EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR2]

[dgatwood]

So that defines a specific need (longer shooters) that will always have a compelling value-proposition to stay with APS-C. Yes, you can opt for a different upgrade path, the double whammy for FF upgraders is clear: You need to buy the FF rig and get longer glass.

If Canon really wants people to upgrade to FF bodies, they need to start building only high-megapixel sensors. Make FF sensors with the same pixel density as the APS-C sensors. If the user prefers the lower noise that the existing sensors provide, they can either shoot in a lower-resolution mode that does binning or do the binning in post-processing. Either way, the quality loss for them is negligible, but the benefit for people upgrading from APS-C who still need the reach of APS-C is enormous.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

How not? What in the world does the 6D have to do with the 7D2?? One is supposed to be a high-speed, heavy reach, action AF camera and one is a low reach, sluggish, bottom-level body performance camera that simply focuses on delivering FF characteristics and FF sensor quality to market.

It seen so, that the 70D IS the new 7D Mark II. But without CF cards the camera has no change to go in the bag of pros.

Then how come we directly heard from Canon, not a rumor, direct press release, that they very much planned on releasing a 7D2? And if the 70D was a new decision yeah why no CF cards? Why pull spot and area AF?

The new pro camera (in different versions) with the new sensor design is out for testing for a long time and works very well, but there is no reaction from Canon if you ask for the product introduction.

"but there is no reaction from Canon"

well this sounds believable, fits right in with their attitude of more than half a decade ago where their rep literally bragged how they were kings of the hill and they no reason to do anything anymore but rule on top doing nothing for the king has no need to do anything new

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Once you owned 5D III, your 7D will most likely sitting in the bag & collecting dust - or end up on CL.

Other than all the times you shoot distance limited wildlife (when you will badly wish you had your 7D back from CL).

As a prev owner of 7D, I'm well aware what 7D can & can't do - that's why I bought 2nd 5D III.

Listen I prefer the 5D3 for most things too, but I sure as heck miss my 7D when I shoot wildlife and when I had both in bag for a while I sure used the 7D 90% of the time for that sort of stuff.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Once you owned 5D III, your 7D will most likely sitting in the bag & collecting dust - or end up on CL.

Other than all the times you shoot distance limited wildlife (when you will badly wish you had your 7D back from CL).

As a prev owner of 7D, I'm well aware what 7D can & can't do - that's why I bought 2nd 5D III.

Listen I prefer the 5D3 for most things too, but I sure as heck miss my 7D when I shoot wildlife and when I had both in bag for a while I sure used the 7D 90% of the time for that sort of stuff.

And am I more excited by a 5D4 with same fps as 5D3 but more reach and DR and video than a 7D2 yeah, but 7D2 still has a place for many and I doubt the 5D4 will quite manage to get us to 7D2 reach levels yet (although they could make a 75MP camera that is slow in 75MP mode (of course you would give up top ISO performance for when things are close though which wouldn't always be so good) and then fast in aps-c crop, although sadly canon seems to think that is a "nikon way" of doing things.)

Also, not everyone can afford FF. The bodies cost more and some of the standard lenses also cost more if you want to fully take advantage of the sensors performance to the edge.

 

[Etienne]

I don't think the 7D IQ is that great, especially on portraits/skin tones, which is why I bought a 5D2 several years back.

Now that I have the 5DIII, the 7D2 would have to be leaps and bounds past the 7D to be interesting.

 

[dflt]

Well, hi mpix looks to be imminent... everywhere

http://vimeo.com/71666317

 

[Don Haines]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

 

[Pi]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

 

[Don Haines]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

But the sensor isn't everything..... For the sake of argument, what if you made the 7D2 with the 70D sensor, yet with the features and autofocus capabilities of the 1DX? Where would that sit?

Perhaps the 7D2 will come out with a new mode, one that will make it indispensable for people taking pictures for facebook?

 

[Loswr]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

...and the numeral in the name is one digit too high.

