Fuel for the fire: Amazon DSLR Rankings...and no REAL 2012-2013 market data?
- Thread starter jrista
- Start date
jrista said:
I just wanted to point out that Nikon Sport Optics exists, http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/index.page
This covers their binocular, scopes, and hunting/rifle optics (which they tend not to advertise openly to avoid controversy).
See http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html
This is definitely part of their imaging business, see here:
http://nikon.com/about/ir/management/business_info/imaging/index.htm
"Digital cameras, film cameras, interchangeable lenses, speedlights, accessories, software, sport optics"
Upvote
0
I just clicked your link, and 6 of the top 10 were Canon bodies, and 4 were Nikon. I think that means that a list that updates hourly is almost useless 
Upvote
0
neuroanatomist said:
I used both 5d iii and 5d 3. But not "Canon"
When using the above search your results will include a range of Canon DSLR's etc. apart from the 5D3 (see the specification of your results).
Not sure how the search string can be improved - maybe by using qoute marks around 5D Mark III / 3
Any google wizards have a clue?
Upvote
0
L
Loswr
Guest
Maiaibing said:
Not sure what you mean by 'include a range of Canon DSLR's etc. apart from the 5D3 (see the specification of your results)'.
Below is a combined search (the yellow is "Canon 5D Mark III" truncated) – other than "D810" obviously meaning something all the way back to 2005, there's no real difference in the conclusion. Note that searching "5D Mark II" vs. "5D Mark III" gives very different results.
EDIT: added second screenshot. You can see that searching "5DIII" or "5D3" is quite different. If those were the terms you used as shorthand for "5D Mark III", that is likely the issue.
Attachments
Upvote
0
unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
jrista said:
Yes, except that, at least in Canon's case, they take an integrated business approach. When the worldwide recession hit Canon's office products division hard they were able to use profits from their imaging division to offset losses and weather the storm. With the collapse of the point and shoot market, they have used their office and other divisions to maintain profitability overall. (This was all detailed in past investor calls and reports)
So, one of the main points that Neuro and others have emphasized is that overall profitability of a company is important to consumers because it determines whether or not a company has the resources to invest in R&D and has the reserves to weather changes in the marketplace.
This is why many of us are willing to cut Canon a little slack over miniscule differences in sensor performance. Because we are taking a long term approach to our investment in the company's equipment and we want the company to remain profitable over that long term. In the end, that results in a better product for us.
Upvote
0
jrista said:
That seems to be correct, the last figures I can find seem to show that in 2010 the Sports Optics part of the Nikon Imaging Division was responsible for only 1.2 Billion Yen in income (just under 1%).
However, I wanted to point out to you that both Canon and Nikon have non photography elements within their imaging divisions and your assertion that Nikon's imaging division "is just digital photography (plus accessories)."(as opposed to Canons) is incorrect, and unfair.
Upvote
0
jrista said:
It was popular, but buyers could not get them. I went to my local camera store, and he got me one in two weeks. I used it for a month with high end Nikon glass, At ISO 100, it was great. But, I was using ISO 12800 in a dark theater, and my 1D MK IV was doing a better job.
I sold the D800 with 5,000 actuations for about $200 more than I paid. That was just before the issue with the off center focus points was revealed. Sales seemed to slump after that. Finally, all those who thought they were going to improve their photography with 36mp, but were frustrated with slow post processing (those high ISO nef images expand to about 200mb) started dumping their cameras.
I hope the D810 is better, but I've learned my lesson, and do not plan to fall for the wonderful glowing reviews that later turn to harsh criticism.
Upvote
0
jrista said:
You may feel that is the case, but I just honestly wanted to see if you would have the integrity to admit your mistake.
If you could understand why making a statement where you compare the imaging businesses of both Canon and Nikon and assert that:
,jrista] Nikon's imaging business is just digital photography (plus accessories).[/quote] (Compared to a more diverse Canon portfolio) Which is factually incorrect as we have seen said:
jrista said:
As we do not have access to the latest figures we cannot see how Nikon's Sports Optics have faired in their stated goal to expand into new markets such as India and China and whether they have been able to increase their global market share, and therefore what their current contribution towards Nikon Imaging's total income is.
Anyhow I'm not going to post further on this matter as my sole aim was to try to understand if you were capable of critical thought, I will leave others to draw their own conclusions.
Upvote
0
The Amazon metrics do not have any real basis as the driver is really new camera releases, which Canon for the most part has been limited in the last few years at the top end of their lines which is where Canon really drives sales - i.e. 1Dx, 5D MKIII, 7D. Yes there has been 6D, 60D, 70D, t5i, etc... and say with the 70D, I think a lot of that has been for video, but again, what I see as a general formula is
New top body = sales (X) +.5x Prior Body Upgrade.
As an example, when the 810 came out I saw a ton of 800s for sale, just as there were a ton of 5D MK IIs for sale, when the 5D MK III came out.
Even though a lot of people have moved on from the 7D, a lot of people have held on or maybe gone a bridge model, but if Canon releases a decent replacement, you can expect to see not only a lot of sales of that camera, but a lot of 7Ds as well.
