Why can't the 7D2 be a pro-level APS-C camera?AmbientLight said:
The 7D was pro-level... Why not the 7D2?
and please don't say "because it's not FF", Pro-level is a whole lot more than sensor....
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EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
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The 7D was pro-level... Why not the 7D2?
and please don't say "because it's not FF", Pro-level is a whole lot more than sensor....
AmbientLight said:
The 5D will likely be getting an upgrade to mark 4 by the end of the year or early 2015, so I doubt they are going to cripple the new 7D in order not to compete with an older 5D model. The 7D is the top of the line crop sensor camera in their lineup, so if it is released it will probably come with state of the art features for that sensor size. Remember, the features included in it have to be sufficient for the camera to remain competitive in its market space for three years, not a few months.
In all probability the 7D2 will outperform the 5D3 with regard to pretty everything except sensor crop size until the mark 4 arrives.
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I find the "hybrid viewfinder" to be very intriguing.... put dual-pixel AF and hybrid viewfinder together and what do you get? Do you end up with 20 million more AF points than the 1DX? Do you get to recognize objects and track them? Is AFMA toast?
The 70D is the tip of the iceberg..... it barely scratches the capabilities of Dual Pixel... there are interesting times ahead!
The 70D is the tip of the iceberg..... it barely scratches the capabilities of Dual Pixel... there are interesting times ahead!
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I'm not sensing anything too special. Canon "got lucky" when Nikon left the D7100 shot buffer crippled otherwise feature-wise, it has the better sensor, still reasonable fps and decent AF.
Given the time Canon have had, I would say it's an expectation that it's finally time some of their lagging areas like DR are brought up to date. To put it more bluntly, it would be very disappointing (as some people were in the 70D) if now it wasn't matching the current competition of crop resolution (~24MP) with not-so-obvious noise patterns and higher DR (surely at least equal to the current competition, already years old)
Given the time Canon have had, I would say it's an expectation that it's finally time some of their lagging areas like DR are brought up to date. To put it more bluntly, it would be very disappointing (as some people were in the 70D) if now it wasn't matching the current competition of crop resolution (~24MP) with not-so-obvious noise patterns and higher DR (surely at least equal to the current competition, already years old)
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Don Haines said:
"Pro" has always meant "top IQ", IMHO. This is even more apparent in the smart phone era.
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Hopefully Canon is looking at competition like the Pentax K-3 and deciding which features it needs to match or better. I'm not trying to sell Pentax here (or get booed off the forum), but which of these K-3 features would you be willing to give-up in a new 7DII? I'm hoping they are all there and perhaps bested by the 7DII.
K-3: 24.3 megapixel, 8.3 frames/sec, ISO 51,200, 27 point AF w/25 cross type sensors, focus peaking, fully weather sealed, dual cards (both SD... Canon can do better here), switchable pseudo-AA filter (interesting to see how well this works in the real world), 3.2 inch LCD, pop-up flash (only 1/180th sync. ... come on, Olympus can do 1/320 with their built-in). Oh BTW, cost is $1295 body only. (This feature I really like... doubt Canon is thinking that way however!)
K-3: 24.3 megapixel, 8.3 frames/sec, ISO 51,200, 27 point AF w/25 cross type sensors, focus peaking, fully weather sealed, dual cards (both SD... Canon can do better here), switchable pseudo-AA filter (interesting to see how well this works in the real world), 3.2 inch LCD, pop-up flash (only 1/180th sync. ... come on, Olympus can do 1/320 with their built-in). Oh BTW, cost is $1295 body only. (This feature I really like... doubt Canon is thinking that way however!)
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In September last year my 550D - my first and only DSLR at the time - suffered a malfunction and I needed to get something new. I had 80k actuations on it so it wasn't a big deal. Cam still works fine in most respects, but it was no longer up to being my only camera.
When I enquired at a local camera store about a 7D the guy said to me "What would you want a 7D for? The 7D mark ii will come out soon, you should wait." At which point I mentioned that I needed to keep shooting and, erm, what was I supposed to shoot with in the meantime??
