First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING P3, DEER P6)

[SecureGSM]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

there are few serious omission in the post above that may mislead forum members.

the Auto ISO feature the poster is referring to has nothing to do with Automatic Shutter speed selection.
ISO Auto is mode in which camera will set ISO automatically (within pre-selected range) based on pre-selected Aperture and shutter speed mode (minimum or AUTO) - in P, M, AV or TV mode.

however if the shutter speed in menu is set to AUTO, the minimum shutter speed will be reciprocal of the lens focal length. with a single step form slower to faster equal to a single step of the shutter speed (1/3 of a stop) typically. see 6D II manual

2. same function was available in 5d III, and 6:

"... Shuter speed set to Auto: Camera will continue to try to maintain a shutter speed of at least 1 over the lens focal length, changing ISO to maintain this as long as possible. The camera will tend to pick lower ISOs and slower speeds when using standard or wide-angle lenses...."

and if not possible? well, you stuffed as your shutter speed drops to beyond acceptable and the shot is gone. and if you run and gun, then you lost it.. gone.. I cannot afford this. thank you, but no thank you!

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/eos_AutoISO.shtml

3, you cannot "bias" reciprocal rule, what is said above is incorrect. you can bias only total exposure value.
camera will tend to lower ISO first and only then use faster shutter speed.

4. AUTO SHUTTER speed is available in P and AV mode only.


therefore, to make the long story short and not to side track the thread: there is absolutely nothing new in shutter speed AUTO settings. the option is available in Canon bodies as of 2013

in my run and gun shooting experience, the AUTO SHUTTER SPEED setting is a definite recipe for disaster as your shutter speed may drop as soon as upper limit of AUTO iso is reached and camera will reduce shutter speed to maintaine exposure level.

yes, you can increase auto iso level UP and UP but then camera tends to set much higher than optimal iso levels and maintain shutter speed higher than reciprocal rule.
again: AV mode only !!!

there are plenty alternatives there. I would recommend the following:

if you run and gun, then do not set shutter speed to auto.

 

[tomscott]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

there are few serious omission in the post above that may mislead forum members.

the Auto ISO feature the poster is referring to has nothing to do with Automatic Shutter speed selection.
ISO Auto is mode in which camera will set ISO automatically (within pre-selected range) based on pre-selected Aperture and shutter speed mode (minimum or AUTO) - in P, M, AV or TV mode.

however if the shutter speed in menu is set to AUTO, the minimum shutter speed will be reciprocal of the lens focal length. with a single step form slower to faster equal to a single step of the shutter speed (1/3 of a stop) typically. see 6D II manual

2. same function was available in 5d III, and 6:

"... Shuter speed set to Auto: Camera will continue to try to maintain a shutter speed of at least 1 over the lens focal length, changing ISO to maintain this as long as possible. The camera will tend to pick lower ISOs and slower speeds when using standard or wide-angle lenses...."

and if not possible? well, you stuffed as your shutter speed drops to beyond acceptable and the shot is gone. and if you run and gun, then you lost it.. gone.. I cannot afford this. thank you, but no thank you!

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/eos_AutoISO.shtml

3, you cannot "bias" reciprocal rule, what is said above is incorrect. you can bias only total exposure value.
camera will tend to lower ISO first and only then use faster shutter speed.

4. AUTO SHUTTER speed is available in P and AV mode only.


therefore, to make the long story short and not to side track the thread: there is absolutely nothing new in shutter speed AUTO settings. the option is available in Canon bodies as of 2013

in my run and gun shooting experience, the AUTO SHUTTER SPEED setting is a definite recipe for disaster as your shutter speed may drop as soon as upper limit of AUTO iso is reached and camera will reduce shutter speed to maintaine exposure level.

yes, you can increase auto iso level UP and UP but then camera tends to set much higher than optimal iso levels and maintain shutter speed higher than reciprocal rule.
again: AV mode only !!!

there are plenty alternatives there. I would recommend the following:

if you run and gun, then do not set shutter speed to auto.

