EOS-M3 not selling well?

[ahsanford]

EOS-M3 unveils a new feature -- a reasonable price:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1180765-REG/canon_9694b001_eos_m3_mirrorless_digital.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296

Let's see if people would rather pay less for a (relatively) feature-spartan rig vs. say, having a viewfinder.

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

Personally, I very much like the current, removable, viewfinder implementation. I don't want the bulk of a full time viewfinder as the camera is very usable without one in most shooting situations.

For me the only EF-M lens worth a damn is the 22mm f2, this gives me a choice of the EOS-M or the Fuji X100T, at this point, for the images I make with a small sensored second/backup/fun/have all the time/casual shooting camera, I still prefer the M.

What I personally would like from the next M is some more f2 (as a minimum) primes, for me it is about subject separation (or shutterspeeds), I'd like a 10mm f2, a 31mm f2, and a 62mm f2 Macro. Give me the control layout of the M3 with the build quality of the M1 in a rugged and weathersealed body with the EVF-DC1 and I would be happy.

Of course my personal ideas for the M series are as irrelevant to Canon as anybody elses, and the probability of me getting 'what I want' is remote at best. Canon still see the M series as a high volume entry level camera and that doesn't correlate with 'fast' primes, rugged, full controls etc etc.

The M is not designed, built, or marketed to 'enthusiasts, am I the only person here who gets that?

 

[tcmatthews]

And it is still to expensive. Like it or not the EOS-M3 will be compared to other cameras. A Sony A6000 body only is currently selling for $398.00 on Amazon. I think of the Sony cameras as the primary competition. For $429 you should be getting the viewfinder thrown in.

If you want small go m43. You cannot really compare the Canon M cameras to the Fuji cameras as they are more enthusiast oriented.

Canon has made all the same mistakes that Sony made with the original launch of the Nex cameras. Sony underestimated the interest of enthusiasts in a smaller camera. Sony has responded by moving the entire camera line up market. Canon should have learned from Sony's launch of mirrorless and released two models from the very beginning. One targeted at enthusiasts and one like the original M.

The M3 is a move in the right direction but it is still not enough.

 

[Pookie]

And it is still to expensive. Like it or not the EOS-M3 will be compared to other cameras. A Sony A6000 body only is currently selling for $398.00 on Amazon. I think of the Sony cameras as the primary competition. For $429 you should be getting the viewfinder thrown in.

If you want small go m43. You cannot really compare the Canon M cameras to the Fuji cameras as they are more enthusiast oriented.

Canon has made all the same mistakes that Sony made with the original launch of the Nex cameras. Sony underestimated the interest of enthusiasts in a smaller camera. Sony has responded by moving the entire camera line up market. Canon should have learned from Sony's launch of mirrorless and released two models from the very beginning. One targeted at enthusiasts and one like the original M.

The M3 is a move in the right direction but it is still not enough.

I had the original M and now my 4 year old is actually learning to use it as his first camera. I never liked it nor did my wife who got it after I gave it up. I recently picked up a M3 to try for a week or so and it was promptly packed up and returned after 4 days, a big meh.

I own the Fuji X100S and XT... couldn't be happier with the IQ. Although, they are getting used less and less over time. With both you'll miss shots that my 5D3 and 1DX never miss and that is the major point of frustration. No matter how much you tell yourself it's not an action camera and you're going to head out to take pictures with them... inevitably it burns when you miss a shot. Love them, great images and the 100S works with strobes beautifully but I end up grabbing the Canon's 90% of the time these days.

 

[TeT]

Fortunately the problems with the M are not IQ... its getting to the IQ

In this latest rendition I believe no viewfinder is killing it. overall it has been AF (mostly speed). Hopefully Canon will eventually get it to all come together and make what we want; a mirrorless that rivals the 5D III/or better.

 

[Sportsgal501]

Olympus has the OM-D 10 with a lens and viewfinder on sale for $499.00.
Canon SL1 with a lens $499.00 and you can use your existing Canon lens.
They need to drop it down to $399.99 and toss in the viewfinder.

 

[privatebydesign]

Fortunately the problems with the M are not IQ... its getting to the IQ

In this latest rendition I believe no viewfinder is killing it. overall it has been AF (mostly speed). Hopefully Canon will eventually get it to all come together and make what we want; a mirrorless that rivals the 5D III/or better.

It might be for you, not for me. There is a huge difference between 'a viewfinder' and a viewfinder I'd actually want to use. The later generally makes a camera bigger than I am looking for in a smaller than DSLR format.

 

[TeT]

Fortunately the problems with the M are not IQ... its getting to the IQ

In this latest rendition I believe no viewfinder is killing it. overall it has been AF (mostly speed). Hopefully Canon will eventually get it to all come together and make what we want; a mirrorless that rivals the 5D III/or better.

It might be for you, not for me. There is a huge difference between 'a viewfinder' and a viewfinder I'd actually want to use. The later generally makes a camera bigger than I am looking for in a smaller than DSLR format.