That struck me as 1) a very strange thing for a salesperson to say and 2) (since I monitor CR) probably inaccurate. Good thing I didn't take his advice and sit around waiting for the 7D ii - 6 months later and still nothing on the horizon. Nikon Rumors just noted that the D400 is also thought to be a long way off, in fact they might just do a D7200 instead. I now have a 70D, but I might still be interested in a 7D ii depending on how it turns out (if at all).
When I enquired at a local camera store about a 7D the guy said to me "What would you want a 7D for? The 7D mark ii will come out soon, you should wait." At which point I mentioned that I needed to keep shooting and, erm, what was I supposed to shoot with in the meantime??
That struck me as 1) a very strange thing for a salesperson to say and 2) (since I monitor CR) probably inaccurate. Good thing I didn't take his advice and sit around waiting for the 7D ii - 6 months later and still nothing on the horizon. Nikon Rumors just noted that the D400 is also thought to be a long way off, in fact they might just do a D7200 instead. I now have a 70D, but I might still be interested in a 7D ii depending on how it turns out (if at all).
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Canon will find plenty of sales to photographers who are genuinely missing the somewhat lamented x1.3 APS-H sensor. Our 1D Mk3 and Mk4 bodies are reaching astronomical shutter counts, a premium, high performance 7DII would go a long way to satisfying the APS-H mob. They'll never last as long as a 1-Series which routinely run perfectly and reliably with several hundred thousand clicks on the clock, but at half or one-third the price...who cares? If half the rumored features show up on the final shipping 7DII, I'll probably get two of them in the first week.unfocused said:
-pw
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For people wanting 24MP in the 7D ii to match Nikon etc, remember that Canon's crop-sensor crop factor is 1.6 whilst Nikon's is 1.5. So at about 21MP the Canon would already have the same pixel density.
I wonder if Canon would ever consider moving to a 1.5 sensor to match Nikon and Pentax, if only for the 7D ii and maybe 80D lines. They could release some version ii EF-S lenses with a larger image circle.
Wait, version ii EF-S lenses?? Maybe in the year 2035...
I wonder if Canon would ever consider moving to a 1.5 sensor to match Nikon and Pentax, if only for the 7D ii and maybe 80D lines. They could release some version ii EF-S lenses with a larger image circle.
Wait, version ii EF-S lenses?? Maybe in the year 2035...
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The two card slots make sense, especially given that the 70D took some flak for not having dual card slots. Moreover, it makes sense that the 7D II will have CF card. I always smile a bit when I read predictions that the 7D II will "not have this" or "not have that" because...well...the 6D doesn't have it and it's full-frame and therefore "better."
In point of fact, the 7D II and the 6D (like the 7D and the 5D II before them) aren't targeting the same shooter--at all. The 7D blew the 5 D II away in terms of AF, burst speed and buffer--and the 5D II blew away the 7D for low-light and overall IQ. Different tools for different shooting scenarios.
All along, the stated target audience of the 7D II has been the 'action' shooter--the sports and nature photographer. The 7D was aimed heavily towards that market and the signs are that the 7D II will be aimed at that sort of shooter to an even greater degree.
The concept of a "mini 1DX" seems to still be the primary guiding principle, so it makes sense to give it CF cards, fast 10-12 fps burst and a deep buffer, combined with a state of the art AF system. IQ and low-light will likely be better than the 70D, but probably only moderately so. The main goal will be blistering performance and amazing AF, with great IQ for a crop sensor.
Those of us who want this camera, don't expect it to match or exceed the IQ of full-frame cameras like the 6D or the 5D III. If it can even come close to the IQ of the 5D II, that would be a win. But, what it will do, is handily outperform the 6D and 5D III as an action shooter's tool, where the subject is fast, at a distance and challenging to nail--just as the 7D outperformed the 5D II in those scenarios!
I'd say that's my two cents...but we got rid of the penny here in Canada.
In point of fact, the 7D II and the 6D (like the 7D and the 5D II before them) aren't targeting the same shooter--at all. The 7D blew the 5 D II away in terms of AF, burst speed and buffer--and the 5D II blew away the 7D for low-light and overall IQ. Different tools for different shooting scenarios.
