EOS-M is Dead. So where’s my RF Equivalents?

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#2
I know it is not related to the EOS-M system discussion, but an RF-S lens I wish more than anything else that Canon would make, is a modern mirrorless replacement of the "prosumer quality" RF-S 15-85mm. And yes, the 15mm is very important, but also give it some reach. If not 15-85mm then at least 15-70mm. I recently had an accident with my old 15-85mm and afterwards photos had an unsharp area in the right side of the lens. And while maybe not everyone would notice, it definitely annoyed me enough to stop using it. I tried using EF-S 17-55/2.8 and Sigma 17-40/1.8 instead, but while they definitely are good lenses for some purposes, they just wasn't anywhere near the 15-85mm as a general purpose zoom. So I found myself suddenly bringing my Powershot G5 X II on all my casual walks instead of my EOS R7. I have a lot of RF lenses, but my RF mount camera was suddenly very uninteresting without the 15-85mm as my bread and potatoes lens.

I was lucky, I recently found a new good used copy of the 15-85mm. The seller claims he only (bought and) used the lens on a 2-week vacation in 2011. And I have no reason not to believe him. But better still, would be an updated modern RF-mount version.
 
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#3
Stig Nygaard said:
I know it is not related to the EOS-M system discussion, but an RF-S lens I wish more than anything else that Canon would make, is a modern mirrorless replacement of the "prosumer quality" RF-S 15-85mm. And yes, the 15mm is very important, but also give it some reach. If not 15-85mm then at least 15-70mm. I recently had an accident with my old 15-85mm and afterwards photos had an unsharp area in the right side of the lens. And while maybe not everyone would notice, it definitely annoyed me enough to stop using it. I tried using EF-S 17-55/2.8 and Sigma 17-40/1.8 instead, but while they definitely are good lenses for some purposes, they just wasn't anywhere near the 15-85mm as a general purpose zoom. So I found myself suddenly bringing my Powershot G5 X II on all my casual walks instead of my EOS R7. I have a lot of RF lenses, but my RF mount camera was suddenly very uninteresting without the 15-85mm as my bread and potatoes lens.

I was lucky, I recently found a new good used copy of the 15-85mm. The seller claims he only (bought and) used the lens on a 2-week vacation in 2011. And I have no reason not to believe him. But better still, would be an updated modern RF-mount version.
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there's been a 17-70 in patent applications for ages.

I'd love that lens as it would be a great range for both crop and full frame

but the 15-85 or equivalent, without a doubt.

Amusingly, I used the 18-150mm for those same use cases as you mention. have you tried it? I would use it with DLO though, as it needs to clean up it's mess in the corners and whatnot.
 
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#4
Where are the RF-S lenses?? Sigma is making them. I own 7 of them and they work just fine on the R7 and R50V. (Two of the primes were converted/replaced by Sigma from their M equivalents. I'm still waiting for a Sigma 50-140 f/2.8 DC C.) I also own[ed] an M5 and 18-150 lenses in both M and RF mounts. The lenses were OK but the M5 always felt too small. The R50V is used exclusively on a tripod or gimbal.

As for conflict within Canon, wasn't the M series selling better than the RF series when it was abandoned? The decision to abandon it must have been painful and I think it had to do with no longer having to support the EF firmware code base and moving everything to the RF code base.
 
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#5
Richard CR said:
EOS-M is Dead. So where’s my RF Equivalents? ...
Click to expand...
I really hope, Canon will take care of it.
But Canon could also say: "Look at the R50V, the 16 STM, 28 STM, the 50 STM, The RF-S zooms. There you have it!"
I really, really hope, Canon will answer different and better. But if so, then I am sure, it won't be soon... :cry:
 
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#6
Richard CR said:
Amusingly, I used the 18-150mm for those same use cases as you mention. have you tried it? I would use it with DLO though, as it needs to clean up it's mess in the corners and whatnot.
Click to expand...
I would second that. The EF-M 18-150 is a great lens for APS-C, that and the M11-22 are my most-used M lenses. There is some copy variation, the ISO12233-type tests that Bryan first posted on TDP looked quite bad, I showed him mine as I was writing the lens review for TDP, and he ordered another copy to test that gave much better results. It made perfect sense to me that Canon rehoused the optics of that lens for the RF-S version, and if I had any inclination to buy an APS-C R-series camera then I would get that lens to go with it.
 
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#7
Bravo for this article. I'm missing that M6 II body more than the lenses. Crushed that they refuse to come up with an equivalent with current tech. I just sold my R10 to pay for other gear and waiting to see what the next version of it or the 50 brings, but they're obviously not the same. Also curious to see what the rumored V3 would bring, but that won't be ILC or have even an APS-C sensor.
 
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#8
"The market could be doing much better if Canon chose to look at the APS-C system as a system, and not an afterthought."

Fujifilm is the only company genuinely cares about APS-C. That's because they don't make FF cameras.
 
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#9
Maximilian said:
I really hope, Canon will take care of it.
But Canon could also say: "Look at the R50V, the 16 STM, 28 STM, the 50 STM, The RF-S zooms. There you have it!"
I really, really hope, Canon will answer different and better. But if so, then I am sure, it won't be soon... :cry:
Click to expand...
No matter what Canon says, there will always be someone waiting for a different answer.
 