 

[ahsanford]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

This is fairly well-covered ground here in the forums. There is a split (I wouldn't hazard a percentage guess) between those who believe that (a) a crop camera, if appropriately spec'd, could warrant a higher asking price than the 6D, and (b) a crop camera should never cost more than a (relatively contemporary) FF camera.

I'm with the former group. The 7D2 represents the pinnacle, the 'standard bearer' for the APS-C format, and should be top of the line in each and every performance metric compared to Canon's other APS-C entries. So though it may lack the pure IQ advantage that FF offers, so many other features -- AF, burst rate, build quality, ergonomics, etc. -- could trump the relatively basic features of the 6D. So, yes, I think the 7D2 will cost more than the 6D, especially if it is coming out as late as they say. (By H2 2014, the 6D may be down around $1700!)

Also, the 7D and 6D products are aimed at different shooters. I've posted 'who shoots what and why' a few times in the past year and I still stand by it:

XXXXD: Cost cost cost. "I cannot buy a film camera any longer", "my high school student son wants to pick up photography", etc.

XXXD: A few key consumer level niceties: touch screen, swivel screen, so-so AF for video. "I just want it to take nice pictures, and occasionally a video", "Do I need a longer lens? Maybe...", etc.

XXD: A thicker grip (I hear this often), top LCD for quick adjustments, less reliance on auto modes. "I've been shooting a while now", "I felt limited by my older camera", etc.

7D: Serious shooters (and some pros?) who see APS-C as a strength and not a liability. Better build. Fast burst. "This is the best tool for birding", "I need high burst rate to cover sports for the local paper", "I really like tweaking my lens AF", etc.

6D: Serious shooters who do see APS-C as a liability but don't want to pay for all the bells and whistles. "I have always wanted a FF camera", "It's not the highest end, but you should see the pictures I get with this."

5D3: Pros, videographers, well-funded enthusiasts, etc. who will pay for IQ and build quality but do not require the apocalypse proof build, cost or size of 1D bodies. "It's solid and doesn't let me down", "Shoosh, we're filming right now", "[Quiet shutter noise at wedding]", etc.

1DX: Those people. "Welcome to my studio", "We're invading Asia. Thought I'd tag along", "It was this or the obsidian steering wheel for my yacht" :

The 6D or 7D being higher or lower on the list is a matter of preference. The debate will always rage on between the 'FF purists' and the 'bigger picture / overall value pragmatists'. Both make fair points.

- A

 

[Pi]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

But the sensor isn't everything.....

Well, to be above the 6D, everything has to be above.

For the sake of argument, what if you made the 7D2 with the 70D sensor, yet with the features and autofocus capabilities of the 1DX? Where would that sit?

Next to the 6D?

 

[dgatwood]

6D: Serious shooters who do see APS-C as a liability but don't want to pay for all the bells and whistles. "I have always wanted a FF camera", "It's not the highest end, but you should see the pictures I get with this."[/b]

Also serious travelers who want GPS stamping without requiring an external accessory. I'd have preferred a crop body, but Canon didn't bother to make GPS available in the 70D, so I settled for the 6D.

 

[jrista]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

Perhaps, but megapixel count would be very similar, so spatial resolution will increase, greatly diminishing the difference in physical sensor size. Noise will increase a bit over the 6D, assuming no other technological improvements in the sensor beyond what we see in the 70D. Combine that with superiority in other features (AF, FPS, buffer depth, etc.) and there really isn't any reason the manufacturers list price for the two wouldn't be very similar, identical, or even lending to a higher priced 7D II (i.e. in the event that Canon does indeed do something fairly radical with the 7D II sensor...say move to 3-layer, move to a 180nm design, whatever it may be, so long as it is accompanied by a meaningful improvement in APS-C IQ over the 7D's 18mp sensor.)

