Have you repaired your 50 Art?

[Ronak1003]

Hi,

I'm new here so kindly forgive my ignorance.

I sold my old system (5D Mark II + kit lens + nifty fifty) a while back in order to pursue a different art for a while. Am getting back to photography and have been researching the kit I want and am on the fence about the Sigmas - both the 35A & 50A. My camera will be a 5D Mark III and I've decided on buying only prime lenses. I foresee using the camera for general travel shots, landscapes & seascapes with an occasional astro when opportunity presents itself.

I'd like to know if these lenses exhibit the random front/back focusing problems only when using auto focus or its the same with manual too? I can't afford a Zeiss (non Otus as well) and if these lenses provide me with the IQ comparable to Otus at a fourth of the cost, I'm more than willing to ignore the auto focus and use manual full time. Since, I'll be using manual focus most often, should I invest in the sigma dock just to be able to do AFMA and try my luck with the AF as well?

Thank you for reading and hopefully helping me make the buying decision.

 

[NancyP]

It doesn't take much to be adept at MF on tripod shots live view assisted.
Thanks for the info on Reikan FoCal

 

[Eldar]

Hi,

I'm new here so kindly forgive my ignorance.

I sold my old system (5D Mark II + kit lens + nifty fifty) a while back in order to pursue a different art for a while. Am getting back to photography and have been researching the kit I want and am on the fence about the Sigmas - both the 35A & 50A. My camera will be a 5D Mark III and I've decided on buying only prime lenses. I foresee using the camera for general travel shots, landscapes & seascapes with an occasional astro when opportunity presents itself.

I'd like to know if these lenses exhibit the random front/back focusing problems only when using auto focus or its the same with manual too? I can't afford a Zeiss (non Otus as well) and if these lenses provide me with the IQ comparable to Otus at a fourth of the cost, I'm more than willing to ignore the auto focus and use manual full time. Since, I'll be using manual focus most often, should I invest in the sigma dock just to be able to do AFMA and try my luck with the AF as well?

Thank you for reading and hopefully helping me make the buying decision.

Manually focusing the Sigma lenses is a lot more difficult than focusing the Zeiss lenses! Unless you are willing to trust the AF system on the Sigma lenses, don´t buy them!

 

[wickidwombat]

viggo do you have access to a 5D3 you can test it on?

mine is still amazing easily the most consistant and accurate AF 50mm i've ever used
its blazingly good in servo too (but i only use the 5 center column points using servo)

I have only the 1dx, but even with only center point with or without expansion points in any Servo or One shot mode it's the same results. I'm seriously considering a 35 L or 50 L AGAIN... At least the 50 L is pretty consistent and can be calibrated without wearing out the shutter with testing.

cant try it on another body in the shop?

its wierd mine was so far off out of the box but after calibration its been fine, sure it misses now and then but definitely not anything as bad as the canon 50 f1.4. I wonder if your new body firmware messed it up? can you try roll back the 1Dx firmware to the old version when it was working ok to trouble shoot it?

 

[infared]

Hi ....(this will be little lengthy)...I have posted here before regarding the Sigma 50mm and the 35mm Art Lenses.
I own both and with some hesitation and quite a bit of attention to getting the lenses to perform consistently well.
I bought the 35mm Art first and I did not really test it at first...I was amazed by the sharpness. I am more an artistic photographer than I am a measurebator. ... I also bought the 50mm Art (when I could finally get my hands on one), and I was well aware of the focusing issues when I purchased that lens. I also bought a the Sigma Lens Dock when I bought the 50mm.
Here is how I test...I shoot specific images just for the testing and I will shoot a specific spot close and a specific spot much farther away. I repeat this a few times and look at my results. I use center focus points and edge points. I use a "Show Focus Points" Plug-in in LR so that I know exactly where I focused. (I will mention that both my "Show Focus Points" Plug-in and Canon's DPP show the focus point location on my computer screen slightly to the right of where I actually focused using the camera (5DIII). This is consist with every shot. There is a half to about 3/4 of a focus point shift from my camera to the two softwares I use on the computer???? (Does anyone else experience this?)
Anyway...My 1st 50mm Art was all over the place and I could not get it to focus consistently. After wasting hours of my life ...I returned the lens to B&H, explained the situation (which they were well aware of) and they gladly sent me another lens. The 2nd lens was MUCH more consistent....and needed just a slight bit of tweaking on the Sigma Lens Dock (I did not touch the focus adjustment in the camera). I have used the lens quite a bit and it is consistently accurate wide open...Any issues I have are to do with operator error...I think that this lens is just fantastic. (but I worry about it shifting because of all I have read.)
OK...the 35mm ...Needed a LOT of adjustment on the Dock +13 in all 4 zones. At least it was consistently of and I could have used the AFMA in the camera to straighten this out as well. I must say I am a little disturbed and how big this adjustment is. It leaves me uneasy. ...but the lens seems to perform consistently well now that I have taken the time to adjust it.
Now ...I do not sit around with charts and..blah..blah blah... I use the lenses to go out and shoot images. ...and when I am shooting wide open I check my focus point occassionally and the lenses seem very accurate....and i just love the IQ...Especially for what I paid.
Its a drag to have to do all of this work...but in my case I feel that it was worth it. Both these lenses are capable of creating really great and unique images!!!