Surprised you haven't turned up earlier to slate some more of my posts! Welcome!

Page 175 of the manual setting minimum shutter speed for auto ISO.
Page 130 of the 5DMKIII manual all you can do is set a minimum shutter speed overall for any lens you use.

Pretty sure that was the question.

It depends on what your usable range is mine is 100-12800 which in the situations I use it works really well. Like I said I use it in different situations not all the time, I use it appropriately. The auto ISO will always try to set the lowest ISO so I think its a useful feature worth mentioning that maybe not everyone knows about.

You do what you feel is right and this is how I work and I get results. I use it casually shooting and in decent light, the auto ISO never pushes to crazy levels in these situations and when in good light it doesnt always shoot at the minimum because... thats the minimum.

For example at 0 24mm shoots at 1/30th
1 24mm shoots at 1/60th
2 24mm shoots at 1/125th
3 24mm shoots at 1/250th

Your comments are so dramatic "definite recipe for disaster" "then you lost it.. gone.. I cannot afford this" LOL!

So why do so many people use it if its a disaster. Such rubbish. Most of the circle of pros I associate myself with use this feature and is where I learned how to use it.

Surprised there hasn't been more of 6DMKII is sh*t and the 5DMKIV is the only camera you can get decent images from. ;D

You talk a whole lot yet I haven't seen any images from you at all. Ever...

Funny that.

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

Tom,

tone it down for starters. I did not even mention your name. I never said that 6d II is a bad camera. I made comment that 6D II is not the right tool for my personal situation, you can shoot with whatever you choose to shoot. Not sure why you are so emotional about it.

yes, auto shutter speed is recipy for disaster for one simple reason:

you can control how low shutter speed will end up being. yes, you can crank up auto ISO to 12800, but then you will find that a lot of images were taken at higher iso than you wanted them to be. much higher.

yes, some people shoot in auto iISO. some even shoot in A mode or P mode. what is your point?
run and gun is not obviously what you do a lot. but that is ok. please note: I never questioned you photography.
what we are talking about is very specific preferences that run and gun shooters would learn to use and know it works any time of the day, year or age.
yes, you can get away shooting in auto shutter speed but you cannot guarantee outcomes. I hope it explains.

what sets a professional from an amateur apart, is the ability to predict and guarantee outcome each time. there is no tolerance for error in such a fast pace environment nor you can afford to have one.

let 's break it down to those 4 point i brought in y previous post.

1. auto shutter speed options is available in 5D III. you owned 5D III, don't you? you should see this screen before. I understand you was unsure about it, that is ok. you never needed to use one. right?

there is no explicit explanation what the auto shutter speed is in the 5d III user manual: the option is in the menu explanation is not available, see the image attached. that is ok to be mistaken. we are all humans.

here:

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/eos_AutoISO.shtml

Canon’s EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III and EOS 6D possess a host of new features and improvements, including a significant refinement of Auto ISO...

now, on page 3:

Shutter Speed

Auto: Camera will continue to try to maintain a shutter speed of at least 1 over the lens focal length, changing ISO to maintain this as long as possible. The camera will tend to pick lower ISOs and slower speeds when using standard or wide-angle lenses.

see the screen shot attached. shuiter speed : AUTO. explanation is per above.

3. your explanation regarding shutter speed bias was incorrect. I repeat : you cannot "bias" reciprocal rule, what is said above is incorrect. you can bias only total exposure value.
camera will tend to lower ISO first and only then use faster shutter speed.

4. auto shutter speed is available in AV and P mode only.

... Most of the circle of pros I associate myself with use this feature and is where I learned how to use it...

you obviously never used it prior to 6D II body as you believe that feature was not available in 5D III and your 7D || body. it is there. but now your learned about it. ok.

well how long ago then? you are apparently shooting professionally for 10 years but learned about auto shutter speed feature only now. and the option is available for 5 years already.
This does not surprise me a slight bit. it just tells me that you never ever ran into problems using the auto shutter speed option due to your very limited experience using the feature.
again, i do not question your photography . you have an eye for composition, i like your framing and and photography. i said this already 10 times already. but that does not imply that your know everything and about everything.

