EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

[Sporgon]

that's ridiculous logic

Tell me, in your opinion, why does Nikon fit the 610, 750 and 810 with a pop up flash ?

 

[slclick]

that's ridiculous logic

Tell me, in your opinion, why does Nikon fit the 610, 750 and 810 with a pop up flash ?

Because Canon doesn't

 

[vscd]

Tell me, in your opinion, why does Nikon fit the 610, 750 and 810 with a pop up flash ?

Because there are a lot people outside who have money but no glue and they buy cams with 20x Zoomrange and popup-flashes. You can get them to buy stuff with a single feature on it and if uncle smith buys a cam for his famliy he surely flashes his selfies and the kiddies on every familyparty.

 

[Marsu42]

Thus, stop complaining and start learning...

Doesn't your internal smug warning pop up if you write something like this? Prey, how much dynamic range do you figure this scene has? If it's well inside Canon's limit, a trained monkey could expose it correctly. But try again at noon, and re-shoot straight into the sun for us, then look at the shadow details again.

 

[Loswr]

Thus, stop complaining and start learning...

Doesn't your internal smug warning pop up if you write something like this? Prey, how much dynamic range do you figure this scene has? If it's well inside Canon's limit, a trained monkey could expose it correctly. But try again at noon, and re-shoot straight into the sun for us, then look at the shadow details again.

Mad dogs and foolish photographers go out in the noon-day sun.

And to your other point, dilbert has been complaining here for years, and he still hasn't how to confirm basic facts before posting.

 

[Don Haines]

Basically the pop-up is nice as an optical master indoors, or for small fill flash as it's very near the optical axis and the drop shadow is smaller than from a large flash on the hotshoe when used w/o bracket.

The drop shadow may be smaller with a popup flash, but the lens/hood shadow with a larger lens... Well, that's just another aspect of its uselesness.

In practice, that's almost never an issue except with ultrawides. Even with the hood on, there's no problem with a lens like the 70-200/2.8 or even the 24-105 in most cases.

Sure, it's 'almost never an issue' when you're talking about using lenses/hoods designed for a FF image circle on a crop sensor camera... The Canon EF-S 17-55mm hood casts a shadow with the popup flash.

Since you're advocating a popup on Canon FF bodies, the 'almost never an issue' logic is flawed. Consider that on Nikon FX bodies, the popup flash causes a shadow with the 24-70mm f/2.8 lens...without the hood.

I guess Canon is so stupid they haven't added a feature they know will cause problems in common use cases, while Nikon is smart enough to know users won't mind a black shadow in their images (or more likely, Nikon FF users are smart enough to know the popup is best used as an optical flash commander and not to light a scene).

As a general rule of thumb.... people with inexpensive cameras also use inexpensive lenses..... People with expensive cameras use expensive lenses....

So, on the inexpensive cameras, the lens blocking the pop-up flash is not much of an issue..... but for those with their expensive cameras and f2.8 (or faster) lenses, it is.

Perhaps that is the real reason for no pop-up flashes on the more expensive cameras...

 

[ishdakuteb]

Thus, stop complaining and start learning...

Doesn't your internal smug warning pop up if you write something like this? Prey, how much dynamic range do you figure this scene has? If it's well inside Canon's limit, a trained monkey could expose it correctly. But try again at noon, and re-shoot straight into the sun for us, then look at the shadow details again.

Mad dogs and foolish photographers go out in the noon-day sun.

And to your other point, dilbert has been complaining here for years, and he still hasn't how to confirm basic facts before posting.

LOL... It was actually in the morning though (at sun-rising time, about a little big pass 8am, opposite side of the Mount Whitney). i did not plan to go there at all, but the large format group leader was trying to talk me into it...

Oh... forget to tell that wet plate people does not like golden hours at all, seem like that to me since i was trying to convince them go there in the next day, cloudy day, but they refused it.

 

[ishdakuteb]

Thus, stop complaining and start learning...