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#11
I'm an original M pre-orderer day 1 LAUNCH of the M series and all the Ms after it. My 22-2 had been all around the world. If Canon made an M-equivalent RF camera--that is TINY--M6 era/style or even M50, as SMALL as those and with specialized lenses for it (primes) i'd be all over it. The "tiny" RF-S cameras thus far have junky looking and cheap looking dials and buttons, and do not have the metallic premium feel the M6 had. The M6 was the last great camera that kept things small and nice. I sold my M6 a little while ago but I do miss it.
 
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#12
mangobutter said:
I'm an original M pre-orderer day 1 LAUNCH of the M series and all the Ms after it. My 22-2 had been all around the world. If Canon made an M-equivalent RF camera--that is TINY--M6 era/style or even M50, as SMALL as those and with specialized lenses for it (primes) i'd be all over it. The "tiny" RF-S cameras thus far have junky looking and cheap looking dials and buttons, and do not have the metallic premium feel the M6 had. The M6 was the last great camera that kept things small and nice. I sold my M6 a little while ago but I do miss it.
Click to expand...
Buy it back then. What's the problem?
 
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#13
I was so satisfied with my M50 in 2018 that I later bought two M50 ii bodies to have a light capable tool for photo and good 1080p video. R50 V is a great camera but loosing the EVF is big deal for me after using that camera since it came out. Just a VGA-res viewfinder (640x480) would help in a strong way for (1) shooting in bright light and (2) as third point with body contact to avoid shaking.
EDIT:
EF-M 32 is a really great lens with stellar IQ over the whole aperture and focus range. Small, light ... just a tool without real flaws. I liked it for photo and it's now resting in my "video studio" on an M50 ii for youtube stuff where the clean HDMI is fed into an ISO recording device, sometimes with a 2nd camera and the computer screen cast.
 
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#17
Timely post...headed out for a (pre-Christmas) week-long Florida vacation in just over 48 hours; leaning toward stowing two M6MkII bodies, EF-M 11-22, 22 and 18-150 lenses, two small camera bags, a USB-C charging cable and a spare battery and SD card in my carry-on backpack. Room to spare. Lots.

Full frame gear stays home.
 
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#19
Nice article!

I also miss the cameras, or better the philosophy of high-end and comact of the EOS-M system.

I really liked the compact nature of the EOS-M system. I bought the M50 II (two actually) after I transitioned from the 5D III to the R5 and bought a R as a second camera. The M50 II had clean HDMI output so, like @mb66energy I could use it in multi-camera ISO recordings during COVID times. However, the compact nature of the camera was the main value to me. I got it with the 15-45mm which was great, but the EF-M 22mm F2 was by far the most used lens for me. I really loved that lens! I considered an M6 II, but the lack of EVF just was a deal breaker for me. The add-on EVF just looked wrong and I never tried it. I've since sold all my EF-M lenses/bodies.

I use the R50 in the same manner as I used the M50 II. I actually have two R50's. The R50 has significant advantages over the M50 II, the Digic X and advanced AF is great, but also it supports the UVC/UAC standards, so can be used as a webcam with no HDMI capture card/cables and no special Canon software. I used the RF-S 18-150 with the R50 quite a bit, until the Sigma RF-S lenses came out.

I now use the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 most of the time with the R50. It is an excelent combo! I also have the 10-18mm f/2.8 and the 16mm f/1.4, 23mm f/1.4, 30mm f/1.4 and 56mm f/1.4 . I use these as a compact kit for many situations. I really like the 18-50 and 10-18 zooms because they are compact and f/2.8. The 56mm f/1.4 prime is nice because it is compact and has the two stops advantage over the 18-50 for portraits. The 30 and 23 are larger. The 23 is large enough, larger than both zooms, that I don't really like bringing it with me. The 16mm f/1.4 is huge in comparison and mostly a webcam/video use lens for me. I'm not really into video, this is just talking heads type use.

What I really, really, really want is an RF-S 22mm F2. [Canon, please, please, please]. R50 + RF-S 22mm F2 = :) .

Perhaps even more than an RF-S 22mm F2 lens, I'd like to see an R50L. Not an R50 II, second version of an entry level camera, but a "Luxury" camera in the R50 form-factor. It would probably mean Canon needs a revamped lens line-up to go with it, if the strategy is to sell lenses.

My personal wish list:

- Improved sensor, improved low-light performance, fast enough readout to avoid the need for mechanical shutter of any kind.
- 24MP, or even 20MP if it makes a high IQ sensor more feasible.
- Burst rate can be kept at the current 15fps. But I want a bigger buffer.
- Pre-capture.
- ES shutter only
- IBIS
- Another exposure wheel (preferably two, though this would require some creativity...)
- A bit better EVF, though without adding bulk.
- Video features can remain the same as the current R50 or improved in some way.
- Customization ability more on par with higher end models

It could cost the same as an R7 and that would be fine. I'm sure I'm missing other features I'd like, but you get the idea.
 
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#20
Great article.

The lens I miss most on RF is the EF-M 22mm f/2.0.
This was such a great street photography lens. It's equivalent of almost exactly 35mm is considered the perfect focal length by many street photographers, and also by Fujifilm (the X100 series also has that equivalent focal length). It's also super light and unobtrusive, totally incomparable to the RF 24mm. But yes, mysteriously, that lens did not get ported to RF. I wonder why. Was it too good for what it cost?
Instead, we got the RF 28mm f/2.8, which is a whole other focal range on APS-C and feels more like a 50mm.
To me, it almost seems like Canon is getting ready to ditch their APS-C lineup, which so far has been treated like a stepchild.
 
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