EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

How could anyone in the market for a 5d think that a pop-up flash is an acceptable way to light a scene? It looks terrible. Fill light, blah, blah, blah. It's garbage, and I've never seen a working photographer use one or suggest he/she needed one. Not to mention, it makes weather sealing more difficult.
 
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tron said:
100 said:
neuroanatomist said:
dak723 said:
There are no logical reasons that a camera has no built in flash.

Several have been presented in this thread. For example, is it logical to include a feature that doesn't work properly with several lenses?


Autofocus doesn't work properly with TS-E lenses or the MP-E 65 for instance, with that kind of logic we should leave AF out too.
This logic is flawed since the correct would be to say that AF is not supported on these lenses. Doesn't work properly implies it works somehow but not 100 correctly...

Also by the use of manual focusing we can get results. Something similar cannot be said for lenses that block the on-camera flash...

You get focus confirmation of the TS-E 24 for instance, so it does work to some extent, but that’s beside the point. My point was that neuroanatomists argument (presented in the form of a question) isn’t a logical one to begin with.

A popup flash doesn’t have to work perfect with all lenses to be a useful addition on a camera. Canon will have to redesign their non-popup flash cameras to fit one in so I can understand that they will not do that unless enough of their pro-users want them to do so, which is probably not the case.
 
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Lee Jay said:
Even a 580EX or 600RT doesn't properly illuminate the scene for an 11-24 or an 8-15 without a Stoffen diffuser or similar.

So, maybe they should stop making those flashes as well.

The popup on a crop body can't properly illuminate the scene for a 10-22 or 10-18. As such, this argument is irrelevant as those bodies have a popup flash.

Your argument is specious.

The difference is that the flashes have a specified area of coverage based on lens focal length. Both the popup flash and external Speedlites provide coverage for a 35mm AoV. As you saw demonstrated earlier in this thread, the 35/1.4L does not work properly with the popup flash, but I suspect the 35/2 IS would work properly.

Issues like that occur but are rare with crop bodies, but would be far more common if Canon were to put popup flashes on FF bodies.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
Lee Jay said:
Even a 580EX or 600RT doesn't properly illuminate the scene for an 11-24 or an 8-15 without a Stoffen diffuser or similar.

So, maybe they should stop making those flashes as well.

The popup on a crop body can't properly illuminate the scene for a 10-22 or 10-18. As such, this argument is irrelevant as those bodies have a popup flash.

Your argument is specious.

The difference is that the flashes have a specified area of coverage based on lens focal length. Both the popup flash and external Speedlites provide coverage for a 35mm AoV. As you saw demonstrated earlier in this thread, the 35/1.4L does not work properly with the popup flash, but I suspect the 35/2 IS would work properly.

Issues like that occur but are rare with crop bodies, but would be far more common if Canon were to put popup flashes on FF bodies.
+1, The pic I posted earlier was shot with a 35L and 60D. On full frame the issue would be more apparent.
 
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I was considering adding 7D Mk II as a second body to my 6D because of its terrible AF system but with arrival of 5D Mk IV, the Mk III could get much cheaper + there will be a lot of used ones. I could even consider selling 6D and go straight for 5D Mk IV but only if 5D Mk IV brings features which would cover all my expectations.

What I would like to see in 5D Mk IV? Honestly I don't care about more mega pixels, flash, video features, etc. I care about still photography performance, AF and connectivity features. That means give me a better sensor and AF than 5D Mk III + features like GPS, WiFi and maybe even Bluetooth for remote triggers and I will be very happy. I believe it will have at least GPS because it is already present in 7D Mk II with similar body.
 
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Marsu42 said:
Not so, I don't live near the equator and unless it's high summer time the sun is never that high. And I I like uwa shots, so often the sun is in the frame or near the frame's edge.

Such a great area for landscape... However, most landscape photographers that I know do not shoot during high noon (out in the field. see below links for more details), except black and white landscape photgraphers who always look for high contrast light/scenes (hints might be found in number of book for example, Ansel Adams in Color)

Marsu42 said:
Your tree leaves example shot shows that a higher sun doesn't necessarily exceed Canon's dr range, but often it does even with proper exposure - with Magic Lantern's raw histogram, it's easy enough to check

I do not use ML, not on my 7D and not even on my 5D Mark III...

Marsu42 said:
In my experience, the difference between Canon 11-ish dr and Sonikon or dual_iso 14-ish dr does make a difference for real world shooting, it's just the difference between clipped sky or not with sufficient detail in backlit subjects (with using a little fill flash).

Of course shooting with 14ev often does give you a hdr-ish look, so if you don't like that at all Canon's dr limit probably won't matter a lot to you.

DR never enough when shooting under high contrast light/scenes and none of current modern camera can handle it; therefore, I am okay with what I am having right now...

See link more information (written by a reknown medium format photographer that I have known, like I say, I do not just keep track of American phographers.)

http://www.brucepercy.co.uk/blog/2013/08/08/do-we-really-need-high-dynamic-range

Marsu42 said:
Well, no, but in my defense I have to say vs. my old 60d I find the 6d's metering is rather dodgy. But as I'm shooting moving animals a lot can expose ok on the first shot, but need a second shot after viewing the raw histogram to ettr and not clip more than I want.

If you can really get a sunset shot ettr'ed perfectly the first time (as the sun's core is always clipped) or have trained to much you can guess manual exposure all the time, kudos to you ... though you cannot expect everybody else to perform at that level.

