Help needed: 6D stays "black" after Firmware upgrade

[Valvebounce]

Hi xps.
Wow, so sorry to hear you are having this problem, first Canada, now Germany sending cameras back with one fault replaced by another!
I hope this is just a one off incident, and not that everyone now needs retraining because the newer cameras they are working on are so far removed from the older versions?
I hope they don't take so long to turn this repair around as it is their fault!

Cheers, Graham.

The actual status of my 6D: It returned yestreday after almost 2 weeks. Camera works now basically. Changed the card-slot-board (if I have translated this right). But now, the main front wheel does not work. Sent it back again.... More to come

 

[brad-man]

The actual status of my 6D: It returned yestreday after almost 2 weeks. Camera works now basically. Changed the card-slot-board (if I have translated this right). But now, the main front wheel does not work. Sent it back again.... More to come

That is most distressing. I hope Canon fixes your issue the second time around. Though I also suspect that the failure was unrelated to the FW upgrade, I think I will stay with ver 1.1.3. Neither of the last two updates offer anything I need. Best of luck.

 

[Marsu42]

The actual status of my 6D: It returned yestreday after almost 2 weeks. Camera works now basically. Changed the card-slot-board (if I have translated this right). But now, the main front wheel does not work. Sent it back again.... More to come

Argh, that's a good reason to have a backup camera. But on the bright side: They can hardly charge you again after sending back this camera as "repaired", so imho whatever should be the issue with the wheel should be on them.

 

[xps]

The actual status of my 6D: It returned yestreday after almost 2 weeks. Camera works now basically. Changed the card-slot-board (if I have translated this right). But now, the main front wheel does not work. Sent it back again.... More to come

Argh, that's a good reason to have a backup camera. But on the bright side: They can hardly charge you again after sending back this camera as "repaired", so imho whatever should be the issue with the wheel should be on them.

The first repair was on warranty (free). As I told the service center, that it returned with an issue, they told me to send it to them again for free (an parcel service fetched the parcel)

 

[xps]

I got an phonecall from the Service center on Friday: The "mainboard" is broken. Fixing this will cost me 700-800€. Canon is not willed to repair this on warranty. I should try to get my money back from the parcel service....

I told the Service man, that I am definitively not willed to pay this, as they sent the camera to me (so they are the risk-owner). So, he hang up.... More to come.....

Servicewüste Deutschland.....

 

[Khufu]

I got an phonecall from the Service center on Friday: The "mainboard" is broken. Fixing this will cost me 700-800€. Canon is not willed to repair this on warranty. I should try to get my money back from the parcel service....

I told the Service man, that I am definitively not willed to pay this, as they sent the camera to me (so they are the risk-owner). So, he hang up.... More to come.....

Servicewüste Deutschland.....

Holy sh#t... That's disgraceful. Maybe you were speaking to the very same guy who's responsible and he's trying to look out for himself?!

I'd get on to Trading Standards (or your local equivalent) and start telling Canon what they are going to do for you and NOT what you need to do for them.

people mentioned earlier that Canon will insist that it is up to you to prove faults and circumstance but here in the UK our Trading Standards place these responsibilities on the sellers and manufacturers (hence white stickers inside phones and on batteries which turn red when exposed to water) - but it doesn't stop the shops and manufacturers telling you lies about their legal responsibilities. "Store Policy" for example means nothing if you've been sold broken devices here... You're dealing with an a*sehole and sounds a lot to me like he's trying to act illegally - look up your rights and seek advice! Do NOT respond as instructed by Canon cretins and DO NOT say things that suggest you're willing to give up rights...

Finally, be an a*sehole yourself, threaten to take your case to the media and tell the individual you feel you may need to take legal action against him personally, if not reporting him to his superiors... Make lots of noise and insist on talking to the most senior people you can, ie. His bosses, their bosses... I'm genuinely appalled to hear this, good luck!

 

[martti]

Sounds pretty unbelievable. It cannot be the company (Canon) policy. You have stuck with the middle management who try to hush things down from their superiors. Write a letter to the boss of the service dept.
Put a copy here. Also, put a llink to this site on your letter.
It might help.

 

[Khufu]

...and get one of those apps that recall your phone calls or record on speakerphone if on a landline - DO spread word and bad PR, as Marttii suggests but also let him/them know you intend to and also intend to make life incredibly hard and regrettable for them if they don't play fair

Also, for insane legal reasons, you may need to let them know they're being recorded if you choose to do that and need it as "admissible evidence"

 

[xps]

thx.

If the problems continue, one of friends will fix this problem for me. He works for the German consumer protection department...
But this procedure is a shame...

 

[Marsu42]

I got an phonecall from the Service center on Friday: The "mainboard" is broken. Fixing this will cost me 700-800€. Canon is not willed to repair this on warranty. I should try to get my money back from the parcel service....

