EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

[GmwDarkroom]

Intel's latest NUC already has on-chip H.265 decoding:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/intel-broadwell-nuc-mini-pc,review-2688.html

According to Intel, any processor from the higher end Haswells and -- I believe -- all Broadwell CPUs will support H.265 decoding on the IGP via software update.

However it's not isolated to NUCs which are just ultra small form factor PC with a regular low power Intel chip & chipset on board.

 

[jeffa4444]

...
Especially for Dilbert and Neuroanatomist.
H.265 was designed to compliment Rec.2020 (about 4.5X the color space of Rec.709) and to take advantage of computational improvements in dual & quad processing as well as dedicated processing (like the Arm Big / Little processors used in new iPhones & iPads). These also produce less heat and use less power when not under load its simply not true to say parallel processing is less efficient its the exact opposite newer processors reduce errors and have enabled faster readouts and multi-tasking the other advantage is less readout / dark current noise because signals can be reprocessed before writing to cards etc.

Ah, the "lets use Google and post" response.

Video decoding/encoding = load.

Where did you cut/paste that from?

Dilbert you really can be a plank I can see why Neuroanatomist losses his rag with you. Yes I cut that from Wikipedia for quickness but I understand the basis of it because unlike you I sit on committees that decide standards and impliment them globally and work within an international organisation at the highest end of image capture I could go on but its pointless on people like you.

 

[jeffa4444]

...
Especially for Dilbert and Neuroanatomist.
H.265 was designed to compliment Rec.2020 (about 4.5X the color space of Rec.709) and to take advantage of computational improvements in dual & quad processing as well as dedicated processing (like the Arm Big / Little processors used in new iPhones & iPads). These also produce less heat and use less power when not under load its simply not true to say parallel processing is less efficient its the exact opposite newer processors reduce errors and have enabled faster readouts and multi-tasking the other advantage is less readout / dark current noise because signals can be reprocessed before writing to cards etc.

Ah, the "lets use Google and post" response.

Video decoding/encoding = load.

Where did you cut/paste that from?

Dilbert you really can be a plank I can see why Neuroanatomist losses his rag with you. Yes I cut that from Wikipedia for quickness but I understand the basis of it because unlike you I sit on committees that decide standards and impliment them globally and work within an international organisation at the highest end of image capture I could go on but its pointless on people like you.

I've been a part of standards organisations and ... lets just say that what you posted didn't argue against anything I said about h.265 encoding requiring more effort from the CPU and thus producing more heat.

In order to save space (i.e generate smaller files), h.265 is more computationally expensive (requires more CPU) than h.264. Depending on who you ask, H.265 is anywhere from 5x to 100x more computationally expensive than H.264. Note that what you pasted above does not disagree with this. If it is more computationally expensive then it requires more power too.

To do H.265 with maximum efficiency requires hardware support in either the CPU or GPU. Canon cameras combine the two (CPU+GPU) into the one package (the DIGIC chip.)

The logic behind my statement is something like this:

If the 5D4 has DIGIC 7 and doesn't do 4k video then it is likely that DIGIC 7 doesn't have on-chip h.265 and considering that DIGIC 7 is effectively a "family" or "platform", it is unlikely that Canon would have some DIGIC 7 with h.265 and some without, thus meaning no H.265 until at least DIGIC 8 and thus no 4k until at least DIGIC 8.

Whilst the 1DC does 4K with DIGIC 6, the 1DC doesn't produce H.265 output and is rumoured (has anyone posted pics of a 1DC opened up?) to have a changed design due to extra heat from 4k encoding (4x the data rate of 1080p!) Thus it is safe to assume that DIGIC 6 wasn't designed for 4k and hence why no other current Canon DSLR does 4k.

By comparison, Canon DSLRs (5D2 and onwards) that do 1080p produce h.264 video, suggesting that there is hardware capability built in for that.

