EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

[andrewflo]

As far as the argument that a lens hood block light, the solution would be to have an articulating/telescoping popup that goes higher. The great engineers at Canon should be able to solve that easily.

I've always thought how useful it might be to have a pop up flash that can articulate and bounce. Yes it would never match the usefulness of a Speedlite, but it'd be a nice option for casual captures.

But potentially eliminating the need to buy a Speedlite for casual use by making a bounceable pop up flash, in the eyes of Canon, obviously makes this idea not likely to a get a high R&D budget.

 

[Loswr]

As far as the argument that a lens hood block light, the solution would be to have an articulating/telescoping popup that goes higher. The great engineers at Canon should be able to solve that easily.

I've always thought how useful it might be to have a pop up flash that can articulate and bounce. Yes it would never match the usefulness of a Speedlite, but it'd be a nice option for casual captures.

But potentially eliminating the need to buy a Speedlite for casual use by making a bounceable pop up flash, in the eyes of Canon, obviously makes this idea not likely to a get a high R&D budget.

FWIW, the popup flash on the EOS M3 can be pointed upward for bounce flash.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4715674623/hands-on-with-canon-eos-m3

 

[andrewflo]

As far as the argument that a lens hood block light, the solution would be to have an articulating/telescoping popup that goes higher. The great engineers at Canon should be able to solve that easily.

I've always thought how useful it might be to have a pop up flash that can articulate and bounce. Yes it would never match the usefulness of a Speedlite, but it'd be a nice option for casual captures.

But potentially eliminating the need to buy a Speedlite for casual use by making a bounceable pop up flash, in the eyes of Canon, obviously makes this idea not likely to a get a high R&D budget.

FWIW, the popup flash on the EOS M3 can be pointed upward for bounce flash.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4715674623/hands-on-with-canon-eos-m3

You're absolutely right I was lucky enough to pick one up when I visited Japan a few weeks ago and decided to upgrade from the M to the M3 for this reason largely (among many of course).

I do have to admit that the bounce is too weak in anything but a small room with white ceilings but it's a great option to have built right into the tiny body.

Also, with the compactness of the M3 and the EVF using the hotshoe, I wonder if Canon would have a different thought towards giving the M3 a bounceable pop up flash as compared to giving one to the pro DSLR body.

 

[benperrin]

It's a highly useful tool for those enamored of the 'deer in the headlights' look.

Bahaha. Hilarious.

It's a highly useful tool that many don't seem to have a clue as to how to use.

I really don't see how you can say that just because people don't use it is equal to people not knowing how to use it. I made this point awhile ago but I think it's worth restating it. There are 3 different areas that highly influence the look of light. 1. Quantity 2. Quality 3. Direction. You could also say that temperature is another. My issue is that a popup flash will only ever deal with number 1 (quantity). You can add more light into the scene but you can't change the direction or quality without adding modifiers which defeat the purpose of the popup flash. This is why the popup flash is not considered a professional feature and is my guess as to why it isn't included on cameras like the 1dx and the 5ds.

Now I understand why you want it on those cameras but I just don't think it's ever going to happen. Hence the debate is really kinda pointless when you think about it. Just my take on it. Of course you have different needs from your gear than I probably do so you are more than welcome to raise your point of view. Just don't assume that people don't like the popup flash because they don't know how to use it.

Have a good day,
Ben

 

[Lee Jay]

I really don't see how you can say that just because people don't use it is equal to people not knowing how to use it. I made this point awhile ago but I think it's worth restating it. There are 3 different areas that highly influence the look of light. 1. Quantity 2. Quality 3. Direction. You could also say that temperature is another. My issue is that a popup flash will only ever deal with number 1 (quantity). You can add more light into the scene but you can't change the direction or quality without adding modifiers which defeat the purpose of the popup flash.

This is flat false, and why I said people don't know how to use it.

Let's say the light is coming straight from the side. Adding a little flash from the front effectively rotates the side light slightly to the front. If the front light is as powerful as the side light, it rotates it to about 45 degrees from the front. If it's double the power of the side light, it effectively rotates it more toward the front.

The purpose of a flash is NOT TO ADD LIGHT QUANTITY TO A SCENE. If you use it that way, you are doing it wrong. Oh sure, this can be done in a pinch just to get a shot, but that's generally going to result in lousy shots.