 

[jrista]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

But the sensor isn't everything..... For the sake of argument, what if you made the 7D2 with the 70D sensor, yet with the features and autofocus capabilities of the 1DX? Where would that sit?

Perhaps the 7D2 will come out with a new mode, one that will make it indispensable for people taking pictures for facebook?

Haha, love the cat face icon.

 

[drjlo]

More and more, it looks like I made the right decision to splurge on EOS-M for aps-c fun rather than waiting (and apparently waiting lots more) for the next-gen, awesome, aps-c replacement for 7D.

 

[sagittariansrock]

Prototypes for a 7D Mark II now exist over a year, but if I look at the 70D and 6D price I think that there is no space for an 7D Mark II between the mentioned cameras.

But why can't a 7D2 with faster burst rate and superior focus system sit ABOVE the 6D?

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

But the sensor isn't everything.....

Well, to be above the 6D, everything has to be above.

For the sake of argument, what if you made the 7D2 with the 70D sensor, yet with the features and autofocus capabilities of the 1DX? Where would that sit?

Next to the 6D?

Well, since you absolutely love to argue just for the sake of argument- while it is true that a 7D cannot be higher up than a 6D because Canon makes it clear in the naming convention, it would be possible for a camera with a smaller sensor to be higher. Remember those days when the APS-H 1D used be ranked above the 5D? Only a sensor doesn't make a camera. Neither size, nor DR.

In any case, even though the 7DII is not going to be ranked above 6D, it is always possible it will be priced higher. 6D seems to be practically undersold to entice people to go FF, and I wonder if Canon will want to price the 7DII lower if they include features that will set it far apart from the 70D.

 

[Pi]

Well, since you absolutely love to argue just for the sake of argument- while it is true that a 7D cannot be higher up than a 6D because Canon makes it clear in the naming convention, it would be possible for a camera with a smaller sensor to be higher. Remember those days when the APS-H 1D used be ranked above the 5D? Only a sensor doesn't make a camera. Neither size, nor DR.

In any case, even though the 7DII is not going to be ranked above 6D, it is always possible it will be priced higher. 6D seems to be practically undersold to entice people to go FF, and I wonder if Canon will want to price the 7DII lower if they include features that will set it far apart from the 70D.

Speaking about arguing for the sake of the arguing - what is the ultimate authority which will determine which one is higher?

 

[Pi]

Perhaps, but megapixel count would be very similar, so spatial resolution will increase, greatly diminishing the difference in physical sensor size.

Ironically, with almost infinite pixel count, the advantage of the FF sensor would increase and would reach the limit 1.6x (in the center). And this is with the same lens and same f-stop. For equivalent ones, it is even more (think about 50/1.2 on crop vs. 85/2 on FF). You are forgetting the enlargement factor. With fast lenses wide open, an increased pixel count does not help you much.

Noise will increase a bit over the 6D, assuming no other technological improvements in the sensor beyond what we see in the 70D. Combine that with superiority in other features (AF, FPS, buffer depth, etc.) and there really isn't any reason the manufacturers list price for the two wouldn't be very similar, identical, or even lending to a higher priced 7D II (i.e. in the event that Canon does indeed do something fairly radical with the 7D II sensor...say move to 3-layer, move to a 180nm design, whatever it may be, so long as it is accompanied by a meaningful improvement in APS-C IQ over the 7D's 18mp sensor.)

I am not talking about price.

 

[whothafunk]

It would be missing more than half of the sensor.

and that's the only thing 6D offers. better IQ and ISO. 7D(2) on the other hand:
- FPS
- AF speed, spread and points
- CF
- buffer
- 100% VF and 1x magnification
- more custom functions
- better weather sealing and durability
- (Dual, +?) Digic 6 processor for the 7D2
- the tag "TOP APS-C"

and the list goes on. i completely see how its priced above 6D, even though i would rather see it not get above it. but in 1 year time, when 7D2 is supposedly released, 6D's price will plummet due to its age and.. you know the rest.