I can contribute a similar occasion: A friend of mine had problems with this 5d2's af being constantly off. He already had the camera serviced a short while ago for moisture damage. So when he sent in his *working* camera, they said it was broken beyond repair (probably also mb exchange necessary from their pov) - and he got it back *broken* as in "completely dead". He was so stunned he missed the time window to complain, it would have made sense since he got his 5d2 back as "repaired" the first time, paying €500(!!!), so it should be "nearly as new" and not as in "timebomb".

The reason why I'm writing this: Canon Deutschland (he's in Berlin, so the cps was most likely März) seems to be pretty quick to diagnose a broken mainboard, resulting in the repair being more expensive than the camera.

My advice: Try to crank a more detailed diagnosis out of them, just "broken" is not good enough. Then proceed to pressure them that this is actually a warranty case, unless it's the infamous catch-all moisture damage. Let us know how it goes...

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi xps.
I'm sorry to hear of your plight. I think the advice to go after them is correct, I think some of the advice to threaten with public humiliation is incorrect, it could just make your case impossible for legal recourse. Someone said be an ahole back to them, this is wrong, be firm, be forceful but remain polite if you want a leg to stand on.

I think if they use "the infamous catch-all moisture damage" then it would be down to CPS to prove the courier got it wet and recover costs from said courier, CPS have the contract with the courier as sender not the recipient. (At least I believe that's how it would be in the UK).
The way I see it they can't really blame anyone else if they go the moisture route as they were only just in the camera and it wasn't moist when dispatched and was moist when received!
Just a couple of my thoughts for the argument that seems certain to come.
Last bit get proper legal advice do not trust us armchair lawyers!

Cheers, Graham.

I got an phonecall from the Service center on Friday: The "mainboard" is broken. Fixing this will cost me 700-800€. Canon is not willed to repair this on warranty. I should try to get my money back from the parcel service....

I can contribute a similar occasion: A friend of mine had problems with this 5d2's af being constantly off. He already had the camera serviced a short while ago for moisture damage. So when he sent in his *working* camera, they said it was broken beyond repair (probably also mb exchange necessary from their pov) - and he got it back *broken* as in "completely dead". He was so stunned he missed the time window to complain, it would have made sense since he got his 5d2 back as "repaired" the first time, paying €500(!!!), so it should be "nearly as new" and not as in "timebomb".

The reason why I'm writing this: Canon Deutschland (he's in Berlin, so the cps was most likely März) seems to be pretty quick to diagnose a broken mainboard, resulting in the repair being more expensive than the camera.

My advice: Try to crank a more detailed diagnosis out of them, just "broken" is not good enough. Then proceed to pressure them that this is actually a warranty case, unless it's the infamous catch-all moisture damage. Let us know how it goes...

 

[lion rock]

I feel I have to chime in a bit.
Valvebounce's advice is really good. Be polite, but firm. And above all, document as much as you can about the whole sequence of events.
Good luck with your development.
-r

 

[Marsu42]

The way I see it they can't really blame anyone else if they go the moisture route as they were only just in the camera and it wasn't moist when dispatched and was moist when received!

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but what makes "moisture damage" (if that's what it's supposed to be) so "catch-all" that afaik it can manifest after a long time after the camera got actually wet - feel free to say otherwise, I'd be delighted...

Moisture is very slow to get out, and corrosion or the aftereffects of corrosion sometime ago on the mainboard can wreck your camera like a bold of lightning on a blue sky day. It's not like a button not working because the electrical connection has been shortened and then it's fine again, it's the pcb that's the issue and that Canon wants to replace in these cases.

On the upside, of course Canon knows how fuzzy this issue is and there might be some potential for leniency if you argue the case. Problem is that I cannot see a "middle ground" compromise in these cases - either they replace the part (i.e. give away €800 "for free") admitting it's not your fault, or they insist and you have to pay the full amount. A "ok people, let's be friends and share the bill" doesn't seem to be possible like in other disputes.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Marsu.
I was looking at the fact that they had been in far enough to change the card slot, then again a couple of days /weeks later far enough to change the front wheel, shouldn't they have seen signs this far in, poor quality control?
I understand the time delay between cause and effect with corrosion, but I would argue that they were negligent to repair a camera that must have had indicators of water damage to have failed between dispatch and first restart on receipt.
I hope they don't use this catch all, but if they do it will turn into a he said she said fight, and nobody comes out of that well! :-\

Cheers, Graham.

The way I see it they can't really blame anyone else if they go the moisture route as they were only just in the camera and it wasn't moist when dispatched and was moist when received!