The purpose of a flash is to help control scene contrast. It can also control angle, color and diffusion, and a popup flash, used properly, can do all of these.

 

[meywd]

I really don't see how you can say that just because people don't use it is equal to people not knowing how to use it. I made this point awhile ago but I think it's worth restating it. There are 3 different areas that highly influence the look of light. 1. Quantity 2. Quality 3. Direction. You could also say that temperature is another. My issue is that a popup flash will only ever deal with number 1 (quantity). You can add more light into the scene but you can't change the direction or quality without adding modifiers which defeat the purpose of the popup flash.

This is flat false, and why I said people don't know how to use it.

Let's say the light is coming straight from the side. Adding a little flash from the front effectively rotates the side light slightly to the front. If the front light is as powerful as the side light, it rotates it to about 45 degrees from the front. If it's double the power of the side light, it effectively rotates it more toward the front.

The purpose of a flash is NOT TO ADD LIGHT QUANTITY TO A SCENE. If you use it that way, you are doing it wrong. Oh sure, this can be done in a pinch just to get a shot, but that's generally going to result in lousy shots.

The purpose of a flash is to help control scene contrast. It can also control angle, color and diffusion, and a popup flash, used properly, can do all of these.

and why use the pop up flash to make it @ 45 degrees while you can position the external flash @ 45 degrees from the start

 

[benperrin]

This is flat false, and why I said people don't know how to use it.

Let's say the light is coming straight from the side. Adding a little flash from the front effectively rotates the side light slightly to the front. If the front light is as powerful as the side light, it rotates it to about 45 degrees from the front. If it's double the power of the side light, it effectively rotates it more toward the front.

The purpose of a flash is NOT TO ADD LIGHT QUANTITY TO A SCENE. If you use it that way, you are doing it wrong. Oh sure, this can be done in a pinch just to get a shot, but that's generally going to result in lousy shots.

The purpose of a flash is to help control scene contrast. It can also control angle, color and diffusion, and a popup flash, used properly, can do all of these.

The purpose of a flash is to add quantity to a scene. Even if you are using it for fill you are adding light that wasn't there before hence quantity. Notice that I never said you had to overpower a subject with flash. I fully understand the value of fill flash.

Yes I agree that a flash can be used to control the contrast of a scene. However it can not change angle, only add light on axis. It does not 'rotate' the light. The best practice will always be to take the light source off the camera to control light direction and quality by using a modifier. However, if you are happy with the results of a popup flash then more power to you. Many are not. Like I said it's all pointless anyway as Canon will make the correct call by not adding a popup flash on the next 5d. If you don't like it you don't have to buy it, it's that simple.

 

[Don Haines]

It's a highly useful tool for those enamored of the 'deer in the headlights' look.

You can also use a pop-up flash on safari to take pictures of lions at night. The lower power of the pop-up flash can be compensated for with stealth..... Just creep up close to the sleeping lion, pop up the flash, and press the shutter..... It's foolproof.... what could possibly go wrong...

 

[privatebydesign]

I really don't see how you can say that just because people don't use it is equal to people not knowing how to use it. I made this point awhile ago but I think it's worth restating it. There are 3 different areas that highly influence the look of light. 1. Quantity 2. Quality 3. Direction. You could also say that temperature is another. My issue is that a popup flash will only ever deal with number 1 (quantity). You can add more light into the scene but you can't change the direction or quality without adding modifiers which defeat the purpose of the popup flash.

This is flat false, and why I said people don't know how to use it.

Let's say the light is coming straight from the side. Adding a little flash from the front effectively rotates the side light slightly to the front. If the front light is as powerful as the side light, it rotates it to about 45 degrees from the front. If it's double the power of the side light, it effectively rotates it more toward the front.

The purpose of a flash is NOT TO ADD LIGHT QUANTITY TO A SCENE. If you use it that way, you are doing it wrong. Oh sure, this can be done in a pinch just to get a shot, but that's generally going to result in lousy shots.

The purpose of a flash is to help control scene contrast. It can also control angle, color and diffusion, and a popup flash, used properly, can do all of these.

That is such a bad and inaccurate reply it is laughable.

Light just doesn't behave like that, two light sources are two light sources, they create their own shadows and their own issues, they are not the same as one light source in a different place.

 

[Loswr]

Silly me, I thought solutions of chiral molecules rotated light, but it turns out a popup flash can do it, too. Kewl, you learn something new every day!

