Eos7D mk2, How disappointed will you be if . . .?

[alexanderferdinand]

If it has an SD- card slot, maybe now understanding UHS-!, but only half speed.

Buffer with only 15 frames depth.

No spot metering on the activated AF- field.

And all this only to make it fit to its pricetag aka cripple to fit.

 

[Ivan Muller]

Even though I am not really in the market for a new 7Dmk2 I would be very disappointed if it doesn't have new and improved sensor technology because it would mean that there is a very good chance that there also will be nothing new on the horizon for FF either.

I desperately want a FF 36mp+ sensor body
plus an Eos M mk3 with an electronic viewfinder (build in or otherwise) and at least 70D comparable live view AF!

Is this just tooo much to ask for? Really??

 

[StudentOfLight]

It would be disappointing if the 7D-II was just an incremental upgrade of the 70D. I mean, why on earth would they have needed to take so long to bring it to market?

I might have bought the 70D already if it had a headphone jack, but I want decent IQ at ISO 3200. If the 70D sensor can't achieve that then I'll just wait for a viable option that can.

 

[Loswr]

It would be disappointing if the 7D-II was just an incremental upgrade of the 70D. I mean, why on earth would they have needed to take so long to bring it to market?

Perhaps because the 7D was selling quite well...

I might have bought the 70D already if it had a headphone jack, but I want decent IQ at ISO 3200. If the 70D sensor can't achieve that then I'll just wait for a viable option that can.

I'm not convinced the 7DII will have significantly better high ISO performance than the 70D.

 

[Leigh]

I currently have two 7D bodies, and one 6D.

The 7D replacement would need to have significantly lower noise performance for me to upgrade; although I wouldn't expect to match that of the 6D.

The 7D used value is going rapidly "down the tube"; I've had one of my bodies, with an EF-S 17-85 on Craig's list for two months, started with $900 OBO, now down to $650 OBO, and not one response.

Leigh
www.leighwax.com

 

[Don Haines]

I might have bought the 70D already if it had a headphone jack, but I want decent IQ at ISO 3200. If the 70D sensor can't achieve that then I'll just wait for a viable option that can.

I'm not convinced the 7DII will have significantly better high ISO performance than the 70D.

Personally, I expect the 7D2 to be a huge leap forward from the 70D for high ISO performance.... at least a third of a stop...

 

[Tugela]

it has the same sensor as the Eos70D but with just more bells & whistles?

I have a sneaky feeling that maybe its going to be the same image quality as the 70D just more robust, full frame viewfinder, gazillion frames per second, wifi, gps and class leading video...So just how disappointed will you be if that is the case?

Neither surprised nor disappointed. It seems pretty likely, to me. If there's a significant IQ boost, I might be tempted to get one as a backup body...but the kind of IQ boost I'm talking about likely defies the laws of physics, so I'm not holding my breath.

Really? You think this is the end of the line for IQ? Sure, some sizes inside the sensors might be reaching the limits set by physics, but most problems are a question of engineering. I don't have a way to prove my claim, but I bet you if you look back in 10 years, you will agree with me that the IQ now and the IQ then will not be comparable.

If i've said it once, i've said it a hundred times, in film, the 35mm topped out at 8x10 for image quality... yeah you could print bigger but you were always sacrificing quality and or grain by going 11x14 or 16x20... now we have the 5d3 and the like that can print almost a 16x20 out of camera with little to no interpolation of the pixels. We have gone leaps and bounds than the film era, but like, neuro, we are really reaching it's max potential... Now with the improvement of technology and processing, I can see similar qualities or maintaining the quality, but even bigger picture/file/pixel counts... and that in itself is no easy feat... but to have the assumption that you can keep getting bigger and better sensors that are really size dependent and restricted, I dont see that happening too much more without major sacrifices. Lastly, with technology getting better, slowly but surely i hope and can see medium format being the route many photographers will go in the future (like in the days of film) when optimum IQ and print size was ideal.

Higher resolution sensors mean squat if the lens resolution is less than that. Current resolution sensors are more than adequate for 99%+ of users.