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but what makes "moisture damage" (if that's what it's supposed to be) so "catch-all" that afaik it can manifest after a long time after the camera got actually wet - feel free to say otherwise, I'd be delighted...

Moisture is very slow to get out, and corrosion or the aftereffects of corrosion sometime ago on the mainboard can wreck your camera like a bold of lightning on a blue sky day. It's not like a button not working because the electrical connection has been shortened and then it's fine again, it's the pcb that's the issue and that Canon wants to replace in these cases.

On the upside, of course Canon knows how fuzzy this issue is and there might be some potential for leniency if you argue the case. Problem is that I cannot see a "middle ground" compromise in these cases - either they replace the part (i.e. give away €800 "for free") admitting it's not your fault, or they insist and you have to pay the full amount. A "ok people, let's be friends and share the bill" doesn't seem to be possible like in other disputes.

 

[Marsu42]

I was looking at the fact that they had been in far enough to change the card slot, then again a couple of days /weeks later far enough to change the front wheel, shouldn't they have seen signs this far in, poor quality control?

Good question, next question. No idea how far you have to disassemble the thing to get to the card slot or wheel. Problem is that their service is a black box, and you cannot really pin them down on neglect w/o inside information. My *opinion* certainly is that for that amount of money, they'd better really look - but then again gross oversight seems to be commonplace if I remember some forum posts.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Marsu.
Like you I have no idea how far on a 6D, I did take my 300D apart to fix the pop up flash a long time ago, been to sleep a few times since! I seem to recall I had to (either through necessity or ignorance : ) remove pretty much all the covers and the main board to get there, I don't remember if I got to the front wheel in the process!
I hope you understand I am no expert on the camera or the legalities of this situation, and as such I am not specifically arguing with you, I'm just trying to provide xps with counter arguments to your valid points.

Cheers, Graham.

I was looking at the fact that they had been in far enough to change the card slot, then again a couple of days /weeks later far enough to change the front wheel, shouldn't they have seen signs this far in, poor quality control?

Good question, next question. No idea how far you have to disassemble the thing to get to the card slot or wheel. Problem is that their service is a black box, and you cannot really pin them down on neglect w/o inside information. My *opinion* certainly is that for that amount of money, they'd better really look - but then again gross oversight seems to be commonplace if I remember some forum posts.

 

[Marsu42]

I hope you understand I am no expert on the camera or the legalities of this situation, and as such I am not specifically arguing with you, I'm just trying to provide xps with counter arguments to your valid points.

I didn't want to argue against you either, absolutely no intention or even idea of that whatsoever! Exactly as you, I'm just trying to throw some ideas around so the op can take a pick what might help him with the case. Please don't put too much weight on how some sentences might come across, I'm not a native English speaker.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Marsu.
I guess we are on the same page then, i didn't think you were arguing with me, but I like to make sure I don't come across wrong, I like this forum, I don't want to be responsible for someone else not enjoying being here.
Some times I'd like to suggest a couple of people take a step back and look at their quarrel from our point of view, but then you see them on another concurrent thread being perfectly civil, what can you say!

Cheers, Graham.

I hope you understand I am no expert on the camera or the legalities of this situation, and as such I am not specifically arguing with you, I'm just trying to provide xps with counter arguments to your valid points.

I didn't want to argue against you either, absolutely no intention or even idea of that whatsoever! Exactly as you, I'm just trying to throw some ideas around so the op can take a pick what might help him with the case. Please don't put too much weight on how some sentences might come across, I'm not a native English speaker.

 

[xps]

I got an phone call some minutes ago. After writing an letter to Canon, a service employee called me.
The would exchange the 6D, as it is not worth repairing it. I will get an refurbished one. But he can not say, how old and how "used" the 6D is.

What is your opinion? Should i take the refurbished, or rely on getting mine repaired?
The time of warranty for my 6D expires in June, the warranty of the refurbished one in June too.

 

[Marsu42]

I got an phone call some minutes ago. After writing an letter to Canon, a service employee called me.
The would exchange the 6D, as it is not worth repairing it. I will get an refurbished one. But he can not say, how old and how "used" the 6D is.

Amazing how they change their opinion from "pay €800" to "we'll help you" - let's not think of the poor suckers who accept Canon's ruling and don't dare to talk back :-\

What is your opinion? Should i take the refurbished, or rely on getting mine repaired?

"Refurbished" is a bit unusual in the EU, but I don't see anything wrong with it - it's as heavily "repaired" as your own camera would be. Why would you insist that you keep your very own shutter button, does the grip already have your personalized hand molds worn into it?

Of course you can try to insist on a repair just for the heck of it as they hardly can go back beyond the current offer, but think of the loss of time and hassle to endure. Personally, I'd love to have my 6d replaced with refurbished, any camera is bound to look better than mine on the outside