It depends on when Canon climbed on-board HEVC / H.265 a number of companies now have hardware / software on everything from servers, set-top boxes, video cards etc. that support both H265/H.264 and in one case these chips are not expensive. I dont know whether the DIGIC processors are entirely in-house designed or designed in partnership with SoC suppliers. The other intruging thing is Canon have gone a different route with the XC-10 and the C300MKII both using a Canon XF-AVC codec still utilising H.264 and not compatable with Sony an industry standard by comparison.

 

[pedro]

Anticipated topics on 5d IV:
Should I choose 5d IV over 5d III?
Should I get 5d IV + 7d II vs. 1dx II?
I bought 5d IV and used it for few days but my pictures at 200k ISO still look noisy. Canon screwed its customers again.
5d IV sucks. I hope 5d V will be better, otherwise I switch.

you actually missed one: Should I get 5d IV or wait for the 5DV? 8)

 

[LOALTD]

Enjoying the DIGIC Debate. I don't have a firm grasp on the innner workings of DIGIC processors, but the wiki is interesting:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIGIC


I wasn't aware that the C300 Mk II uses a DIGIC 5 DV


From a raw throughput perspective, the dual DIGIC 6's in the 7D Mk II/5DS/R should easily be able to do H.264 4k at 24p:
50.3MP*5fps = 253 MP/s
8.8MP*24fps = 211.2 MP/s




However, if we look at 4k at 30fps...which many folks love (but I think looks gross):
8.8MP*30fps = 264 MP/s


That's more throughput than the 5DS/R offers. That doesn't necessarily mean it can't be done, though.


Here's some info on the DRIMe V SoC that powers the Samsung NX1 (which does real-time H.265 encoding...the only camera I know of, so far):


http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/09/27/photokina-interview-samsung-NX1-redefine-pro-performance-quantum-leap-tech

 

[vscd]

Sure my point is in the minority, just like wanting a stills only body but my main point was to counter the smugness stone thrown with sensibility. Maybe your so called 'nothing alternative' is a positive one. Less is more.

You're not alone. But it's also funny that you have the same opinion about the videofunction inside actual DSLRs. Maybe we're more or less oldschool photographers, no hipsters with popupflashs, swivel screens or 4k video-nonsense. The only Thing I would like on 4k is to get enough fps for freezing fast motions.

I don't see any sense in a cheap flash which I never use (and I mean never! I carried the analogue EOS5 for 10 years). But I would have to carry the flash around 100% of the time. Users who need such a toy should get a Speedlight and glue it to the Body.

 

[slclick]

Sure my point is in the minority, just like wanting a stills only body but my main point was to counter the smugness stone thrown with sensibility. Maybe your so called 'nothing alternative' is a positive one. Less is more.

You're not alone. But it's also funny that you have the same opinion about the videofunction inside actual DSLRs. Maybe we're more or less oldschool photographers, no hipsters with popupflashs, swivel screens or 4k video-nonsense. The only Thing I would like on 4k is to get enough fps for freezing fast motions.

I don't see any sense in a cheap flash which I never use (and I mean never! I carried the analogue EOS5 for 10 years). But I would have to carry the flash around 100% of the time. Users who need such a toy should get a Speedlight and glue it to the Body.

Funny, I have a EOS 5 as well.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

What are you guys arguing concerning Digic 6/7 and 4K video/h.265?

H.265 encoding? yes that would need new processor support, and yes of course more power. I don't see Canon implementing H.265 anytime soon as there's no current support for it.

Where I come from: even their Cinema line newest products (C300 MKII + XC-10) use a supported H.264 codec.

They're not going to release a 5D now with an HEVC codec, neither do I want them, I don't want to transcode all my footage before editing, in fact I claim that would turn away most professional videographers, and that's why Canon still doesn't do it in their C300 mk II. They clearly see it's not due now (whether they're wrong or right, but I do agree)

With HEVC out of the way,

4K?

