EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR2]

[M.ST]

If I loook at the products Canon introduced during the last few years almost all of them are far away from that what customers want to buy.

Canon is now loosing a lot of customers. No new lenses long awaited lenses, no 7D Mark II, now 1Ds Mark III replacement, no bigger megapixel camera etc.

I make the decision to stop all orders for Canon products. It´s a shame what Canon is doing. If the Canon guys wake up and bring a real 1Ds Mark III replacement and the wanted lenses on the market I decide to buy them.

Actually I use up to 95 percent products from Hasselblad and Leica.

 

[Loswr]

If I loook at the products Canon introduced during the last few years almost all of them are far away from that what customers want to buy.

Canon is now loosing a lot of customers. No new lenses long awaited lenses, no 7D Mark II, now 1Ds Mark III replacement, no bigger megapixel camera etc.

You must have missed the refresh of the supertele lineup, the new 70-200 and 24-70s, and the 200-400.

They're losing customers? Got any data to support that? Or is it just more hot air?

 

[David Hull]

people take this rumor as an absolute truth. its a RUMOR. second half of 2014? more than 12 months (again a rumor) until released? many things can change.

+1

It's quite believable, though, that the 7DII will come in the second half of 2014.
I was actually thinking that the 7DII will get announced in March next year.
Now July-August seems more likely.

On the other hand, I don't believe that the 7DII will have the 70D sensor.
Canon won't be able to charge too much premium for the 7DII if it has the same sensor as the 70D - regardless of AF.

So, we'll see.

They collected quite a premium on the 5DIII over the 5DII when the most significant upgrade was the AF. My guess is that the new 7D will end up with the 5DIII style AF. That would actually be pretty nice on an APS-C body.

 

[Marsu42]

You must have missed the refresh of the supertele lineup, the new 70-200 and 24-70s, and the 200-400.

I certainly don't want to intervene in a good dogfight but I notice the 70-200L refresh was quite a while ago, but the rest are all products targeted towards a high budget (tele primes, 200-400) and/or special/pro crowd (24-70L2 w/o IS, but great edge sharpness).

The 5d3 of course is a good product if you forget about the first retail price, but from there the 6d is for low-light shooting with sub-par af and what the 24-70L/4 is for nobody has figured out yet. And let's not forget, no let's forget about the IS primes. Imho Canon is indeed postponing some updates (50L, 35L, I'd like a 180L/IS) for reasons unknown while 3rd party manufacturers fill the void.

But probably now Canon is going for the enthusiast market again, the 70D will be a good camera for a good price, and maybe the new lenses won't stay a [CR] and won't be updated with a multiplied price tag...

 

[x-vision]

Canon won't be able to charge too much premium for the 7DII if it has the same sensor as the 70D - regardless of AF.

They collected quite a premium on the 5DIII over the 5DII when the most significant upgrade was the AF. My guess is that the new 7D will end up with the 5DIII style AF. That would actually be pretty nice on an APS-C body.

With the 5DIII it's different: it's a real pro body, second best in the lineup after the 1DX.
The alternatives are a hamstrung 6D or a crop camera with inferior image quality.
This makes it easy for Canon to charge a hefty premium for the 5DIII - solely based on features.

Not so for the 7DII, which will have a cheaper but still very well spec'd and capable competitor in the face of the 70D.

 

[dolina]

7D2 will be announced before Christmas and may be available by Christmas but most likely be widely available by January.

The same will go with the 1D X successor.

 

[David Hull]

If I loook at the products Canon introduced during the last few years almost all of them are far away from that what customers want to buy.

Canon is now loosing a lot of customers. No new lenses long awaited lenses, no 7D Mark II, now 1Ds Mark III replacement, no bigger megapixel camera etc.

I make the decision to stop all orders for Canon products. It´s a shame what Canon is doing. If the Canon guys wake up and bring a real 1Ds Mark III replacement and the wanted lenses on the market I decide to buy them.

Actually I use up to 95 percent products from Hasselblad and Leica.

Yet somehow they seem to maintain market share and position -- strange.

 

[dswtan]

+1 disappointed. But it is just a rumor, fortunately. Doesn't bode well though. The 7D firmware basically told us everything about the potential update timeframe IMO.

The 70D is looking good, but not what I am looking for. My needs seem niche -- I was hoping for a regular smaller form factor 1DX and not the outsize beast that is. It would complement my 5D3 for greater speed, ISO perf, and crop factor reach. For birds and fast, distant stuff.

I never get battery grips for my DSLRs for the same size reason, and I can't justify the 1DX due to its size as well as cost. A small form factor 1DX would be perfect. Call it the 7DX. I would pay as much as I did for the 5D3.

My 7D is languishing because its ISO perf is just not good enough.

 

[docsmith]

Well, it makes me pleased that I decided in January to buy a 5D III instead of waiting for the 7D II.

+1. Exactly what this rumor has me thinking.

 

[Loswr]

My 7D is languishing because its ISO perf is just not good enough.

Then a 7DII won't be the answer, because the real limitation on ISO performance is the APS-C-sized sensor. Unfortunately, physics trumps hopes and dreams.

 

[distant.star]

.
Well that gave me a great, good laugh. However, we have irrefutable evidence part of that is not true. One of the best (and most courageous) photographers I know used his 5D3 with 70-200 f/2.8 II to shoot Hurricane Sandy washing away a pier on the New Jersey coast last year. He keeps posting pictures so I guess the camera is still working.

As for hammering nails, I'm going to let someone else do the definitive testing. I don't know about the 1Dx, but I would have been comfortable hammering nails with my 1V -- and I'm sure it would have done a great job.

