Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?

[Daniel Flather]

Just stating a unsupported opinion as fact is not very impressive and leavs a trollish taste in my mouth.

Unsupported opinion as fact is acceptable, 47% of people are aware of this and accept it.

 

[aznable]

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/25/canon-announces-q3-2012-results-operating-profit-drops-by-42-pe/

nikon got a similar drop in the first six months of the FY...the profit in 6 months are 66% of canon profits in the quarter

first quarter of nikon

Three months ended June 30, 2012
259,431 5.6
23,368 (36.7)
23,403 (38.0)
15,770 (48.6)

profits dropped by 48.6%

six months of FY
First Half ended September 30, 2012
497,243 2.2
37,103 (39.3)
39,524 (39.3)
32,022 (36.5)

in usd the net income is 402.930.000 in six months

profits for canon's terrible quarter are 630.875.000

another strong quarter of nikon , and in 9 months they will catch the terrible quarter of canon

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Just stating a unsupported opinion as fact is not very impressive and leavs a trollish taste in my mouth.

Unsupported opinion as fact is acceptable, 47% of people are aware of this and accept it.

Well, there do seem to be plenty who believe that way. I guess that having worked for now Ford CEO Allen Mulally, I was brainwashed into being a data driven manager

 

[kdsand]

ah
1st off , people jump to fast. We know canon & nikon leap frog or as least pace each other. For a pro an edge in a given year might be crucial but not so much for the rest of us.
2nd what's up with having an issue with firmware / updates? That seem like a non issue to me, i like updates.
Canon does have their head stuck in the sand in some irritating ways like caps & hoods but its getting better.

 

[kdsand]

My concern is the rate at which the local photo community is switching to Nikon. With profitability already down Canon is yielding significant market share to innovative and high quality Nikon products and that means less money, also for R&D, resulting in less capable kit, resulting in less sales, resulting in less money…..

Yes right, as the majority of Canon users have fullframe cameras and lots of L lenses...

Ur probably in the top <5% of users with ur gear. 5 Bodies and 16 L lenses u say?

...

Sorry its crying on a VERY high level.

Im running around with mostly old manual focus m42 lenses on my (guess in ur view) "lousy aps-c 1100d eos" cuz i just cant afford anything better. For me it wasnt cheap tough still. If you so unhappy with ur announced-dead canon gear i surely take some of it for free. I think my whole apartement interior isnt even worth enough to buy _one_ L lens.
And anyway if ur that wealthy why dont u just get a Nikon body with a tele lens so u can use it on ur safaris? For the rest u can perhaps keep your down-the-graveyard-spiral canon gear.

sorry im a bit angry and feel so poor now T_T

I feel your pain. Especially when it sounds like a weekend warrior with tens of thousands of dollar in toys.

 

[dr croubie]

(vintage Leitz primes for the Leica-R mount: awesome glass, real cheap...)

Where the hell are you getting Leica R primes "real cheap". They're some of the most expensive per age lenses anywhere (eclipsed only by Leica M glass). If you've got a source, I'd love a 19mm for less than $700 please.

 

[gmrza]

Should they rather focus on the point and shoot consumer market and leave the high end stuff to professionals?

That would surely be one-way a ticket to the graveyard, since the competition from mobile phones is steadily eliminating the entire consumer P&S market.

....they are going to continue losing market share to Nikon in my opinion.

So, you're saying that Nikon is going to continue their trend of gaining market share from Canon. A trend that has lasted for exactly the one most recent quarter of the last four years. Okay-dokay, we'll see...

Canon will also be acutely aware of any gains Nikon makes. For instance, the D3s certainly had an advantage over the 1DmkIV. By all of the accounts I have seen, the 1Dx and D4 seem to be close enough to each other that any difference is academic.

Canon has certainly jumped ahead in the flash department with the 600-EX-RT and ST-E3. Nikon does not have anything like that yet. (It is a matter of time, I believe.)

Nikon still has not caught up in terms of the depth and breadth of lens selection Canon has.