It has nothing to do with H.265, there are plenty of cameras shooting 4K compressed to H.264,

-the C300 mk II (XF-AVC)
-the XC-10 (XF-AVC)
-the 1DC (motion Jpeg Mjpeg (not MPEG and not H.264 but not H.265)
-F5/F55 (XAVC)
-FS7 (XAVC)
-GH4 (H.264)
-LX100 (H.264)
-J5 (H.264)
-FZ1000 (H.264)

and many others. In fact the only camera that shoots H.265 is the Samsung NX1 and it's the most hated feature on the otherwise great video camera, it needs lengthy transcoding before even viewing the images not to mention editing and grading. A complete nightmare to anyone who used it, some can tolerate it, most can't.

5D? They don't need H.265 to give us 4K resolution, they can use the Motion-Jpeg codec from the 1Dc to Compact Flash cards, or the XF-AVC from the cinema line (XC10) to CF or CFast cards, it's 205mbps and 305mbps 4:2:2, both can be handled by either...

Anyway a 5D image but sharp would blow away viewers. Just get rid of the softness, either by going 4K or giving very sharp 1080p like the C100 mk II. Both options are both welcome by me. Just get rid of the damn 720p-ish resolution.

 

[editreject]

One thing is for certain. The camera will look exactly like the mock-up in the original post. Copy/Paste.

 

[HighLowISO]

I'm so lucky I'm still shooting a 5DII, and I don't need to worry about any of this video crap. Life is good and simple; to me it will seem like a giant leap in AF which is all I really need, if they drop the weight I'll be grateful. They could have a built in ArcaSwiss plate, that would be sweet. A brighter viewfinder with grid, I'll like that. A bigger buffer for RAW+JPG oh for sure that will be there as the 5DII is way behind. This time I'll be easy to please, I feel sorry for those 5DIII owners

 

[meywd]

I'm so lucky I'm still shooting a 5DII, and I don't need to worry about any of this video crap. Life is good and simple; to me it will seem like a giant leap in AF which is all I really need, if they drop the weight I'll be grateful. They could have a built in ArcaSwiss plate, that would be sweet. A brighter viewfinder with grid, I'll like that. A bigger buffer for RAW+JPG oh for sure that will be there as the 5DII is way behind. This time I'll be easy to please, I feel sorry for those 5DIII owners

I guess that's what owners of the 5D said when the 5DIII came out

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The 5D3 already has Dual Card Slots.

Pop up flash (no, I'm not kidding)

Nooo! Please not. No one really need a popup flash with a lousy Light directly on the cam...

I do - all the time. When I'm on travel, and running around doing a million different things, setting up off camera flashes is simply not an option. So I need an on-camera flash. A 580EX is so large that it displaces a lens. So I carry a little tiny Sunpac to replace the missing pop up. It's a pain, it's fragile, and it's not ready to use when I need it in all cases. The pop up is often just the blip of fill I need and it's way better that the alternative which is nothing at all or a POS little on-camera flash.

+1

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

Right. That's why Nikon doesn't put them on their 5D style cameras, the D750 and D800 series.

Oh wait, they do.

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe, not out of legitimate reasons. They're great for macros, a catch light, a little fill or a shot that you can't possibly get using fast lenses and high ISOs. People who think any flash located anywhere near the lens is useless ought to figure out why professional ring lights exist (I hate them by the way - nasty alien looking ring catch lights in the eyes).

Yes, Nikon does, but Canon doesn't because the Canon crowd will go nuts on them if they do.
Dig into the comments and you'll see a lot of smugness in the viralent anti-popup clamor from many.
None of the reasons you list there have anything to do with why one should not be included on the camera.

And I was actually supporting your prior comment or so I thought, but oh well.

Why is not being an advocate of something low quality considered smug?

I don't know. I just copied over his term, which wasn't really what I had in mind.

 

[mark99]

They need to get it out, Nikon and Sony are pulling so far ahead now, Canon and its drip feed technology have an awful lot of catching up to do.
Cut the big announcements and razzmatazz, when your last in the race, get your head down and concentrate on getting back up the leader-board.