Doesn't your internal smug warning pop up if you write something like this? Prey, how much dynamic range do you figure this scene has? If it's well inside Canon's limit, a trained monkey could expose it correctly. But try again at noon, and re-shoot straight into the sun for us, then look at the shadow details again.

it depends, but i guarantee that dilbert cannot deliver the same image quality even though he has used DSLRs much longer than I do, and I am just start shooting, and learning landscape not even 7 months... i will try your suggestion next time, but what do you do when just shooting sun only? . Sun at noon is on your head which does not include scene. If I can get that one, it is much easier than the shot above... Below image is the one that I shot (Crop alot since I was using 50mm lenses, just practice so why care right. All I care was how much I can get back what I want...), while I was in front of my house, with Canon 30D, which is not bad though (I think it about the same scenario of your high_dr_b.png though, but Canon 30D does not support ML )...

Again, techniques are priority to me...

To answer your question: none of the current camera has enough dynamic range, so work the way out of it... but i am not a big fan of HDR...

Sorry to ask: Are you most of the time expose correctly, even with a black tape cover your LCD? If not, see your above quote about a trained monkey... and yes, you do not have to ask, I expose correctly up to 90% of the time since I have trained my self that way from the day that I decided to choose journalism photography is my favorite, even with on camera flash (No popup flash since I have not trained my self to use pop-up flash)...

 

[candc]

Basically the pop-up is nice as an optical master indoors, or for small fill flash as it's very near the optical axis and the drop shadow is smaller than from a large flash on the hotshoe when used w/o bracket.

The drop shadow may be smaller with a popup flash, but the lens/hood shadow with a larger lens... Well, that's just another aspect of its uselesness.

In practice, that's almost never an issue except with ultrawides. Even with the hood on, there's no problem with a lens like the 70-200/2.8 or even the 24-105 in most cases.

Sure, it's 'almost never an issue' when you're talking about using lenses/hoods designed for a FF image circle on a crop sensor camera... The Canon EF-S 17-55mm hood casts a shadow with the popup flash.

Since you're advocating a popup on Canon FF bodies, the 'almost never an issue' logic is flawed. Consider that on Nikon FX bodies, the popup flash causes a shadow with the 24-70mm f/2.8 lens...without the hood.

I guess Canon is so stupid they haven't added a feature they know will cause problems in common use cases, while Nikon is smart enough to know users won't mind a black shadow in their images (or more likely, Nikon FF users are smart enough to know the popup is best used as an optical flash commander and not to light a scene).

As a general rule of thumb.... people with inexpensive cameras also use inexpensive lenses..... People with expensive cameras use expensive lenses....

So, on the inexpensive cameras, the lens blocking the pop-up flash is not much of an issue..... but for those with their expensive cameras and f2.8 (or faster) lenses, it is.

Perhaps that is the real reason for no pop-up flashes on the more expensive cameras...

That's a good point. It is a bit puzzling why canon decides to put a built in flash on some dslr's and not others. They seem to abide by the aps-c yes ff no rule. I don't think a popup flash is important to the wildlife shooters the 7dii is aimed at but I think it would be nice on the 6d.

 

[Lee Jay]

So, on the inexpensive cameras, the lens blocking the pop-up flash is not much of an issue..... but for those with their expensive cameras and f2.8 (or faster) lenses, it is.

Perhaps that is the real reason for no pop-up flashes on the more expensive cameras...

It isn't blocked by the 35/1.4L. It isn't blocked by the 24-105/4L IS. It isn't blocked by the 70-200/2.8's.

 

[slclick]

I'd like interchangeable focusing screens (again)






anything to break up this idiotic popup flash pingpong

 

[Don Haines]

So, on the inexpensive cameras, the lens blocking the pop-up flash is not much of an issue..... but for those with their expensive cameras and f2.8 (or faster) lenses, it is.

Perhaps that is the real reason for no pop-up flashes on the more expensive cameras...

It isn't blocked by the 35/1.4L. It isn't blocked by the 24-105/4L IS. It isn't blocked by the 70-200/2.8's.

It is a generalization, not an absolute.

