EOS 6D Mark II to Move Upmarket? [CR1]

[Canon Rumors]

<p>We’re told that Canon hasn’t been fully satisfied with the sales of the Canon EOS 6D, a camera which I personally love for its size and simplicity. We’re told that the next iteration of the camera is likely to move upmarket in features and pricing. As it sits, there’s about a $1500 difference between the EOS 6D and the EOS 5D Mark III.</p>
<p>I think most people would rather see a $1499 full frame camera, but Canon seems to be marketing the EOS 7D Mark II on par with the 6D as far as image quality goes, so that might drive the 6D upwards, which in turn could also move the next EOS 5D body up as well. This is the opposite of where I saw things going, but increasing margins to offset decreasing sales numbers is good business.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/canonproducttree.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-17591" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/canonproducttree.jpg" alt="canonproducttree" width="570" height="367" /></a></p>
<p>Check out a four part interview with the developers of the Canon EOS 7D Mark II: <a href="http://www.canon-asia.com/snapshot/category/products-review/eos-7d-mark-ii-developers-interview/" target="_blank">Canon 7D Mark II Developer Interview</a></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[tomscott]

So basically making entry level FF in the canon camp less accessible… Yet you can buy FF mirrorless cameras for less than £1000… Should be coming down not up.

 

[Marsu42]

I think most people would rather see a $1499 full frame camera, but Canon seems to be marketing the EOS 7D Mark II on par with the 6D as far as image quality goes, so that might drive the 6D upwards, which in turn could also move the next EOS 5D body up as well.

Agreed, that sounds just like Canon, they like to have a straight model lineup and an overlap crop/ff is bound to "confuse" customers and prevents them from being upsold to the next, "better" model. And if Canon are happy with the current 6d sales, it means less expensive Nikon/Sony models with more features don't hurt them.

This in itself doesn't mean anything about the 6d2 release though, I'd be surprised if they'd upgrade the 6d1 before releasing a 5d4.

 

[janhalasa]

I think it's quite logical move - they will release 5Dmk4 and it will be easy to buy a 5Dmk3 for a good price. But Canon wants people to buy new cameras, not used ones. So they must make 6Dmk2 comparable with the current 5Dmk3. In the same was as the current 6D is comparable with 5Dmk2.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

The problem the 6D has had (in my opinion) is that it's a reverted to a classic 5D formula. While the 5D went up in the specs, the 6D inherited the 5D's old formula. Top tier chip performance, slow fps and an old camera design with a really old AF specs. There's little on paper to wow a purchaser, although sadly it's far more capable that many have given credit for.
When I heard the rumours for the 5DIII and 6D, I was expecting the 6D to be called the 5DIII and a direct replacement, ie cost conscious, low spec but great performance. While the other camera, a high spec mini 1Dx would have been called a 5Dx. But they didn't and we have what we have. The 5DIII is closer to a 1DX than it is to the 5DII or 6D.

 

[gsealy]

Reading all the rumours here and thinking between the lines it seems as though Canon might move the 1D and 5D into the higher MP range, likely 35 MP and possibly 50 MP. Also it seems that on the video side of things that those cameras would support 4K. So we are talking around $4-4.5K for the 5D, and who knows for the 1D. This would create space between those cameras and the 7DII, which the 6D could fit into.

Given the current feature set of the 7DII, I would definitely favor it over the 6D. The 7DII seems to be a very versatile, rugged camera and could be the staple, 'go-to' camera for anyone's bag. With a 200K shutter count you could take shots for a very long time.

 

[Lee Jay]

If the 6D is a full-frame 60D, making the 6DII a full-frame 70D doesn't seem unreasonable, and that would be a pretty significant improvement. The 5DIV should then be a full-frame 7D2.

 

[kphoto99]

So basically Canon will tell it's crop users that want to move to FF to look at other brands (like the D750), since new lenses have to be bought anyways.
Great job Canon.

 

[Steve Balcombe]

If the 6D is a full-frame 60D, making the 6DII a full-frame 70D doesn't seem unreasonable, and that would be a pretty significant improvement. The 5DIV should then be a full-frame 7D2.

This seems by far the most likely prospect, but personally I would prefer to see a 6DII with a 50D-style body. (And since the 50D worked just fine with no buttons on the left, it could have an articulated screen...)

 

[WoodyWindy]

I don't think that chart represents a move upmarket, as much as it shows where Canon really thinks the 6D fits into the grand scheme of things. (as if the name didn't already say that...)

That said, it only makes sense that a 6D II would have improved specifications across the board. It would be silly if it didn't at least match the operational specifications of whatever xxxD camera happens to be current at the time. But probably no price increase at the MSRP level. (Street price would, of course, initially be higher...)

 

[Coldhands]

So basically Canon will tell it's crop users that want to move to FF to look at other brands (like the D750)

How so? Are you already assuming that a future 6DII will be uncompetitive when it debuts?

Also, I know many users of APS-C bodies that own one or more EF lenses (myself included) which provides a good incentive to remain with Canon.

 

[pierlux]

So, if the 6D moves upwards in specs and price, it is going to be positioned approximately where the 5D3 is now. Since the 7D2 will surely eat part of the current 5D3 market, and if the future 5D4 possibly goes Hi-MP, then there will be room for a new entry level FF... I mean, something equivalent to the Rebel line, but FF. What do you guys think, is it realistic a possible lineup with 4 FF and 4 APS-C dSLRs for all demands and all wallets?

edit: actually, there are 5 APS-C dSLRs currently available, I forgot the 100D.