Btw personally I don't find having more margin for error a bad thing (either via more mp for cropping/rotating or mp for correcting exposure), and as a consumer it's absolutely ok to voice that preference.

I do not shoot animals, so I can not tell anything about it. But every single scene, most of the time, has a different metering number even though you camera has just moved only couples inches. Some photographers prefer shooting animals/wildlife in Av mode, some prefer manual mode and I am one of these people since manual mode does help in maintaining the same exposures when moving my camera from one to another angles... just make sure that animal do not either:
1. run into a dark scene from a bright scene, or
2. run into a bright scene from a dark scene

I will and always use Av mode when I am moving all the time (within couple minutes) from a bight to dark areas, or vice versa, same mode will be used for a cherry farm in a sunny and windy day (Flash definitely a big help under this situation.). However, different people have different of using cameras, just use it in a way that help you to deliver good images.

I first target journalism and like the way of handling lights by Cliff M... therefore, I decided to learn how to get a right exposure from started dates, ignoring about everything else, including post process... When capturing moment, I normally do not chimp at LCD, simply because I will likely to miss moments when chimping. In short, learning light is fun but also pain...
 
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If cost were a problem then why is it absent on Canon's most expensive DSLRs yet present on its cheapest DSLRs?

No total cost, but whatever the body will cost, a flash will cost a few bucks more on top.

I don't know about you, but I don't buy a camera for its looks.

I do. If you ever recognized the clean head of an EOS1 you think that the D810 is ugly like hell. (It's great cam by the way).

Difficult prism design? Many many cameras from Canon have had inbuilt flashes. I'm pretty sure Canon can handle a design with that now.

Did you ever ask yourself why there is a lot of premium price for a 100% Viewfinder? On APS-C even 95% is something nice but on fullframe most bodies miss the full view...

Putting a flash on APS-C is even easier with the small viewhole.

Actually, the battery thing is one aspect of a popup flash that I really like.

Nice, I feel the opposite.

Some light is better than no light and if it isn't good enough for you then you can buy a better one.

You can also buy a better one, it's called 90EX.

I might add that the majority of Canon camera buyers (who buy rebels, etc), rarely seem to buy flashes so this would appear to be a subjective rating and that it is "good enough" for a lot of people.

Then use a rebel.

My camera bag is already full, where should I put this extra thing?

Did you ever see a 90EX? If it doesn't fit in your pocket you should think about your packingskills.
 
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which image is with the pop-up flash and which image is with a 600EX-RT?

and today's tip is to put a Kleenex tissue in front of your flash to soften the light.... works on expensive flashes and pop-ups....
 

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If you aren't happy with your Canon camera, then please get another camera. Their are so many choices out there. Put yourself out of your misery and make the switch - please! Certainly you must realize that anyone so unhappy with their equipment who continues to use it, looks like an idiot or a person who would rather than complain than have what they want.

It could be a fun place to be - here in the forum - but it is not. Sorry for the interruption. Please continue with the inane arguments and constant complaining about your wonderful cameras.

Nice words, but don't you make the same whining about the gear as you blame the others on? Some want a flash on fullframebodies, others don't. Actually there is none, let's keep it that way.

There will be no solution between both sides, I guess. I don't want to carry stupid circuits 100% of the time just because some people need them once or twice in their lifetime. As Canon sometimes reads on forum I please them NOT TO INCLUDE SUCH STUPID THINGS. I think everything is said. ;D
 
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Don Haines said:
which image is with the pop-up flash and which image is with a 600EX-RT?

and today's tip is to put a Kleenex tissue in front of your flash to soften the light.... works on expensive flashes and pop-ups....

The first is clearly taken with pop up because the cat is looking up as if to say "where did that pop up from"?

Glad to see we're now getting down to serious business - the cat pictures are out :D
 
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Sporgon said:
Don Haines said:
which image is with the pop-up flash and which image is with a 600EX-RT?

and today's tip is to put a Kleenex tissue in front of your flash to soften the light.... works on expensive flashes and pop-ups....

The first is clearly taken with pop up because the cat is looking up as if to say "where did that pop up from"?

Glad to see we're now getting down to serious business - the cat pictures are out :D
I would have done squirrels, but I have no flash photos of squirrels and it's raining out real hard.... I can always go outside with a well sealed camera and lens and use an umbrella to shield things from the rain..... but all that would prove is that the squirrels are smarter than me.... they are in their cosy dry nests.
 
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kphoto99 said:
Don Haines said:
which image is with the pop-up flash and which image is with a 600EX-RT?

and today's tip is to put a Kleenex tissue in front of your flash to soften the light.... works on expensive flashes and pop-ups....
My guess is the first one is a pop up and the second one is 600EX-RT

same guess, by the size and color of the flash ;D
 
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Don Haines said:
and today's tip is to put a Kleenex tissue in front of your flash to soften the light.... works on expensive flashes and pop-ups....

Colored tissue = instant flash gel. You know how with some brands of tissues, the last few are orangish to indicate the box is nearly empty? Boom – CTO to balance tungsten.

:)
 
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privatebydesign said:
First is popup with tissue, second is naked 600-EX-RT.

Both prove beyond doubt that direct flash, either from a 'free' popup or $450 top of the line hotshoe flash, is horrible.

And if you're out-doors? Bounce is a little tough off the moon because of the two and a half second delay.
 
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