 

[Loswr]

So, on the inexpensive cameras, the lens blocking the pop-up flash is not much of an issue..... but for those with their expensive cameras and f2.8 (or faster) lenses, it is.

Perhaps that is the real reason for no pop-up flashes on the more expensive cameras...

It isn't blocked by the 35/1.4L. It isn't blocked by the 24-105/4L IS. It isn't blocked by the 70-200/2.8's.

But it is blocked by the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8. So...what's significantly different about that lens compared to the ones you listed? (Since you seemed to miss this last time, hint: look at the bold part.)

Now...extrapolate that to use of those lenses on a FF camera with a popup flash. Or if that's too hard, talk to some people about those camera you posted pictures of before...

 

[Don Haines]

It is a bit puzzling why canon decides to put a built in flash on some dslr's and not others. They seem to abide by the aps-c yes ff no rule. I don't think a popup flash is important to the wildlife shooters the 7dii is aimed at but I think it would be nice on the 6d.

I agree.

There is also the convenience factor. Very often (at least for me), I just have the camera and a second lens.... the pop-up flash, although far inferior to my real flash, has come in very useful.

 

[Bennymiata]

If you don't want it, don't use it, but I would find a pop-up flash handy to have on my 5d3 from time to time.

 

[Lee Jay]

If you don't want it, don't use it, but I would find a pop-up flash handy to have on my 5d3 from time to time.

Exactly. I don't see why people are against a feature that causes no harm when not in use, and which could come in handy at times.

 

[Lee Jay]

So, on the inexpensive cameras, the lens blocking the pop-up flash is not much of an issue..... but for those with their expensive cameras and f2.8 (or faster) lenses, it is.

Perhaps that is the real reason for no pop-up flashes on the more expensive cameras...

It isn't blocked by the 35/1.4L. It isn't blocked by the 24-105/4L IS. It isn't blocked by the 70-200/2.8's.

But it is blocked by the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8. So...what's significantly different about that lens compared to the ones you listed? (Since you seemed to miss this last time, hint: look at the bold part.)

Now...extrapolate that to use of those lenses on a FF camera with a popup flash. Or if that's too hard, talk to some people about those camera you posted pictures of before...

It isn't blocked by the 17-55 with the hood removed. People are supposed to use their heads.

 

[Loswr]

It isn't blocked by the 17-55 with the hood removed. People are supposed to use their heads.

Yes, they are....but some don't. For example, one of the oft-stated uses of the popup flash is for outdoor fill. Fill is needed when there are shadows on the subject due to the angle of the sun, and many times that means the sun is at an angle where it's likeky to cause flare. The hood is designed to prevent that flare, but if one removes it so the flash isn't blocked...

Oh, wait...now I get it. You mean people should stick their heads in front of the lens to block the flare after removing the hood to avoid the shadow from the popup flash.

 

[3kramd5]

If you don't want it, don't use it, but I would find a pop-up flash handy to have on my 5d3 from time to time.

Exactly. I don't see why people are against a feature that causes no harm when not in use, and which could come in handy at times.

Personally, I couldn't care less, but can you say with certainty that Canon wouldn't have to design compromise on the prism design (as the white paper suggests) to include one? If not, the 'causes no harm when not in use' is not a given.

 

[Don Haines]

It isn't blocked by the 17-55 with the hood removed. People are supposed to use their heads.

Yes, they are....but some don't. For example, one of the oft-stated uses of the popup flash is for outdoor fill. Fill is needed when there are shadows on the subject due to the angle of the sun, and many times that means the sun is at an angle where it's likeky to cause flare. The hood is designed to prevent that flare, but if one removes it so the flash isn't blocked...

Oh, wait...now I get it. You mean people should stick their heads in front of the lens to block the flare after removing the hood to avoid the shadow from the popup flash.

Neuro, you obviously don't understand

Flashes are only for use indoors... and indoors you don't need lens hoods...

No real photographer uses fill flash as that would be altering the lighting conditions and therefore un-natural.... do that and your pictures will be banned from National Geographic ....