 

[YuengLinger]

Hi ....(this will be little lengthy)...I have posted here before regarding the Sigma 50mm and the 35mm Art Lenses.
I own both and with some hesitation and quite a bit of attention to getting the lenses to perform consistently well.
I bought the 35mm Art first and I did not really test it at first...I was amazed by the sharpness. I am more an artistic photographer than I am a measurebator. ... I also bought the 50mm Art (when I could finally get my hands on one), and I was well aware of the focusing issues when I purchased that lens. I also bought a the Sigma Lens Dock when I bought the 50mm.
Here is how I test...I shoot specific images just for the testing and I will shoot a specific spot close and a specific spot much farther away. I repeat this a few times and look at my results. I use center focus points and edge points. I use a "Show Focus Points" Plug-in in LR so that I know exactly where I focused. (I will mention that both my "Show Focus Points" Plug-in and Canon's DPP show the focus point location on my computer screen slightly to the right of where I actually focused using the camera (5DIII). This is consist with every shot. There is a half to about 3/4 of a focus point shift from my camera to the two softwares I use on the computer???? (Does anyone else experience this?)
Anyway...My 1st 50mm Art was all over the place and I could not get it to focus consistently. After wasting hours of my life ...I returned the lens to B&H, explained the situation (which they were well aware of) and they gladly sent me another lens. The 2nd lens was MUCH more consistent....and needed just a slight bit of tweaking on the Sigma Lens Dock (I did not touch the focus adjustment in the camera). I have used the lens quite a bit and it is consistently accurate wide open...Any issues I have are to do with operator error...I think that this lens is just fantastic. (but I worry about it shifting because of all I have read.)
OK...the 35mm ...Needed a LOT of adjustment on the Dock +13 in all 4 zones. At least it was consistently of and I could have used the AFMA in the camera to straighten this out as well. I must say I am a little disturbed and how big this adjustment is. It leaves me uneasy. ...but the lens seems to perform consistently well now that I have taken the time to adjust it.
Now ...I do not sit around with charts and..blah..blah blah... I use the lenses to go out and shoot images. ...and when I am shooting wide open I check my focus point occassionally and the lenses seem very accurate....and i just love the IQ...Especially for what I paid.
Its a drag to have to do all of this work...but in my case I feel that it was worth it. Both these lenses are capable of creating really great and unique images!!!

So...those of us who have trouble with inconsistent AF and lousy AF off the center point just need to do more voodoo, be less demanding, and more understanding?

I'm not sure you've carefully read many of the posts.

I'm happy you were satisfied with your second copy of the 50.

I'm hoping to hear great reports if Sigma fixes erratic AF with a firmware update.

 

[infared]

Hi ....(this will be little lengthy)...I have posted here before regarding the Sigma 50mm and the 35mm Art Lenses.
I own both and with some hesitation and quite a bit of attention to getting the lenses to perform consistently well.
I bought the 35mm Art first and I did not really test it at first...I was amazed by the sharpness. I am more an artistic photographer than I am a measurebator. ... I also bought the 50mm Art (when I could finally get my hands on one), and I was well aware of the focusing issues when I purchased that lens. I also bought a the Sigma Lens Dock when I bought the 50mm.
Here is how I test...I shoot specific images just for the testing and I will shoot a specific spot close and a specific spot much farther away. I repeat this a few times and look at my results. I use center focus points and edge points. I use a "Show Focus Points" Plug-in in LR so that I know exactly where I focused. (I will mention that both my "Show Focus Points" Plug-in and Canon's DPP show the focus point location on my computer screen slightly to the right of where I actually focused using the camera (5DIII). This is consist with every shot. There is a half to about 3/4 of a focus point shift from my camera to the two softwares I use on the computer???? (Does anyone else experience this?)
Anyway...My 1st 50mm Art was all over the place and I could not get it to focus consistently. After wasting hours of my life ...I returned the lens to B&H, explained the situation (which they were well aware of) and they gladly sent me another lens. The 2nd lens was MUCH more consistent....and needed just a slight bit of tweaking on the Sigma Lens Dock (I did not touch the focus adjustment in the camera). I have used the lens quite a bit and it is consistently accurate wide open...Any issues I have are to do with operator error...I think that this lens is just fantastic. (but I worry about it shifting because of all I have read.)
OK...the 35mm ...Needed a LOT of adjustment on the Dock +13 in all 4 zones. At least it was consistently of and I could have used the AFMA in the camera to straighten this out as well. I must say I am a little disturbed and how big this adjustment is. It leaves me uneasy. ...but the lens seems to perform consistently well now that I have taken the time to adjust it.
Now ...I do not sit around with charts and..blah..blah blah... I use the lenses to go out and shoot images. ...and when I am shooting wide open I check my focus point occassionally and the lenses seem very accurate....and i just love the IQ...Especially for what I paid.
Its a drag to have to do all of this work...but in my case I feel that it was worth it. Both these lenses are capable of creating really great and unique images!!!