Show me what your 1D X can do that make my 5D III looks like a children's toy.

Shoot pictures during a hurricane. Pound in nails if you can't find your hammer. Etc.

 

[pedro]

Canon won't be able to charge too much premium for the 7DII if it has the same sensor as the 70D - regardless of AF.

They collected quite a premium on the 5DIII over the 5DII when the most significant upgrade was the AF. My guess is that the new 7D will end up with the 5DIII style AF. That would actually be pretty nice on an APS-C body.

With the 5DIII it's different: it's a real pro body, second best in the lineup after the 1DX.
The alternatives are a hamstrung 6D or a crop camera with inferior image quality.
This makes it easy for Canon to charge a hefty premium for the 5DIII - solely based on features.

Not so for the 7DII, which will have a cheaper but still very well spec'd and capable competitor in the face of the 70D.

5D3: today's second best in the pro lineup and the best that could happen to me budget and photographywise. ISO 5000, 3 RAWs stitched together.

MILKYWAY03082013KleinMASTER_DEF by Peter Hauri, on Flickr


MILKYWAY03082013BWXKleinMASTER_DEF by Peter Hauri, on Flickr

 

[x-vision]

... the real limitation on ISO performance is the APS-C-sized sensor. Unfortunately, physics trumps hopes and dreams.

Unfortunately ... you are right.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Also the dual pixel af as an innovation in the 7d2 is a letdown, people shooting sports/wildlife will most likely continue to use the vf and phase af. But of course with lv af and the mirror already up Canon could get a lot of more fps from the 7d2 at practically zero cost...

But it might allow for f/8 AF with more lens combos and maybe help for macro wildlife and wildlife video.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I belong to a community of roughly 150 photographers and less than 3% of those are keen on the video capabilities of their cameras. 100% are very interested in image quality.

How many already use FF cameras? How many more would, budget permitting? If you're 'very interested' in IQ, you should first get the best lenses you can, then be hoping to get a FF body, not hoping for dramatic improvements in APS-C sensor IQ.

Problem is they haven't improved low ISO quality on FF either though. Now there are slight hints they might still be 3 stops behind DR for the next round which could mean for at least ANOTHER four years??? Maybe they can't or don't care to ever bother about it not for another 10-20 years?? Hopefully the 70D does improve DR or the 7D2 and whatever else will use a new sensor type.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Once you owned 5D III, your 7D will most likely sitting in the bag & collecting dust - or end up on CL.

Other than all the times you shoot distance limited wildlife (when you will badly wish you had your 7D back from CL).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Show me what your 1D X can do that make my 5D III looks like a children's toy.

Shoot pictures during a hurricane. Pound in nails if you can't find your hammer. Etc.

Well maybe the 5D3 can't do that but I shoot pictures during a hurricane with a 5D2.

 

[Loswr]

Once you owned 5D III, your 7D will most likely sitting in the bag & collecting dust - or end up on CL.

Other than all the times you shoot distance limited wildlife (when you will badly wish you had your 7D back from CL).

Especially when it nails the focus. Unfortunately, that happen less often than with my 1D X. It's not that the 7D's AF isn't good, but there have been times when what would otherwise be a great capture is ruined by being OOF, and that gives the 1D X (and 5DIII) a significant advantage.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

If I loook at the products Canon introduced during the last few years almost all of them are far away from that what customers want to buy.

Canon is now loosing a lot of customers. No new lenses long awaited lenses, no 7D Mark II, now 1Ds Mark III replacement, no bigger megapixel camera etc.

I make the decision to stop all orders for Canon products. It´s a shame what Canon is doing. If the Canon guys wake up and bring a real 1Ds Mark III replacement and the wanted lenses on the market I decide to buy them.

Actually I use up to 95 percent products from Hasselblad and Leica.

Well they had been doing that full scale and still are when you look at the silly new Rebel and the 60D and how they left out even 6D-level sensor tech from the 5D3 sensor and they surely have totally dropped the ball on sensor development for low ISO, but the 7D does get some credit (although the AI servo really didn't turn out to be all it was cracked up to be) and the fact they put 1 series AF in the 5D3 and gave the HW capability to do awesome video (even if they somehow blocked or muddled it up IQ-se and usage-wise until ML got around it all).

The 70-300L has proved to be a pretty neat lens in the long run and the 24-70 II is about as standard and wanted of a lens as could be with the best quality ever.

 

[CarlMillerPhoto]

If you own $10k+ of longer glass, I still think a built-for-war, high FPS, stellar focusing APS-C rig could sell for $2500 and be successful.

What fraction of Canon's intended 7DII market segment do you think owns $10K+ of longer glass?

A lot of the serious birding crowd I'm sure.

But again, how large is the serious birding crowd? Probably no more than 5% of the 7DII's intended market.

While I do REALLY like the idea of a "pro" grade APS-C, it all boils down to high-ISO performance for me. If they can't make a comparable ISO leap on the 7D to 7DII with what they did for the 5dMk II to MkIII, then I see no point in complimenting my Mark III with one. Nothing irritates me more than shooting with two bodies, both at the same settings, and having noisy photos/video from one but not the other.

And, given the limitations of high MP APS-C sensors (as others have mentioned), I'm very skeptical they can make such a jump unless they reduce the MP count. In my opinion, a 12 to 16MP, 10fps, 61 point auto focus 7DII would be awesome. That's the only way I see them both offering a real "upgrade" while at the same time differentiating a new body from the rest of their line-up. Although, I'm sure a good number of people would prefer high MP to better ISO. It all boils down to shooting needs I guess.