Real improvements will come from reducing noise levels and increasing dynamic range, not simply increasing resolution.

 

[Stephen Melvin]

Maybe Canon has decided to finally make some pro-grade lenses to go with the 7D, and is waiting until they can launch both at once.

 

[RGF]

Maybe Canon has decided to finally make some pro-grade lenses to go with the 7D, and is waiting until they can launch both at once.

All the Pro grade lenses (the "L" lenses) will work on the 7D. Do you mean that they will make pro grade EF-S (crop sensor) lenses? To do that, they will need a pro grade body. A 1Dx with an APS-C sensor.

 

[RGF]

Unless there is a major improvement in the sensor quality, this signals bad news for the future of Canon. They are behind Nikon (Sony) in sensor technology and need to step up their game to keep competitive.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

it has the same sensor as the Eos70D but with just more bells & whistles?

I have a sneaky feeling that maybe its going to be the same image quality as the 70D just more robust, full frame viewfinder, gazillion frames per second, wifi, gps and class leading video...So just how disappointed will you be if that is the case?

Lets face it the Sony sensors are pretty good, if not class leading, probably as good as it's going to get at the moment, so just why will Canon have such better sensor technology as Sony's? Nothing in the recent history of Canon sensor technology suggests otherwise...

If, and its a big if, they bring out a ID mkIV size sensor it will be great, but maybe its also an indication that they just could not squeeze out anymore image quality with their R&D at present....which begs the question then why they don't just buy Sony sensors? Would anybody mind a Sony sensors in Eos bodies?

Although at this point I probably only have $ for one body so I'm more looking to 5D4. Although a 7D2 would make, one would hope, an awesome wildlife camera and be nice to have. If I did mange to get both, it would be a bit disappointing, although it wouldn't be a complete no dice as it would be for a 5D4 which is where I'd be doing my critical landscape work and so on where the low ISO DR is more 100% critical for me (not that it can't be nice at times for wildlife and sports though, but it's not quite as upsetting as if every type of shot was to be low ISO DR limited again, at least it would just be wildlife and some sports, where it can matter, but not as often for me as for landscape and such). It would be a bit of a shame if it didn't set a new standard for aps-c high iso though too though (not that I expect the 5D3 matching miracle that some do, since that is not really even possible). So yeah a bit of a disappointment for sure, but maybe not quite to the no dice level, but a shame, especially since it might last another 3-5 years.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

it has the same sensor as the Eos70D but with just more bells & whistles?

I have a sneaky feeling that maybe its going to be the same image quality as the 70D just more robust, full frame viewfinder, gazillion frames per second, wifi, gps and class leading video...So just how disappointed will you be if that is the case?

Neither surprised nor disappointed. It seems pretty likely, to me. If there's a significant IQ boost, I might be tempted to get one as a backup body...but the kind of IQ boost I'm talking about likely defies the laws of physics, so I'm not holding my breath.

Really? You think this is the end of the line for IQ? Sure, some sizes inside the sensors might be reaching the limits set by physics, but most problems are a question of engineering. I don't have a way to prove my claim, but I bet you if you look back in 10 years, you will agree with me that the IQ now and the IQ then will not be comparable.

There is still room to improve. Certainly by miles for lower ISO DR for Canon and even DR at higher ISO can get better. For SNR for the standard upper mid-tone gray test there is not that much more room to improve though. What are the sensors, like 50-60% efficient? So at this point you can't even double the efficiency no matter what (although I'm not quite sure what they based the efficiency on, perhaps not all colors and jsut green or something and so maybe there is a little more room still than seems with a totally new type of technology, but all the same there still isn't room for a ton more. Some talk about how amazing it will be when we have 4 stops, 10 stops better, never happening. More like 1 stop or something with the ideal effort (not easy!). 7D tech is a little older than 6D/1DX tech though so a touch more room to improve. And certainly they can reduce high iso banding on it and make whatever it has look better in some circumstances, like the 5D3 is maybe 1/2 stop better than 5D2 only, but it has a lot less high iso banding under some circumstances and in scenes with lots of stuff near black that can effectively make the 5D3 seem, in certain ways, 1.5 or even 2 or 3 stops more usable, from time to time or extremely odd occasion for the 3 stops.)