I would think that a native view finder would be smaller than the chunk they are selling....

 

[privatebydesign]

Fortunately the problems with the M are not IQ... its getting to the IQ

In this latest rendition I believe no viewfinder is killing it. overall it has been AF (mostly speed). Hopefully Canon will eventually get it to all come together and make what we want; a mirrorless that rivals the 5D III/or better.

It might be for you, not for me. There is a huge difference between 'a viewfinder' and a viewfinder I'd actually want to use. The later generally makes a camera bigger than I am looking for in a smaller than DSLR format.

I would think that a native view finder would be smaller than the chunk they are selling....

But the point is, the EVF-DC1 is removable, just like a 600-EX-RT is. I can make the M small if I want to, indeed the M and the 22 prime is eminently pocketable and has probably the highest IQ per camera size out there. I can keep a flash and the viewfinder in a pocket or very small bag for more serious use if I want it, but without those two it serves very well as an extremely high IQ casual camera. Start throwing in a fixed optical viewfinder worth using and the size gets too big to do the double duty, which for me is the point of the thing. If it is bigger than an SL1/G1X/G16 what is the point?

 

[archiea]

Hey gang,

Just be clear:

1) All cameras are on sale now because of the holiday: 5D, M3. Funji, etc. the fuji X-t1, which is my current "work safe porn" browsing material ;D has a $300 discount... even the limited edition Graphite version! Leica has had a 12% discount off for months.. yes its the strong dollar and yes those lenses prices doubled in the past 5 years but premium brand like lieca discounting? Also Profoto, another premium product, discounted by 35% in some areas. Whiel this is no vindication of the M3 features (or lack of), it is the holiday season.

2) If your are on the fence about the Eos m3 and the eve, if your purchase the body only and add the eve, they give you the eve for like $20. Basically a $20 discount:

So the M3 with EVF can be had for $447.


Lastly: Be a photographer, not a consumer. The M3 is still faster than a manual rangefinder, yet people take great pictures with a manual rangefinder. In fact, I got a M3- leica M adapter and use rangefinder lenses on the M3. Its a great 24mp platform to some great glass on, not to mention my canon strobes on like a 5D. So you can quibble on this feature or that half second extra delay. or you can take advantage of some nice tech at a nice price.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I believe the M3 is selling very well. Perhaps not in the USA or Canada, but its doing very well in its core market in Asia. As long as they sell enough to pay for the expensive setup of service training and parts, its just incrementally more profit on top of the huge Asia sales.

 

[HaroldC3]

I bought the M3 about a month ago and all I have to say is if there existed an affordable 70-300mm lens in e-mount I would have bought the a6000. But the lack of a quality telephoto lens at a reasonable price held me back from going with e-mount. I use the EF-S 55-250mm STM lens on the M3 and very much like the results.

 

[Scuff]

I am using my M3 alongside my SLR's.
I have used the whole set of m series lenses and tried it out with my slr ef lenses.
I do think it does a great job in its own right. It doesn't lend itself to action photography, but it does get a laugh from others when it is mounted on the back of a 300 f2.8 . I just shoot as I did before AF was invented by pre focussing on a point and take the shot when the action arrives there.
Using it as a small outfit, I have taken images that I would not have taken with my slr set up, as carrying around a lot of weight is a chore sometimes.
It works well with my tilt/shift lenses, and I am currently getting some great sharp and contrasts shots with the ef adapter and 40mm pancake lens.
It's no SLR, but it is pleasant to use and produces great images if used within its limitations.

 

[eninja]

I am using my M3 alongside my SLR's.
I have used the whole set of m series lenses and tried it out with my slr ef lenses.
I do think it does a great job in its own right. It doesn't lend itself to action photography, but it does get a laugh from others when it is mounted on the back of a 300 f2.8 . I just shoot as I did before AF was invented by pre focussing on a point and take the shot when the action arrives there.
Using it as a small outfit, I have taken images that I would not have taken with my slr set up, as carrying around a lot of weight is a chore sometimes.
It works well with my tilt/shift lenses, and I am currently getting some great sharp and contrasts shots with the ef adapter and 40mm pancake lens.
It's no SLR, but it is pleasant to use and produces great images if used within its limitations.

How is the hand holding grip of M3, specially with heavier lenses?

I used to hold my 6D one handed on the grip. I wonder if it will feel a bit weird to hold eos m3 one handed.?

Weird like lens to heavy feels like it is going to snap and spoil the lens mount.

 

[Random Orbits]

How is the hand holding grip of M3, specially with heavier lenses?

I used to hold my 6D one handed on the grip. I wonder if it will feel a bit weird to hold eos m3 one handed.?

Weird like lens to heavy feels like it is going to snap and spoil the lens mount.

The grip is better than the original, but it's not big enough to resist the torque of lenses like the 70-200 f/2.8. 24-70 is doable.

 

[vjlex]

How is the hand holding grip of M3, specially with heavier lenses?