So...those of us who have trouble with consistent AF and lousy AF off the center point just need to do more voodoo, be less demanding, and more understanding?

I'm not sure you've carefully read many of the posts.

I'm happy you were satisfied with your second copy of the 50.

I'm hoping to hear great reports if Sigma fixes erratic AF with a firmware update.

I read all the posts. I had a different experience. I had a lousy lens. I sent it back. I was able to get a better copy.
Not doing any vodoo.
My photos look fantastic and are in focus where I want them to be. Just reporting my point of view, how I set up my camera and lenses, my experience and the results with MY equipment. I am a very technical guy. ...but I like to go out and shoot. The results are more than satisfactory...but that's me. Obviously other people have had different experiences. I have read many reports where photographers are having good experiences with both of these lenses, too.
I just love these lenses. They were just a bit of extra work to set up in my case.

 

[Viggo]

viggo do you have access to a 5D3 you can test it on?

mine is still amazing easily the most consistant and accurate AF 50mm i've ever used
its blazingly good in servo too (but i only use the 5 center column points using servo)

I have only the 1dx, but even with only center point with or without expansion points in any Servo or One shot mode it's the same results. I'm seriously considering a 35 L or 50 L AGAIN... At least the 50 L is pretty consistent and can be calibrated without wearing out the shutter with testing.

cant try it on another body in the shop?

its wierd mine was so far off out of the box but after calibration its been fine, sure it misses now and then but definitely not anything as bad as the canon 50 f1.4. I wonder if your new body firmware messed it up? can you try roll back the 1Dx firmware to the old version when it was working ok to trouble shoot it?

I can absolutely guarantee it's not the body. The 2.0.3 firmware, as I wrote earlier, was a long time before the Sigma, so with the 50 art both the firmware of the lens and body has been the same. And it has worked great, but started to drift now. I did a test where I resat the lens to 0 and took some shots at +15 and -15 and a few values in between and it makes NO difference to sharpness of my shots. They miss and hit the same shots and are equally sharp.

 

[Viggo]

Infrared: I fully understand how to calibrate. I have had FOUR art lenses and they all have the same issue, my second 50 art has been fantastic since April or May when I bought it. It was easy to calibrate and I just yesterday went through some picture from this summer when it was bolted to my camera and it is epic sharp and worked perfect.

It has now started with the same issue as the others. Dial in whatever afma values you want it doesn't matter. So it is something wrong with it.

 

[infared]

Infrared: I fully understand how to calibrate. I have had FOUR art lenses and they all have the same issue, my second 50 art has been fantastic since April or May when I bought it. It was easy to calibrate and I just yesterday went through some picture from this summer when it was bolted to my camera and it is epic sharp and worked perfect.

It has now started with the same issue as the others. Dial in whatever afma values you want it doesn't matter. So it is something wrong with it.

Well after the dance I had to dance just to get two functioning lenses I can say that I don't feel completely trusting of them. I am going to carefully check my focus points in LR each time that I use them, just to see if they "wander". Thanks for the warning.

 

[YuengLinger]

Infrared: I fully understand how to calibrate. I have had FOUR art lenses and they all have the same issue, my second 50 art has been fantastic since April or May when I bought it. It was easy to calibrate and I just yesterday went through some picture from this summer when it was bolted to my camera and it is epic sharp and worked perfect.

It has now started with the same issue as the others. Dial in whatever afma values you want it doesn't matter. So it is something wrong with it.