"... Surprised there hasn't been more of 6DMKII is sh*t and the 5DMKIV is the only camera you can get decent images from..."

when and where did I said this? can you substantiate your claim? citation needed..

I was shooting with 2 6D bodies with single usable AF point and was able to deliver satisfactory results.

it is uncomfortable though. very inconvenient shooting with limited body.

 

[tomscott]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

Tom,

tone it down for starters. I did not even mentioned your name. I never said that 6d II is a bad camera. I made comment that 6D II is not the right tool for my personal situation, you can shoot with whatever you choose to shoot. Not sure why you are so emotional about it.

yes, auto shutter speed is recipy for disaster for one simple reason:

you can control how low shutter speed will end up being. yes, you can crank up auto ISO to 12800, but then you will find that a lot of images were taken at higher iso than you wanted them to be. much higher.

yes, some people shoot in auto iISO. some even shoot in A mode or P mode. what is your point?
run and gun is not obviously what you do a lot. but that is ok. please note: I never questioned you photography.
what we are talking about is very specific preferences that run and gun shooters would learn to use and know it works any time of the day, year or age.
yes, you can get away shooting in auto shutter speed but you cannot guarantee outcomes. I hope it explains.

what differentiate professional form amateur, is the ability to predict and guarantee outcome each time. there is 0 tolerance for error in such a fast pace environment nor you can afford to have one.

let 's break it down to those 4 point i brought in y previous post.

1. auto shutter speed options is available in 5D III. you owned 5D III, don't you? you should see this screen before. I understand you was unsure about it, that is ok. you never needed to use one. right?

there is no explicit explanation what the auto shutter speed is in the 5d III user manual: the option is in the menu explanation is not available, see the image attached. that is ok to be mistaken. we are all humans.

here:

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/eos_AutoISO.shtml

Canon’s EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III and EOS 6D possess a host of new features and improvements, including a significant refinement of Auto ISO...

now, on page 3:

Shutter Speed

Auto: Camera will continue to try to maintain a shutter speed of at least 1 over the lens focal length, changing ISO to maintain this as long as possible. The camera will tend to pick lower ISOs and slower speeds when using standard or wide-angle lenses.

see the screen shot attached. shuiter speed : AUTO. explanation is per above.

3. your explanation regarding shutter speed bias was incorrect. I repeat : you cannot "bias" reciprocal rule, what is said above is incorrect. you can bias only total exposure value.
camera will tend to lower ISO first and only then use faster shutter speed.

4. auto shutter speed is available in AV and P mode only.

... Most of the circle of pros I associate myself with use this feature and is where I learned how to use it...

you obviously never used it prior to 6D II body as you believe that feature was not available in 5D III and your 7D || body. it is there. but now your learned about it. ok.

well how long ago then? you are apparently shooting professionally for 10 years but learned about auto shutter speed feature only now. and the option is available for 5 years already.
This does not surprise me a slight bit. it just tells me that you never ever ran into problems using the auto shutter speed option due to your very limited experience using the feature.
again, i do not question your photography . you have an eye for composition, i like your framing and and photography. i said this already 10 times already. but that does not imply that your know everything and about everything.

Yet you shoot with 2 6Ds and a MKII isnt the right camera for you. You have 10s of k invested in canon glass and you need best sensor for that investment AKA a 5DMKIV and I should be exactly the same... yet you haven't bought one yet and run and gun with 2 6ds it doesn't add up im afraid. Make your mind up.

Im not sure how shooting weddings and events isnt run and gun so that must mean im an amateur :

I have been using auto ISO for years but in places I trusted it like I said above in changeable but decent light.

I apologize I didn't realise auto was in the menu for the 5DMKIII I would set 1/60th as a minimum manually and that worked for me with standard lenses.