Either way, competition is good, and innovation from Nikon will push Canon - and vice versa. I doubt that anyone would be making a mistake right now choosing either Canon or Nikon. Both of them make their slip-ups, but on average, both are putting some pretty damn awesome products into the market. - The choice probably really comes down to personal preference.

The sad thing in this market is that, if you want a full frame DSLR, there are only two games in town. Everybody else has left the room and only Canon and Nikon are playing. That is the real tragedy of the market today. A serious third player (and Sony really doesn't count right now) would make a big difference, and keep Canon and Nikon on their toes.

 

[Daniel Flather]

Just stating a unsupported opinion as fact is not very impressive and leavs a trollish taste in my mouth.

Unsupported opinion as fact is acceptable, 47% of people are aware of this and accept it.

Well, there do seem to be plenty who believe that way. I guess that having worked for now Ford CEO Allen Mulally, I was brainwashed into being a data driven manager

 

[NormanBates]

(vintage Leitz primes for the Leica-R mount: awesome glass, real cheap...)

Where the hell are you getting Leica R primes "real cheap". They're some of the most expensive per age lenses anywhere (eclipsed only by Leica M glass). If you've got a source, I'd love a 19mm for less than $700 please.

$400 to $800 for a such a nice lens is "real cheap" to me: my 35mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4 and 90mm f/2.8 are outstanding lenses, probably better than anything Canon has to offer at at least twice the price (of course, Canon glass would have AF... but then again, it wouldn't work on a Nikon, Sony, Pentax, etc).

OTOH, I'm not sure the 19mm will be THAT nice. In fact I didn't even get the 24mm or 28mm: wide angles have improved a lot with computer design, old ones are usually way too soft in the corners.

 

[Kernuak]

he now shoots Canon

His gear list is all Nikon, save for the G12.

Maybe he is too busy actually taking world class images to update his gear list! Maybe, considering the furor over the 1D MkIII AF and his very public move to Nikon, he is keeping a major gear switch low key this time, but I have seen him shooting with the 1Dx.

He was certainly very public in his criticism of Canon cameras after his switch and would take every opportunity to joke about how bad they were in his talks, so I can see why he wouldn't want to shout too much this time. Incidentally, I spoke to someone else recently who said that since he reviewed the 1D X and then had it again for a second trial, Andy won't shoot with anything else. There have also been other Nikon shooters (including those who never used Canon) who have been considering switching (at least according to what they say on the web) since the 1D X and D4 were released. On the other side, someone that Andy was and is inspired by, Laurie Campbell, is still a committed Nikon shooter. Laurie has shot Nikon since the days of film, but he is also only interested in the right tools for him and not relatively minor technological advances.

 

[distant.star]

.
I don't know about Canon, but my brother has a nasty cold.

I sure hope he hasn't entered the graveyard spiral!!

 

[Kernuak]

.
I don't know about Canon, but my brother has a nasty cold.

I sure hope he hasn't entered the graveyard spiral!!

Depends whether its Asian flu or not .

 

[Plato the Wise]

Sounds like a personal problem.

Doesn't the 1d M4's native ISO range from 100-12800? Why would you be "limited" to 1600 ISO?

And if you are "limited" by auto flash ISO stuck on 400 ISO - switch it manually.

Sounds like a lot of whining and not enough thinking.

And as others have said - I don't think Canon will be going out of business any time soon.

 

[Zlatko]

..., the most frustrating feature is that the fitting of a flash to the 1D Mk4 forces Auto ISO to fix at 400. Damn nuisance if you are doing night work, want to work Manual at ISO 1600 with a fill flash and the clever Canon firmware decides that it is time to override your settings. The 1DX has the same problem feature. This could explain why 7 out of the 10 photographers that joined the leopard safari shot Nikon.