Well after the dance I had to dance just to get two functioning lenses I can say that I don't feel completely trusting of them. I am going to carefully check my focus points in LR each time that I use them, just to see if they "wander". Thanks for the warning.

It's just a little frustrating when somebody who does receive a good copy of a lens (or some other gear) starts accusing people who have genuine hardware/firmware problems of being "measurebators" or of not knowing "operator error" when it occurs.

I was lucky out of the box with my 35 Art, and I say to myself, "Thank goodness." I don't say all the other photographers complaining about it are just not quite as good as they should be.

Yes, we need to be honest with ourselves and others when evaluating gear and troubleshooting. We need to be logical. And I've been where you've been, infared, not understanding just how experienced and careful many of the contributors to this and other forums are.

It is some aspect of human nature that corporations and politicians love to take advantage of, a brand loyalty reflex of some sort, or a tendency to see ourselves as more discerning. So we defend a product or a politician no matter what evidence is offered by others.

Note, I'm NOT trying to bring politics into this, I'm just using something outside the realm of gear to make my point that all of us can get defensive when we should be logical.

Rant over!

 

[Viggo]

The BIG concern for me is if they fix it so it actually works again, how long before it fails again? I'm SO hoping for Canon to make the same exact lens but with the newest USM motor and algorithm's. I will take the 35 L II as an option :

 

[YuengLinger]

The BIG concern for me is if they fix it so it actually works again, how long before it fails again? I'm SO hoping for Canon to make the same exact lens but with the newest USM motor and algorithm's. I will take the 35 L II as an option :

+1

 

[Mika]

I had some initial difficulties with 50A, but after service and calibration with the USB dock it has worked fine. Granted, the weather has not been photographic for two months here, but still.

The 50A is far more reliable than EF 50/1.4 with the center focus point, and I trust my 5D outer focus points only on bright and sunny days anyways and when my object is not too close with about any objective I have.

What I recall is that the non-central focus points did not work well with 50A, but they don't either with EF50/1.4.

It does make me wonder whether varying lighting conditions can throw the 50A focus calibration off. I do recall seeing that the results were slightly different when adjusted under room lighting and under sun light. The other thing I can think of could be repeated thermal expansion and contraction.

 

[Viggo]

I had some initial difficulties with 50A, but after service and calibration with the USB dock it has worked fine. Granted, the weather has not been photographic for two months here, but still.

The 50A is far more reliable than EF 50/1.4 with the center focus point, and I trust my 5D outer focus points only on bright and sunny days anyways and when my object is not too close with about any objective I have.

What I recall is that the non-central focus points did not work well with 50A, but they don't either with EF50/1.4.

It does make me wonder whether varying lighting conditions can throw the 50A focus calibration off. I do recall seeing that the results were slightly different when adjusted under room lighting and under sun light. The other thing I can think of could be repeated thermal expansion and contraction.

For testing I only use the center point. And, again, mine worked for 6 months before it shows the same issues the THREE other Art lenses had.

Different temp light has something to do with it now, but didn't before, and it's actually just as good in the dark as it is with bright sunlight, it's slower in the dark, of course, but it was as accurate. And for at least 5 months it just didn't miss at 1.4 (the only aperture I use with it.) now the AF seems to just guess wildly and you cannot get two shots in a row or even 2 out of 10 that are anywhere near equally sharp, and once a week a shot is tack sharp.

 

[Mika]

Well, there's two other things that come to mind: first, what autofocus mode are you using? Servo or One Shot? Do you take burst shots or single shots? The second thing, have you used 200/2 with a similar profile?

The logic behind the second question is the following:
The 200/2 should show depth of field being inconsistent even more easily than 50A if this is a camera body issue (like the distance to the AF sensor changing for a reason or the other).

The third thing is that does the lens show the same behavior with a camera body other than 1DX?

When the lens misses, what is the variance of the misses?

 

[Viggo]

Well, there's two other things that come to mind: first, what autofocus mode are you using? Servo or One Shot? Do you take burst shots or single shots? The second thing, have you used 200/2 with a similar profile?

The logic behind the second question is the following:
The 200/2 should show depth of field being inconsistent even more easily than 50A if this is a camera body issue (like the distance to the AF sensor changing for a reason or the other).

The third thing is that does the lens show the same behavior with a camera body other than 1DX?

When the lens misses, what is the variance of the misses?

Simply put; I have tried every possible mode with all my lenses just to make sure that each of my lenses are in the right mode.

The 200 tracks so good I use slightly different settings to keep stable tracking because I know it doesn't miss that first focus. There is no AF option I haven't beaten to death to make sure it's not me.