The menu system in the 6DII and 7DMKII gives you a more graphic explanation with the ability to bias this faster or slower so yes 1/focal length and increases ISO so when you zoom but you can increase that minimum with the bias +1 +2 +3 you couldnt do that in the 5DMKIII you could only set a minimum. The bias changes with every lens you put on the camera so you dont have to go back in. If you are using wider lenses you can ensure you will still get a sharp image with 24mm above as an example in increments.

I apologise if this was in the 5DMKIII but I thought this was a new feature and is the reason that I made a point of it. The bias can be really useful. It would be more useful if you could have this setting for every lens you use as each extreme is different 16mm vs 400mm for example.

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

much better now, thank you. let me address your queries:

Yet you shoot with 2 6Ds and a MKII isnt the right camera for you.

I was shooting with 2 x 6D in the past. there are things that we want and things that we need.
I sold first 6D and bought 5D III, second 6D will be traded for 5D IV the moment a nice , mint low shutter 5D IV body will surface on local classifieds site. I have got cash set aside.

6d II feature set was not enough reason for me to upgrade from 6D level body. I shoot most events with a single AF point. the old good centre aF point. Focus and recompose was happy with IQ, was unhapy with:

AF system capabilities beyond focus and recompose technique. I wanted 5D / 7D level AF system flexibility,
AF joystick ( yes, you can mange with two wheels but it is uncomfortable), I wanted wider AF point spread. better button customisation, dual card slot. and .. ready?

I.hate.DoF.button.position.on.6D. bodies. I. hate. it. full. stop.

now,on my 5D III i set Dof button to Spot AF. very useful!I use my ring finger to push DoF button to switch to Spot AF while I holding it. beautiful, Tom! just when you need to land AF precisely.. priceless.

unfortunately, none of these options are available with 6D II - it is AF system is not as powerful as the one of 5D/7d/1D level body. just not quite.

you have 10s of k invested in canon glass and you need best sensor for that investment AKA a 5DMKIV and I should be exactly the same... yet you haven't bought one yet and run and gun with 2 6ds it doesn't add up im afraid. Make your mind up.

)) ah, pure gold. I made up my mind, Tom. see above. I am in the process of moving away from 6D level bodies. that is ok now. seriously, my logic is still reasonably strong despite 50+ yeas of walking this beautiful planet.
next one..
i never said I need best sensor. did I?
I am happy with 6D body sensor in general, but 5D IV body has better sensor so it is all included, right? nothing to complain about. better, High iSO, better low ISO, better pixel level sharpnes - your old lens delivers better inages all that sudden. what is not to love?

I did not say you should upgrade. I said the following: I see you (Tom) stepping up to 5D level body soon..meaning that once the opportunity presented itself and you are in a better position to spend dollars/pounds on it, you will likely upgrade but now that you have different priorities, you have to get done more with less. i said this because i see you doing well and wish you well in the future so that you can afford shooting with a better body (is). done, thank you!

10Ks of dollars invested - yes, correct. not sure what does not add up for you? you mean: I do not own that much glass or do not have 2 bodies.. what? seriously i do not understand.

As I explained, I was panning to upgrade but was not sure until 6D II was released. That didn't match my expectation and I moved to 5D level. simple.

if you do not believe that I own that much glass, I can take a photo of my lenses and bodies and send it to you but somehow I do not believe this is strictly a requirement. i have no reason to tell you lies.

well, shooting weddings with 7D II is not an ideal situation either. it is not the best at least. right?

 

[Frodo]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

Hi Tom

Thanks for your response. I'm pleased that you can reliably obtain sharp images at a shutter speed of 1/focal length, because I can't - my success rate is about 50%.
When shooting events, I like to control depth of field so set the camera at aperture priority, with auto-ISO. This may mean that the auto shutter speed will drop too low for my handholding or for subject movement. Specifying a fixed minimum shutter speed is fine when shooting with just one fixed lens, but not when using a zoom or multiple primes. I prefer not to have to worry about stuff like that in the action of events.
Hence, my question about changing the auto speed setting in auto-ISO.
I'm pleased to see that your last screen shot shows that this is possible.
This could be a simple firmware update for the 6D!