The original post has far too much erroneous doom & gloom for me to address, so I'll write about just one topic. The fitting of a flash to the 1D4 or any Canon EOS camera only forces the ISO to 400 if one is using Auto ISO or the green program mode. Why someone would feel this is a problem or limitation of the cameras is dumbfounding. The obvious answer is: don't use Auto ISO with flash. Remember that ISO can be set manually. Remember what we did before cameras had Auto ISO. Indeed, from the dawn of the film era through most of the digital era, the photographer set the ISO, either manually or via choice of film. Once set manually, the ISO stays set, flash or no flash. Auto ISO works great without flash. And flash works great with manual ISO. There is simply no problem with any of this. If this is putting a damper on someone's leopard safari, or making photographers switch to Nikon, well, they must be Auto-ISO-only shooters, which is rather oddly self-limiting.

 

[Patrick]

A good photographer with a cheap camera and a kit lens will produce better and more interesting images than an unskilled/creatively challenged photographer using a 1Dx or a D4 with a wide selection of quality glass. This is because a good photographer, while aware of the limitations of the equipment, will work in such a way as to maximise the quality of his images while his/her unskilled counterpart is still trying to work out what I just said and wondering if they should feel insulted or praised!

 

[Patrick]

he now shoots Canon

His gear list is all Nikon, save for the G12.

@Daniel...just had a look at Andy Rouse's site - his latest blog post (29th October 2012) include the following:

Anyway for now this will be all as I want to get it loaded up, all taken with 1DX, macro, 300 2.8 and various flash.....

So it looks like he had indeed gotten back into at least some Canon gear as well as/instead of Nikon.

 

[tnargs]

@iso79

Absolutely correct observation.

Never even been near a shutter release: http://lorettasteyn.blogspot.com/

dear oh me, I can see your problem. The sooner you change to Nikon the better.

 

[dtaylor]

On a recent leopard safari the Nikon D4 crowd simply ran away with shots compared to the best our 1D Mk4s could deliver. We are not only talking sensor performance, although we lived like lepers with only ISO 1600 max, the most frustrating feature is that the fitting of a flash to the 1D Mk4 forces Auto ISO to fix at 400.

While I do not question the flash issue, I couldn't help but laugh at the rest of your post.

* It's nonsense (or troll bait) to suggest that the 1D4 cannot shoot higher than ISO 1600.

* No way a D4 user should "run away" from a 1D4 user purely because of the camera. The D4 is newer/better, but simply not by any great amount.

* If Auto ISO wasn't working for me on a trip like that, I wouldn't use it, and no D4 user would "run away" from me.

All recently released bodies had significant problems and required post release upgrades and firmware replacement.

No, they did not.

A lot of noise being made about the 1DX, probably the best copy of a Nikon 3D that Canon ever produced, and is probably marginally better than the D3, I seems a capable camera but only if compared to the previous Nikon model.

Absolute nonsense. It is clearly competitive with the D4.

My concern is the rate at which the local photo community is switching to Nikon. With profitability already down Canon is yielding significant market share to innovative and high quality Nikon products and that means less money, also for R&D, resulting in less capable kit, resulting in less sales, resulting in less money…..

Last time I saw stats Canon still held #1 market share position. Do you have newer info? Source?

Should they rather focus on the point and shoot consumer market and leave the high end stuff to professionals?

TROLL ALERT

 

[bycostello]

wkth fuji, olympus and sony all nipping at their heels they better get to grips with stuff soon.... the canon m may of sold well... but if falls massivly short of what you'd expect.....

 

[Zv]

No speedliter in their right mind uses auto ISO. How is that an issue? And I would hardly call the 1DX and 5D mk III "half baked". Canon are taking their time with lens releases to get them right. I'm sure when the 200-400 comes out it will rock.

I don't understand this Nikon were running away with it comment either. Either you get the shot based on your skill and experience or you don't because of user error or luck. Only a bad photog blames equipment.

When was the last time you needed 35 megapixels? Am fine with 18 and even 21 seems like too much, I'm always sizing down files, which is fine I like the flexibility.

I do wish Canon had better high ISO performance but it's not a big deal, just use noise red software and get on with it.

Nikon make great gear, Canon makes great gear. we should be greatful there is choice instead of complaining about it!