 

[Loswr]

They need to get it out, Nikon and Sony are pulling so far ahead now, Canon and its drip feed technology have an awful lot of catching up to do.
Cut the big announcements and razzmatazz, when your last in the race, get your head down and concentrate on getting back up the leader-board.

Which leader-board are you looking at? :

 

[meywd]

They need to get it out, Nikon and Sony are pulling so far ahead now, Canon and its drip feed technology have an awful lot of catching up to do.
Cut the big announcements and razzmatazz, when your last in the race, get your head down and concentrate on getting back up the leader-board.

Which leader-board are you looking at? :

Don't feed the trolls

 

[JohnBran]

Don't forget about dual card slots and the ability to shoot rainy weddings.

Oh nooo!! 6DII topic was killed with this, dont do it here!
lol ;D ;D ;D

 

[romanr74]

The 5D3 already has Dual Card Slots.

Pop up flash (no, I'm not kidding)

Nooo! Please not. No one really need a popup flash with a lousy Light directly on the cam...

I do - all the time. When I'm on travel, and running around doing a million different things, setting up off camera flashes is simply not an option. So I need an on-camera flash. A 580EX is so large that it displaces a lens. So I carry a little tiny Sunpac to replace the missing pop up. It's a pain, it's fragile, and it's not ready to use when I need it in all cases. The pop up is often just the blip of fill I need and it's way better that the alternative which is nothing at all or a POS little on-camera flash.

+1

it won't get one though because all the faux pros won't be able to look like they think a real pro must look and they'll go ape on Canon if they put one in

Right. That's why Nikon doesn't put them on their 5D style cameras, the D750 and D800 series.

Oh wait, they do.

People who oppose them do so largely out of smugness as you describe, not out of legitimate reasons. They're great for macros, a catch light, a little fill or a shot that you can't possibly get using fast lenses and high ISOs. People who think any flash located anywhere near the lens is useless ought to figure out why professional ring lights exist (I hate them by the way - nasty alien looking ring catch lights in the eyes).

Please no flash. Please no tilting swifeling falling off clumsy breaking apart prone display.

Please RF flash control. Please hybrid viewfinder.

 

[slclick]

Interchangeable focus screens!

 

[Lee Jay]

Sure my point is in the minority, just like wanting a stills only body but my main point was to counter the smugness stone thrown with sensibility. Maybe your so called 'nothing alternative' is a positive one. Less is more.

You're not alone. But it's also funny that you have the same opinion about the videofunction inside actual DSLRs. Maybe we're more or less oldschool photographers, no hipsters with popupflashs, swivel screens or 4k video-nonsense. The only Thing I would like on 4k is to get enough fps for freezing fast motions.

I don't see any sense in a cheap flash which I never use (and I mean never! I carried the analogue EOS5 for 10 years). But I would have to carry the flash around 100% of the time. Users who need such a toy should get a Speedlight and glue it to the Body.

So, by never using it, you really have no idea what it can do.

 

[Don Haines]

The 1DC is part of the Cinema EOS line and not part of the regular DSLR line. When I wrote "No Canon DSLR will do 4K video", I was not including Cinema EOS cameras in that statement.

Come on, dilbert, the 1dc is a 1dx with modified firmware and a larger heatsink, and you know it. Canon write that it's "the first Canon hybrid DSLR to offer onboard 4K motion imaging": http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/cinema_eos_cameras/eos_1d_c

Actually the 1dc was one of the reasons I asked about the importance of the digic number above since it proves you can do 4k right now, though seemingly not with a single digic and it leaves you with a heat problem. But there are more features on digic chips that are used in each and every camera it's in.

Let me rephrase it then:

Well...

If the 5D4 is DIGIC 6 then it won't do 4k.

If the 5D4 is DIGIC 7 then there is a chance it will do 4k. But if it doesn't do 4k and has DIGIC 7 then no Canon DSLR that isn't part of Cinema EOS will do 4K until DIGIC 8 arrives.

So much depends on the compression algorithm being used..... and don't forget that the 1DC shots 4K video and has dual digic 5+......