Amazon also tends to be more of a consumer market than a Pro / Prosumer - as a point of reference, no 1Dx of D4 D4s D3 D3x in the top 100.
New top body = sales (X) +.5x Prior Body Upgrade.
As an example, when the 810 came out I saw a ton of 800s for sale, just as there were a ton of 5D MK IIs for sale, when the 5D MK III came out.
Even though a lot of people have moved on from the 7D, a lot of people have held on or maybe gone a bridge model, but if Canon releases a decent replacement, you can expect to see not only a lot of sales of that camera, but a lot of 7Ds as well.
Amazon also tends to be more of a consumer market than a Pro / Prosumer - as a point of reference, no 1Dx of D4 D4s D3 D3x in the top 100.
Upvote
0
jrista said:I think that is one of Nikon's biggest problems. They have had supply issues for years. If it wasn't for Nikon supply issues, I might have purchased a Nikon camera back in 2008. I ended up getting the 450D for a steal, and it was in stock all the time, so I ended up a Canon fan. If Nikon had kept their cameras in-stock at the local stores, I'd have probably had one quite some time before I settled on the 450D. (Although, sadly, that might have been because I was a naive twit at the time...and almost listened to...*shudder*...Ken Rockwell!)
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Same. At least Nikon acknowledged the white spots issue quickly this time. They were more Canon-like in their response.
I think this is a cracking example of what people are saying when challenged with Canon's supposed lack of innovation. We've got into this consumer thing of wanting the latest, greatest stuff quickly. A company that can deliver what they do reliably with the highest quality is always going to be at disadvantage when compared with those that chase the latest shiny thing beyond their means to support it. And I know which I prefer.
Upvote
0
Maui5150 said:
A good point, Canon's path of less frequent upgrades likely means sales get compressed into smaller time frames. In the last 12 months Nikon have released the D4s, D810, D610, Df, D7100, D5300, D3300, V3, J4 and S2 where as Canon have only released the 70D, 1200D and M2.
The production delays for the 70D sensor are I'd guess a big factor here, in the next 12 months we'll likely see a 7D mk2, a Rebel and 1-2 M bodies with that sensor or something similar plus potentially FF updates as well.
Upvote
0
My posts might be limited, but I have lurked on here for a number of years, I'd rather lurk than post tripe.
Your arrogance is sickening, your original assessment is completely incorrect, and you should take a long hard look at how you interact with others.
Here is a visual breakdown of Nikon's product businesses from their own website:
http://nikon.com/about/ir/management/business_info/index.htm
Where is Sports Optics positioned? Is it in their Precision Equipment Business, no, how about their Instruments Business, no again, well its got to be under other businesses right? Oh wait, it forms part of their Imaging Products Business and is listed as such under their financial reports too.
Just in case you think this structure was different before 2014:
http://www.nikon.com/about/ir/ir_library/ar/pdf/ar2012/12annual_e.pdf
Page 57
"4. During the consolidated fiscal year ended March 31, 2012, the sport optics products business, formerly included in “Other” business, was transferred to the “Imaging Products” business. Due to this change, the segment information for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2011 was prepared according to the revised business segment. As a result of revising the business segments, sales to outside customers, intersegment sales or transfers, segment profits, segment assets, depreciation and amortization, and increase in tangible/intangible fixed assets for the Imaging Products Business increased by ¥553 million, ¥14 million, ¥1,226 million, ¥655 million, ¥267 million, and ¥150 million, respectively."
Please continue your discussions with other members, I'm out.
You clearly weren't looking very hard, their Businesses are listed in their financial reports which you seem to have indicated you had read and on their website which I previously linked for you. I and others have clearly pointed out to you that Nikon Sport Optics falls under their Imaging Business.jrista said:
jrista said:
Your arrogance is sickening, your original assessment is completely incorrect, and you should take a long hard look at how you interact with others.
Here is a visual breakdown of Nikon's product businesses from their own website:
http://nikon.com/about/ir/management/business_info/index.htm
Where is Sports Optics positioned? Is it in their Precision Equipment Business, no, how about their Instruments Business, no again, well its got to be under other businesses right? Oh wait, it forms part of their Imaging Products Business and is listed as such under their financial reports too.
Just in case you think this structure was different before 2014:
http://www.nikon.com/about/ir/ir_library/ar/pdf/ar2012/12annual_e.pdf
Page 57
"4. During the consolidated fiscal year ended March 31, 2012, the sport optics products business, formerly included in “Other” business, was transferred to the “Imaging Products” business. Due to this change, the segment information for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2011 was prepared according to the revised business segment. As a result of revising the business segments, sales to outside customers, intersegment sales or transfers, segment profits, segment assets, depreciation and amortization, and increase in tangible/intangible fixed assets for the Imaging Products Business increased by ¥553 million, ¥14 million, ¥1,226 million, ¥655 million, ¥267 million, and ¥150 million, respectively."
Please continue your discussions with other members, I'm out.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