All along, the stated target audience of the 7D II has been the 'action' shooter--the sports and nature photographer. The 7D was aimed heavily towards that market and the signs are that the 7D II will be aimed at that sort of shooter to an even greater degree.
The concept of a "mini 1DX" seems to still be the primary guiding principle, so it makes sense to give it CF cards, fast 10-12 fps burst and a deep buffer, combined with a state of the art AF system. IQ and low-light will likely be better than the 70D, but probably only moderately so. The main goal will be blistering performance and amazing AF, with great IQ for a crop sensor.
Those of us who want this camera, don't expect it to match or exceed the IQ of full-frame cameras like the 6D or the 5D III. If it can even come close to the IQ of the 5D II, that would be a win. But, what it will do, is handily outperform the 6D and 5D III as an action shooter's tool, where the subject is fast, at a distance and challenging to nail--just as the 7D outperformed the 5D II in those scenarios!
I'd say that's my two cents...but we got rid of the penny here in Canada.
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It would be nice if they use the exact same body and controls as the 5Dmk3 this would make it a viable 2nd body
I also hope it gets full 5Dmk3 AF
I think they would be better off keeping the MP modest and helping high iso improve as that is where crop sensors really fall down. really the difference in image between 22MP and 25 MP is next to nothing
dual card slots would be great I hope its CF and SD like the 5Dmk3 well not exactly like that, maybe they could make the SD slot perform better than the 5Dmk3 :
of course I still think they should resurrect the APS-H sensor for the 7D which will give it a significant ISO boost while retaining a good crop bonus 22MP APS-H would be really nice. (OK Let the APS-C Zealots loose on me i'm a self confessed heretic!
)
I also hope it gets full 5Dmk3 AF
I think they would be better off keeping the MP modest and helping high iso improve as that is where crop sensors really fall down. really the difference in image between 22MP and 25 MP is next to nothing
dual card slots would be great I hope its CF and SD like the 5Dmk3 well not exactly like that, maybe they could make the SD slot perform better than the 5Dmk3 :
of course I still think they should resurrect the APS-H sensor for the 7D which will give it a significant ISO boost while retaining a good crop bonus 22MP APS-H would be really nice. (OK Let the APS-C Zealots loose on me i'm a self confessed heretic!
)
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I'd be disappointed if it did.... I'm hoping to see the emergence of a new AF system that will set the standard for years to come...wickidwombat said:
If the improvements were incremental changes, it would have been out by now. The delays could mean something completely different.
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Hmmm.... very interesting thing I came across. I was comparing specs of cameras and look what I found....
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-7D-MII-vs-Canon_EOS_Digital_Rebel_XSi
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-7D-MII-vs-Canon_EOS_Digital_Rebel_XSi
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robdubbleu said:
Not bad.... even DXO scores for an imaginary body that has not been released.....
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Don Haines said:
You mean set a standard higher than the 61pt AF system? I think that one will be hard to beat. I've never seen an AF system lock on so fast, consistently, and easily as Canon'a 61pt AF system. What exactly would you improve in it? It certainly isn't broken, and certainly isn't something to be disappointed about if it found it's way into the 7D II.
When it comes to DPAF, that is an entirely different kind of AF for an entirely different purpose. As someone who uses PDAF for the very vast majority of his photography, I don't see DPAF taking over any time soon. While it is certainly cool technology, it's really just the beginning of the leg up that mirrorless needs to BEGIN to compete with what PDAF units currently offer. I think its going to be a few iterations, especially the one where it becomes QPAF, before we see sensor-based AF reaching the level of consistency, speed, and performance of PDAF.
And even then...it would require an EVF to function entirely properly...and EVFs have just as long a way to come before they can really be viable replacements for OVFs...
If the 7D II gets the 61pt AF system, I'd personally be ecstatic!
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jrista said:
I think it will be the single most determining feature that could convince me to get this camera or not bother
I believe it is likely as the system is well tested now with most bugs ironed out other than AF point illumination still being an issue, I wonder if they will fix that? it would be nice if they did
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