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Because ISO6400 and up and even ISO3200 or 1600 to some extent look ugly it's easy to forget what the reality is and just how high those ISO are and how amzing the performance is already actually. Just look back to film to realize! Look at your old ISO800 at what would be like 100% view 5D2 scale and it's nasty and grainy, ISO800, even ISO400 suffers quite some. So think how many stops better these amazing digital sensors have become than film collection.

 

[Loswr]

Personally, I expect the 7D2 to be a huge leap forward from the 70D for high ISO performance.... at least a third of a stop...

Canon could claim 1.5 stops...and as usual, omit that the stated improvements applies to JPG only.

 

[Loswr]

Unless there is a major improvement in the sensor quality, this signals bad news for the future of Canon. They are behind Nikon (Sony) in sensor technology and need to step up their game to keep competitive.

LOL. They've 'been behind' in sensor quality for 4 years now, and Canon is still the market leader, while Nikon has lost market share. As soon as people start buying bare silicon sensors, that may change...but as long as people are buying cameras, predictions of doom like this are, quite honestly, a ridiculous fallacy.

 

[9VIII]

At this point I'm already looking to the 5DMkIV just as much (or maybe a 1D?), if it actually gets a 47MP sensor then I would have a hard time justifying owning both it and the 7DMkII.

 

[bdunbar79]

Unless there is a major improvement in the sensor quality, this signals bad news for the future of Canon. They are behind Nikon (Sony) in sensor technology and need to step up their game to keep competitive.

I think you have the reversed. According to the latest data, the gap between Canon and Nikon is actually growing slightly. Seems that Nikon had better do something and react, not the other way.

 

[Loswr]

Unless there is a major improvement in the sensor quality, this signals bad news for the future of Canon. They are behind Nikon (Sony) in sensor technology and need to step up their game to keep competitive.

I think you have the reversed. According to the latest data, the gap between Canon and Nikon is actually growing slightly. Seems that Nikon had better do something and react, not the other way.

See, there you go…bringing up data and facts. How dare you?!?

 

[bdunbar79]

Unless there is a major improvement in the sensor quality, this signals bad news for the future of Canon. They are behind Nikon (Sony) in sensor technology and need to step up their game to keep competitive.

I think you have the reversed. According to the latest data, the gap between Canon and Nikon is actually growing slightly. Seems that Nikon had better do something and react, not the other way.

See, there you go…bringing up data and facts. How dare you?!?

But...but...DxOmark said so...

 

[klickflip]

It's probably not the camera for me, so I'd be more surprised than disappointed. IMO the long delay on the 7DII must relate to the sensor; everything else is in place.

So if the sensor doesn't offer some significant advance over the 70D s new tech of duel 'pixel' I'd be surprised. I still wonder if Canon would have the b***s to make it a high speed, low light king of around 16 mp. Leave the really high mp to the amateur lines and really kick out some FF challenging IQ from the crop sensor.

A 16mp low light fast action monster would be a very good press/ sports / event / gig camera but - 'leave the really high mp to the amateur lines and really kick out some FF challenging IQ from the crop sensor' ???
Like general Ams would love to be dealing with 40mp files sucking the life out of their cheap dells , maybe a few gotta have it tech heads would love it with maxed out machines but most would not. Personally I'd like it but still concerned by crop sensor IQ, we tested 5Dc recently to the 7D and the 5Dc is much much better IQ. FF make a big difference.

And think of all the birders who bought into the 7D .. a fair few extra MP would help them crop tighter if needed so they would welcome that, although not pros and certainly not typical Ams .. many are very very keen enthusiasts that would welcome it. So more MP = higher end . But there are a lot out there...

Personally if its the 70D sensor then they need to be rounded up and shot for selling regurgitated good year on year.

My bets/hopes are 24 MP dual pixel 1 stop better DR than anything current and that would be a teaser for the future of high end Canon cameras 1DxII and 5D IV .