 

[YuengLinger]

I thought from the first that the crippled AF of the 6D made it a misfire. Despite the chorus of defenders, Canon agrees! Its AF was inferior to that of the 60D, for cryin' out loud.

 

[Chaitanya]

I would rather like to see 6D upgrade exactly where it was when it was launched. IQ is really good and but af system sucks big time. Maybe at next iteration Canon should add touch screen, dp af, wider af array and tilting screen.

 

[Lee Jay]

Just come out with them already. I'd love to see both the 6D and 5DIII replacements announced by spring and available by summer.

 

[Lee Jay]

...Canon seems to be marketing the EOS 7D Mark II on par with the 6D as far as image quality goes...

Where does it say anything about image quality on the chart? The 6D is obviously NOT marketed to be the same image quality as the 7DII or they'd have the same ISO range, which they don't.

The 6D has much better image quality than the 7DII when both can frame the same. The 7DII has far superior focusing performance in both stills and video, and a better body. Pick your poison.

 

[unfocused]

We’re told that Canon hasn’t been fully satisfied with the sales of the Canon EOS 6D...

I seriously doubt if Canon has been disappointed with the sales of the 6D. The 6D is almost certainly the best-selling full frame camera on the market today. Certainly has outsold the D600/610.

Either Canon has unrealistic expectations or whomever is "telling" CR guy that Canon is disappointed doesn't know what he or she is talking about.

That said, I can see Canon placing a new full-frame in the lineup between the current 6D and the 5DII. There is a lot of space in there for a D750 competitor. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 6DII that goes up in price, features and build to hit that $2,500 mark and then a new model that is closer in features to the original 6D (8D??) come in at around $1,500.

Feature and price creep is always a dilemma for any manufacturer. Look at cars. Manufacturers always start out with a budget car and then, in order make it "new" each season they have to add features and cost. Eventually, the budget car become a mid-level car and they have to start over with a new budget model.

The 6DII has to be better than the 6D, but that means it gets closer in features to the 5DIII. The 5DIV has to have better features than the 5DIII, but that encroaches on the 1DX. It's a never-ending battle to keep refreshing models while keeping the "budget" version available. It's further complicated now that the technology has matured and the pace of change is slowing down.

It's a myth to think that Canon would be concerned about a stripped-down full frame camera stealing sales from the 7DII (or a 7DII stealing sales from a stripped-down full frame camera). Two different cameras, two different markets and either way, Canon gets your money.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I personally think that the 6D is just fine where it is, the issue may be that consumers think there is something wrong because it sells for less. Bring the 5D III to $2500 and adding a 3D at $3600-$4000 makes more sense.

If I did not already have the 5D MK III, I'd probably have bought a 6D, since it does what I need. I bought a 5D Classic on a whim for $350 recently, it is a great camera too.

I had a D800, but my Dell i7 based pc could not reasonably handle the large noisy files. Now I'm a couple of generations newer, and the large files are not a issue, so I'll be looking at large MP cameras but really am not in need of one.

 

[kphoto99]

We’re told that Canon hasn’t been fully satisfied with the sales of the Canon EOS 6D...

I seriously doubt if Canon has been disappointed with the sales of the 6D. The 6D is almost certainly the best-selling full frame camera on the market today. Certainly has outsold the D600/610.

Either Canon has unrealistic expectations or whomever is "telling" CR guy that Canon is disappointed doesn't know what he or she is talking about.

That said, I can see Canon placing a new full-frame in the lineup between the current 6D and the 5DII. There is a lot of space in there for a D750 competitor. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 6DII that goes up in price, features and build to hit that $2,500 mark and then a new model that is closer in features to the original 6D (8D??) come in at around $1,500.

Feature and price creep is always a dilemma for any manufacturer. Look at cars. Manufacturers always start out with a budget car and then, in order make it "new" each season they have to add features and cost. Eventually, the budget car become a mid-level car and they have to start over with a new budget model.

The 6DII has to be better than the 6D, but that means it gets closer in features to the 5DIII. The 5DIV has to have better features than the 5DIII, but that encroaches on the 1DX. It's a never-ending battle to keep refreshing models while keeping the "budget" version available. It's further complicated now that the technology has matured and the pace of change is slowing down.

It's a myth to think that Canon would be concerned about a stripped-down full frame camera stealing sales from the 7DII (or a 7DII stealing sales from a stripped-down full frame camera). Two different cameras, two different markets and either way, Canon gets your money.

As a counter argument, look at the Rebel (t2i->t5i), features have been going up (not for image quality improvements), but the price has been creeping down.

 

[andrewflo]

If the 6D is a full-frame 60D, making the 6DII a full-frame 70D doesn't seem unreasonable, and that would be a pretty significant improvement. The 5DIV should then be a full-frame 7D2.

This seems reasonable to me. I originally purchased my 6D because of the low-cost FF prospect. But I've grown to love the extra little features it has over the 5DIII, namely WiFi and -3EV center point focusing. Not that these features are "non-professional" but I think it's pretty clear the 6D was targeted at enthusiasts similar to the 70D. A full frame 70D would be even better in mind.

However, if the 5DIV shot 4K and the 6DII did not, I couldn't consider a 6DII.