 

[Don Haines]

Let's say the light is coming straight from the side. Adding a little flash from the front effectively rotates the side light slightly to the front. If the front light is as powerful as the side light, it rotates it to about 45 degrees from the front.

WOW! I did not know that photons behaved as vectors.... gotta let the optics researchers at work know about this one!

 

[ishdakuteb]

"turn down the contrast between the shadow of their face and the rest of the scene."

ah... ic... that how you have been using your flash for, no wonder... lol

question: mine to let me see your "LOW contrast subject and LOW contrast scene" image? it might be a feature article on petapixel or fstoppers about using flash someday, who knows ;D

 

[ishdakuteb]

"turn down the contrast between the shadow of their face and the rest of the scene."

ah... ic... that how you have been using your flash for, no wonder... lol

question: mine to let me see your "LOW contrast subject and LOW contrast scene" image? it might be a feature article on petapixel or fstoppers about using flash someday, who knows ;D

Yes, use the flash to reduce the DR of the scene to something that the Canon camera can capture.

no, i do not use it that way... you want to see mine again? i already posted in this forum couple images... or you want to see new one? if you want to see a new one, let me see yours... lol...

promise that i will ask my daughter to be my subject to increase DR with using flash, and the new image shot with flash is just for you to see it, and also promise that "on camera flash without any diffuser or softbox, which means bare flash... without flash looking"..

note: you already stated that canon is low dr, so using flash to low down dynamic range more that mean a greater chance to blow out highlight when shooting backlit? pretty smart use huh

 

[Lee Jay]

Silly me, I thought solutions of chiral molecules rotated light, but it turns out a popup flash can do it, too. Kewl, you learn something new every day!

Congratulations... You've reminded me of the phrase "breathtaking inanity".

 

[romanr74]

hmmm...

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Meanwhile...in another galaxy...some 5DIII users are still using their current gear and shooting great landscapes using time tested techniques for expanding DR and controlling contrast:

Canon 5DIII, 16-35IIL @31mm f22 @ 1/5th sec @ iso 200

A three shot exposure blend, merged in photoshop.

 

[Loswr]

I'm just following your lead.

Feel free to point out factual errors that I've posted, where I have not acknowledged my error when it was pointed out.

You never acknowledge your errors, you just go quiet and disappear.

So...no, you apparently can't point out such an example, but you're quite willing to post yet another factual error of your own to toss on the ever-growing pile.

I even have the courtesy to acknowledge my errors when you are the one pointing them out (link).

So...who went quiet and disappeared?

Go find your post where you said that all of Canon's L series lenses have autofocus.

I find no such post, would you mind providing a link (as you'll notice I did)?

By the way, did you notice another recent admission of error, even though the mistake was from a three years ago and it was not a mistake based on the information readily available at the time. Still waiting for you to acknowledge some of your mistakes...

 

[Don Haines]

Meanwhile...in another galaxy...some 5DIII users are still using their current gear and shooting great landscapes using time tested techniques for expanding DR and controlling contrast:

Canon 5DIII, 16-35IIL @31mm f22 @ 1/5th sec @ iso 200

A three shot exposure blend, merged in photoshop.

Despite not having the 21839 stops of DR required to capture the shadows and the sun, it's a nice picture

 

[Marsu42]

Meanwhile...in another galaxy...some 5DIII users are still using their current gear and shooting great landscapes using time tested techniques for expanding DR and controlling contrast

Um, what's the time-tested method for correct hdr merging if there's a horse or other animal running through this scene? It's not like anyone is disputing bracketing works just fine for static scenes and even grass or leaves movement often doesn't show a lot.

 

[Loswr]

Meanwhile...in another galaxy...some 5DIII users are still using their current gear and shooting great landscapes using time tested techniques for expanding DR and controlling contrast:

Canon 5DIII, 16-35IIL @31mm f22 @ 1/5th sec @ iso 200

A three shot exposure blend, merged in photoshop.

Despite not having the 21839 stops of DR required to capture the shadows and the sun, it's a nice picture

You're welcome to your opinion. It's a good try, but the bark on the trees facing the camera is far too dark with too little detail. Those shadows really need a lot of lifting, and that's where Canon's poor IQ really limits creativity. Sure, you could try blending 10+ exposures, but there's still no way to make this image truly Exmortastic. As it is, the image is far too natural-looking.