And please read the part where I wrote that the 50 has worked perfect for 5 months and doesn't anymore. My 2470 and 200 simply work as they did when I first got them. No change in anything other than the Sigma.

The variation of the misses are complete random. Take a hundred shots and get 95 different grades of sharpness, and front and back all over.

 

[Mika]

The thing I'm thinking is did you follow the earlier thread about 1DX not working properly in AF Servo and 12 fps in darker areas? I thought that there could be a remote possibility that since you are from Norway that within 6 months, the average luminosity of the scenery has changed drastically. This would be specifically compounded by using 50/1.4 which would naturally be taken to more darker areas than the other lenses.

I actually didn't ask for the 24-70 results. It's a F/2.8 case, thus the usage profile is likely different from 50/1.4, while 200/2 could encounter a bit more similar stuff. Nevertheless, since 200/2 doesn't show similar problems in similar illumination, then the problem is most likely the lens.

What I meant by variance is that people are saying that autofocus is not consistent regardless of the focus distance. The meaning of this, however, is not very clear to me. Does it mean you get front and back focus both within certain limits regardless of the distance, or that the amount of the front and back focus is random regardless of the original focusing distance?

For example, focus it to 5 metres, and the realized plane of best focus has a variance of +/-1 metres from it. Do the same to 10 metres, and you get +/- 1 metres or something like that from it too randomly. OR, is it so that you focus it to 5 metres, and the resulting plane of best focus is from MIN to INF, and when you go to 10 metres, the same happens?

But it does start to sound like mechanical wear of some focusing parts, or like a decoder wheel reader skipping some pulses randomly. However, it could also be the firmware, but it's a bit hard to believe since it works in the beginning. Warm and cold cycles could off-set something inside the lens too.

I haven't opened the lens yet so I don't know much about the inner mechanical construction. Perhaps Roger Cicala from Lensrentals would know something about this?

 

[Viggo]

The thing I'm thinking is did you follow the earlier thread about 1DX not working properly in AF Servo and 12 fps in darker areas? I thought that there could be a remote possibility that since you are from Norway that within 6 months, the average luminosity of the scenery has changed drastically. This would be specifically compounded by using 50/1.4 which would naturally be taken to more darker areas than the other lenses.

I actually didn't ask for the 24-70 results. It's a F/2.8 case, thus the usage profile is likely different from 50/1.4, while 200/2 could encounter a bit more similar stuff. Nevertheless, since 200/2 doesn't show similar problems in similar illumination, then the problem is most likely the lens.

What I meant by variance is that people are saying that autofocus is not consistent regardless of the focus distance. The meaning of this, however, is not very clear to me. Does it mean you get front and back focus both within certain limits regardless of the distance, or that the amount of the front and back focus is random regardless of the original focusing distance?

For example, focus it to 5 metres, and the realized plane of best focus has a variance of +/-1 metres from it. Do the same to 10 metres, and you get +/- 1 metres or something like that from it too randomly. OR, is it so that you focus it to 5 metres, and the resulting plane of best focus is from MIN to INF, and when you go to 10 metres, the same happens?

But it does start to sound like mechanical wear of some focusing parts, or like a decoder wheel reader skipping some pulses randomly. However, it could also be the firmware, but it's a bit hard to believe since it works in the beginning. Warm and cold cycles could off-set something inside the lens too.

I haven't opened the lens yet so I don't know much about the inner mechanical construction. Perhaps Roger Cicala from Lensrentals would know something about this?

I shoot wide open with all lenses in any light

Regarding distances and misses, it doesn't matter, if it's at MFD or Infinity or anything in between at any afma it will miss front or back, at random. And if I choose an afma value for one or more of the 4 distance I can calibrate with the docking, it doesn't really have any effect. I think that is because when it misses it can easily miss with much more than the afma scale can correct.

 

[Mika]

Well, my question was exactly that: when it misses back and forth, how much in metres does it miss (variance)? I suppose it wont be fluctuating between MFD and INF if you are pointing it to an object at the proximity of minimum focus distance, but instead object distance +/- 0.5 metres or something like that.

By supplying this kind of information to Sigma, that could help pinpointing what's not working right if it is a mechanical error. In this case, it should help to estimate the magnitude of element movement error, whatever causes it.

You could also take a look at the focus scale when it's focusing. In my case, there was a weird jerk when the lens approached the right focus spot that seemed to throw it off. It went away after the service if I recall. I haven't used the lens for two months now as the weather has royally sucked here.

Also, try to find the Sigma contact of this guy: http://sigma120to300sportssaga.blogspot.fi/ Apparently, making it public also helps.