I used to hold my 6D one handed on the grip. I wonder if it will feel a bit weird to hold eos m3 one handed.?

Weird like lens to heavy feels like it is going to snap and spoil the lens mount.

Even as a satisfied M3 owner, I will say holding the M3 one-handed with anything bigger than a 50mm EF lens kinda sucks. I generally end up holding the whole thing by the lens barrel (24-70 II and 80-200). Not only that, but for me, the place where I would grip the body with the heel of my palm is occupied by the Menu button. The button layout is not ideal by any means... unless you plan on using the 4 EOS-M lenses exclusively.

 

[unfocused]

I want to respond to the original post's title and implication that you can infer sales volume from a drop in street prices.

If you go into Ye Olde Camera Shoppe on main street and Mr. Local Dealer has a camera sitting in the display case gathering dust that you are interested in and he says to you: "I'll give you an extra $150 off if you take it today," you can infer that he was unable to sell that camera at the original price. But that is one camera and one dealer.

However, if Ms. Big Box Retailer or Mr. Internet Virtual Dealer offer a Black Friday special on a camera it's not because they aren't selling well. It's likely just the opposite. In order to offer a bargain price they have to stock up on the model and gauge what their sales will be. The last thing they want is to have 5,000 cameras sitting in a warehouse unsold because they overestimated demand.

So, ask yourself: would you stock up on a camera that nobody is buying? Or would you pick a camera that you know you can sell?

 

[ashmadux]

How is the hand holding grip of M3, specially with heavier lenses?

I used to hold my 6D one handed on the grip. I wonder if it will feel a bit weird to hold eos m3 one handed.?

Weird like lens to heavy feels like it is going to snap and spoil the lens mount.

Even as a satisfied M3 owner, I will say holding the M3 one-handed with anything bigger than a 50mm EF lens kinda sucks. I generally end up holding the whole thing by the lens barrel (24-70 II and 80-200). Not only that, but for me, the place where I would grip the body with the heel of my palm is occupied by the Menu button. The button layout is not ideal by any means... unless you plan on using the 4 EOS-M lenses exclusively.

This.

Im a new owner of a few days, and yeah its just small, even with the grip. The grip itself only covers two of my fingers while the middle finger acts as support underneath. this is with a 50/1.4 attached.

My original m has a phottix metal grip attached, and it feels perfect and heavy.

Someone needs to make a grip for this camera- i have yet to see one, much less an extended battery.

 

[jypfoto]

I ended up buying one yesterday, taking advantage of the $18.99 EVF deal. If you know its shortcomings going into it and can find a work around, then it's a good deal. I have experience with the M line having owned the original, imported the M2 from eBay, and now ordering the M3. If expectations are making this a full fledged system or something you're going to use as a primary option, then yes it pales in comparison to almost every other system out there, I would go so far as to say that even the Nikon 1 line is a more compelling system (32 1.2 portrait, compact 70-300 lens that's a 810 equivalent, lightning fast AF). But if you pick it up as a compliment to your either FF system or APS-C system, then I would argue depending on what your current system is, it's hard to find a better value at the current price again if it fits your needs.

For me, my main system is the Sony a7rII. My goal was to find a compact camera for those everyday moments when you don't want to carry your system and a bag of lenses. Yes the Sony is small and easier to carry around than when I used to use a full fram DSLR. I could carry it everywhere but there are times when I don't want a $4,000 camera plus lens hanging off my shoulder. I'm talking about moments like she in taking my kids to the park to play for 30 minutes or going on a quick walk where photography isn't the main goal. Or to dinner with the family where I may want a picture or two but want something better than my iPhone but don't want the bulk of a DSLR/larger Mirrorless.

Decided on the M3 with EVF and the 22 f/2. And will stay with that, the only other lenses I could see myself possibly getting is the 11-22. Again as a secondary camera, $450 isn't a bad purchase. In the amount of research that I did, it was one of the few options that was APS-C or higher with a 180 screen that has a touch screen).

- 35 equivalent is a great focal length for me, and the 22 is a killer lens for the price (performance and size). More so than the 35 options on the Sony side (1.4 is too big, 2.8 is decent, 2.0 manual is a non starter).
- Just enough features for me (wifi, touch screen, tilt screen, grip, APS-C or higher sensor) and enough for my wife (selfie screen, small size due to removable EVF, auto modes). The Sony a5100 comes close but doesn't have an EVF and doesn't have a cheap, small quality 35, the Zeiss 24 f/1.8 is both considerably larger, heavier, and 3-5x the cost.
- I don't have any EF lenses but for those that have them, it's a cheap quality digital back for them.

As a lightweight, jacket pocketable compliment to a full fledged system, it's fine. As a primary system it fails. Most reviews criticizing its performance is just based on its comparative stance versus other systems. But for something whose needs somewhat match mine, and I'm sure there's more than a few of us out there, it's a quality option, st $800 like the original, or even $650-700 + $250 for the EVF like the launch price I wouldn't even consider it. At $447 for the body and EVF, it worth a purchase for me.