Thanks, Bob

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

Hey Tom. Thanks for uploading more of your photos and experience with the 6D 2. Lovely wedding photos. Your client should be very pleased. I'm a complete washout as a wedding photographer myself. Just not my thing.

I got completely lost trying to sort out what you guys were talking about with auto ISO. Why not just shoot in M with autoISO setting. Set desired shutter speed and aperture and let ISO auto adjust. You couldn't really do that very well on 5D3 as there was not exposure compensation but I thought Canon has sorted that on recent bodies. Not saying there aren't other ways to do it but I shoot 90% of my handheld work that way. If the ISO runs too high I make an adjustment. Wondering if you can't do that on the 6D2 for some reason. I generally don't like to let the camera automatically alter more than one variable or I feel like things can get away from me. Just curious. Thanks again. Sounds like the new camera is really working out great for you.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

Hey Tom. Thanks for uploading more of your photos and experience with the 6D 2. Lovely wedding photos. Your client should be very pleased. I'm a complete washout as a wedding photographer myself. Just not my thing.

I got completely lost trying to sort out what you guys were talking about with auto ISO. Why not just shoot in M with autoISO setting. Set desired shutter speed and aperture and let ISO auto adjust. You couldn't really do that very well on 5D3 as there was not exposure compensation but I thought Canon has sorted that on recent bodies. Not saying there aren't other ways to do it but I shoot 90% of my handheld work that way. If the ISO runs too high I make an adjustment. Wondering if you can't do that on the 6D2 for some reason. I generally don't like to let the camera automatically alter more than one variable or I feel like things can get away from me. Just curious. Thanks again. Sounds like the new camera is really working out great for you.

Thinking about similar things yesterday, it seems to me that the solution would be a simple algorithm that would dictate the lens and camera's behaviour in the changing circumstances - if, then, else, with user input. However, probably most people find the present button programmability already confusing enough. Manual with auto ISO serves me fine.

Jack

 

[stevelee]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

I'm backing off thinking about getting the 6D2 any time soon. I took a lot of photos of the eclipse with my T3i and mediocre at best 75-300mm lens, and they turned out great, other than the few I didn't get the focus spot on. The sunspots before totality are really clear, and the bit of CA doesn't seem to hurt the pictures that much. It has made me wonder why I am even thinking of upgrading anything. Logically, a better telephoto would be a more reasonable investment than getting a full-frame body. And I don't shoot telephoto pictures that much other than the sun and the moon. Maybe I should plan to upgrade the lens by 2024, maybe even the body. I understand the 6D2 doesn't even have enough dynamic range to get shadow detail through an 18-stop filter.

I'm only partly kidding. Maybe as I consider my under-used and under-appreciated current gear, perhaps I'll use it more and appreciate it more before I'm ready to move on. And maybe if enough trolls and naysayers tamp down demand, the price will come down a little by the time I'm ready to buy.

I realize that having thousands of dollars charged to my credit card recently for an upcoming trip to Hawaii and cruise around the islands, etc., has dampened a bit my "I can afford it so why wait to buy it" attitude. And it's not like I plan to take a DSLR (current or future) with me on the trip when my G7X II does such great travel pictures and fits in my pocket.

I still don't regret passing on the 80D to wait to see what this camera would be like, though the delay was somewhat longer than I was expecting. And who knows? Next week I might be posting images I shot with my new 6D2 as the post-eclipse and post-credit-card-shock effects fade. And it's just over a month to my birthday, and I don't know what else to get me.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

When a person is really enthused about photography the excitement that comes from getting better pictures causes a snowball effect of wanting to photograph more. Out of that comes a greater love and interest in improving and expanding the initial interest.

It's been almost 5 years. My first DSLR was a Nikon D5100 and it whetted my appetite enough to know I wanted to go FF. The 6D with L glass then just fired me up so much that now I'm rolling along with the 1DX2 and having a ball. Sure, I can't justify this level of gear as an enthusiast but it's giving me the impetus to try to get better, to be the best I can be since there is no excuse, I can't blame my camera and lenses.

That's not to say I couldn't be happy with the D5100 if that was all I could afford but turning back the clock if I had it and the 6D2 came along I wouldn't hesitate for a second. I guess it comes down to, is your heart in your photography.

Jack

 

[Nat_WA]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

When a person is really enthused about photography the excitement that comes from getting better pictures causes a snowball effect of wanting to photograph more. Out of that comes a greater love and interest in improving and expanding the initial interest.

It's been almost 5 years. My first DSLR was a Nikon D5100 and it whetted my appetite enough to know I wanted to go FF. The 6D with L glass then just fired me up so much that now I'm rolling along with the 1DX2 and having a ball. Sure, I can't justify this level of gear as an enthusiast but it's giving me the impetus to try to get better, to be the best I can be since there is no excuse, I can't blame my camera and lenses.

That's not to say I couldn't be happy with the D5100 if that was all I could afford but turning back the clock if I had it and the 6D2 came along I wouldn't hesitate for a second. I guess it comes down to, is your heart in your photography.

Jack

True enough!
Eventually it is all about the pictures you take, the gear just enables and inspires to try more / try to get better.
Speaking for myself - I didn't need the 7DmkII, but it has inspired me to also try my luck at BiF and other "moving animals"/ sports.
The 6DmkII seems like a great tool and affordable entry point for FF!

Wiebe.

 

[bholliman]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

Thanks for sharing the wonderful images and your experiences with the 6DII Tom. Some are busy dumping on this camera in internet forums and other, like you, are out using it to take great pictures with it.

 

[stevelee]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

When a person is really enthused about photography the excitement that comes from getting better pictures causes a snowball effect of wanting to photograph more. Out of that comes a greater love and interest in improving and expanding the initial interest.

It's been almost 5 years. My first DSLR was a Nikon D5100 and it whetted my appetite enough to know I wanted to go FF. The 6D with L glass then just fired me up so much that now I'm rolling along with the 1DX2 and having a ball. Sure, I can't justify this level of gear as an enthusiast but it's giving me the impetus to try to get better, to be the best I can be since there is no excuse, I can't blame my camera and lenses.

That's not to say I couldn't be happy with the D5100 if that was all I could afford but turning back the clock if I had it and the 6D2 came along I wouldn't hesitate for a second. I guess it comes down to, is your heart in your photography.

Jack

True enough!
Eventually it is all about the pictures you take, the gear just enables and inspires to try more / try to get better.
Speaking for myself - I didn't need the 7DmkII, but it has inspired me to also try my luck at BiF and other "moving animals"/ sports.
The 6DmkII seems like a great tool and affordable entry point for FF!

Wiebe.

Good points from you both. If/when I get a FF camera, I'm sure I'll shoot more pictures. Even if they aren't really any better than the shots I get with my G7X II, for all practical purposes and not just pixel peeking, it will be worth it. One thing I'll probably do is rent a TS lens for a week (likely the 24mm) and have a "staycation" of planned shooting and playing around with the lens. I'm retired, so in a way whenever I'm home it is a staycation, but I would minimize time spent on other things for that week. The time limit of the week would be a good thing, I think.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

@stevelee I passed on the 5D3 to get the 6D because my focus was on getting the best hand-holdable longer lens I couldn't afford/justify. At the time, for me that was 300 2.8 II with 1.4X & 2X because I love shooting wildlife. I would always recommend a "best" lens possible ahead of a "best" camera.

The lens more than the camera has spurred me onward. 420 -> 600 -> 800 for the reach that for small birds is never enough. For others the lens of lust is different because of different subject interests but there will be a lens that will encourage most enthusiasts to greater photo taking involvement. Gear lust and subsequent essentially frivolous purchases may do just the opposite.

Jack

 

[dak723]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

I'm backing off thinking about getting the 6D2 any time soon. I took a lot of photos of the eclipse with my T3i and mediocre at best 75-300mm lens, and they turned out great, other than the few I didn't get the focus spot on. The sunspots before totality are really clear, and the bit of CA doesn't seem to hurt the pictures that much. It has made me wonder why I am even thinking of upgrading anything. Logically, a better telephoto would be a more reasonable investment than getting a full-frame body....

I would strongly recommend renting a FF body and seeing first hand whether or not the results differ enough for you. I know this type of opinion is not the norm for this type of forum, but I too was enticed by lure of FF and ultimately found it not worth it. Not to say that I won't consider FF again in the future, but going from crop to FF differed very little in IQ. Of course, this will depend on how large you might print (I found essentially no difference printing 8" x 10" or so), how large your monitor is, etc. The biggest difference is on low light photography and higher ISOs which I never shoot. I do a lot of flower photography and the narrower DOF with the FF ultimately led me to buy another crop body anyway as I needed more DOF and more reach. After owning the FF (6D) for about 3 years, I sold it to get the M5 - mainly for size and weight reasons. In my opinion, if needing a shallower DOF and shooting at higher ISOs are not priorities for you, then you may find less difference between your crop camera and FF than you think. But again, only you can answer that question and renting (or borrowing) a FF camera will give you more and better info than you will get on this forum.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

dak723 makes a valid point. For me the journey to higher ISOs with less noise has been the icing on the cake. Never thought I'd shoot an ISO 12800 that could be called decent, provided it's not cropped. Again I'm talking wildlife and seldom enough light considering the shutter speeds.

Jack

 

[tomscott]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

Ive been out all weekend photographing deer, wildlife is a something I'm really passionate about and was looking forward to giving the camera a good run out. It was really impressive!

100-400mm MKII is super sharp the resolution bump which not many people have talked about makes quite a big difference. I was out today photographing red deer and they are super skittish so had the 1.4x on the 100-400mm and very happy with the results having more than the centre point for F8 is really fantastic for composition.

Will upload some images when in the next couple of days.

Also been shooting in the studio and have some examples to share also.

 

[stevelee]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

I don't shoot wildlife very often, and when I do, I don't need too long a lens. I see a lot of birds on my deck rail, and the trees are just beyond. The lot slopes enough that the deck level is about 20 feet off the ground, so I can look at birds while sitting in the den with its three huge windows or at the kitchen table while I eat. I sometimes shoot birds through the windows, such as when some large raptor was on the deck rail after a rain letting its wings dry out before flying off. I just grabbed the iPhone for that and sent the picture to a friend who used to keep a pet hawk or something like that, to see if he could ID the species. I enjoy bird photos of others, but don't feel motivated to shoot them myself.

The deer are fairly tame and don't always run when I walk out back and we encounter each other. Maybe if I pointed a camera at them, they might not appreciate the difference between photography and other types of shooting.

I do wish I had shot video of something I saw out the den window. The white cat from next door, but who really stays on my front porch a lot, was back at the edge of the woods looking like she was stalking something. A deer with her tongue hanging out walked over to the cat looking as if she were going to lick her. The cat was going berserk, and eventually ran off past the deer toward the front of our houses, and the deer took off after her. Strange animal behavior. Fortunately a college classmate was visiting, and he saw it, too, so I didn't think I was the one going nuts.

So anyhow, I don't really take telephoto shots that much, and the 100mm macro does a good job as a 160mm substitute on the Rebel. I would buy something longer if I got a FF. I really liked and used the 200mm I had with my FT-QL, so maybe something in that range. In my non-zoom era of the 70s, I would take a 28, 85, and 200 with me, and that worked well. I have been less than pleased with the 75-300mm zoom in terms of sharpness and such, but as I said, I was pleasantly surprised by the eclipse photos. And had already taken decent moon shots, if you pardon a bit of CA:

A few years ago I took the Rebel with that lens to a football game at the college here. I was shooting from the stands, mostly video. I had no particular purpose, just messing around with the camera. I was surprised that 75mm (120 eq.) was too tight to show the whole play even on the other side of the 50 yd. line.

The low light performance of the T3i leaves a lot to be desired, so either the 80D or the 6D2 would be a big step up. I think here is where we get to the chicken-egg part. I don't shoot so much low light stuff, but I think that is because of the camera limitation, rather than that being a reason not to buy a camera with better high ISO performance. Right now ISO 800 is about my limit. I don't think I'd go wrong getting either of those bodies, really.

Thanks to you guys for your helpful comments for me to consider.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

@stevelee We're all raised differently and have our personal preferences. My four kids don't all share my enthusiasm for nature in spite of my efforts to instill it. From what you describe at your back door I'd have as high a quality long lens as I could afford and be going nuts getting shots of all the wildlife and it'd probably all be above 800 ISO.

The strange behaviour scenario presented itself to me one day and my lack of expertise left me with poorer shots than I'd have liked but there was a whole sequence between a neighbour's cat and a young fox. I still chuckle! For me this is what I call FUN.

Heavy crops, 6D 300 X2 and one reason why I now have 1DX2 400DO X2. I can't fully blame the camera other than 4 fps. A cell phone wouldn't have cut it for me but then that's just me.

Jack

 

[stevelee]

Re: First 6DMKII photoshoot (WEDDING IMAGES P3)

@stevelee We're all raised differently and have our personal preferences. My four kids don't all share my enthusiasm for nature in spite of my efforts to instill it. From what you describe at your back door I'd have as high a quality long lens as I could afford and be going nuts getting shots of all the wildlife and it'd probably all be above 800 ISO.

The strange behaviour scenario presented itself to me one day and my lack of expertise left me with poorer shots than I'd have liked but there was a whole sequence between a neighbour's cat and a young fox. I still chuckle! For me this is what I call FUN.

Heavy crops, 6D 300 X2 and one reason why I now have 1DX2 400DO X2. I can't fully blame the camera other than 4 fps. A cell phone wouldn't have cut it for me but then that's just me.

Jack

Neat sequence. I'll pass that along to my friend who saw the cat and deer incident if I can.

Have you seen any of Doug Gardner's shows on PBS and the Create channel? I particularly enjoyed the episode where he was photographing salamanders in the wild. (I think that was one of his.) Some of the shows are on YouTube. He talks about technique including camera settings.

You would have loved where I lived 10-15 years ago. It was in a fairly populated area, but way back off the road. The big yard was surrounded by woods on three sides. The fourth side faced a softball field, and there was a cemetery between it and the road. I routinely saw foxes, raccoons, wild turkeys, rabbits, deer, and other critters in my yard. I would set up my telescope in the back yard where the house would block light from the street lights. I would see eyes shining in the woods, and I wasn't sure whether they were predator or prey, or if I was the potential prey. When it snowed, I would see all sorts of tracks through the yard.

A 600mm lens might be a little much for the deer, given the distance I see them here, maybe for head shots. This time of year I don't see birds back in the woods very much because the thickness of foliage. Late fall and winter is better. I see lots of cardinals when it snows. I don't know if they come here more, or if they show up more, or if I just look out more. Maybe all three. The neighbors have bird feeders, and they used to have on high in a big tree behind their house. I don't know how or when they put the feed up there. But the tree fell several years ago and left an open space where it had been. The forest continues to recover from the construction of our homes. Here is a cardinal I saw at that feeder in January, 2009:

That was taken at ISO 800 on my old XSi, same telephoto lens at 300mm (480 eq.), cropped a bit and then resized for the web. I was nice and warm indoors, taking the photo though the window. Notice that I am shooting down a bit. I have more cardinal pictures and got at least two other species that time, including I guess a bluejay. So I'm not averse to nature photography. I just do it seasonally and comfortably for the most part. I do like to chase down bugs with my macro lens, but haven't done a lot of that. The XSi was a lot worse on noise than the T3i with which I replaced it.