Hey Canon, I've got cash to burn, but...

[caruser]

...and I'm writing this to counter all the recent Canon bashing and flaming here, I can't find anything worth buying!

My 5D2 needs an upgrade, but the 5D3 doesn't have interchangeable focus-screens which I need for wide-aperture (manual) lenses (and the lack of improvement in the shadow noise is a bit of a let-down). The 1DX would be possible, too, but for that amount of cash I'd like 24 or 28 megapixels (with proportionally slower frame rate), everything else is great.

Since moving to full-frame the 70-200 is a bit short, but I don't want to substitute it with a less-sharp-and-inferior-IS 100-400, give me a new version already, or an updated 300 f/4, I'll take whatever comes first! And what about wide-angle, where is the 14-24 competitor, or even a 17-40 or 16-35 that's half as sharp? Where is the quality 20 IS USM to go with the 24 and 28?

And don't get me started on all the missing or crippled firmware features, some decent updates there might have pushed me to a 5D3 or 1DX, but there's no real auto-iso in m with exposure compensation, no proper way to set the min and max shutter speed or aperture in the semi-auto modes, no histogram when zoomed in like the smallest nikons do, ... ... ...

Rant finished, obviously I don't make my living from photography, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't spend some more on it, because I do shoot a lot and some things are often difficult with my current gear!

 

[sandymandy]

So just get 6D. Better shadow noise performance and you can change the focussing screen. What about putting 1.4xtender on your 70-200? or 135L with extender.

 

[caruser]

So just get 6D. Better shadow noise performance and you can change the focussing screen. What about putting 1.4xtender on your 70-200? or 135L with extender.

Hm, you are right, the 6D has interchangeable focus screens, that's unexpected, I had read somewhere that it doesn't... However I would appreciate the 5D3/1DX AF system, too.

But the extenders are a good idea, might help bridge the time to a 100-400 update, thanks.

 

[tnargs]

Hm, you are right, the 6D has interchangeable focus screens, that's unexpected, I had read somewhere that it doesn't... However I would appreciate the 5D3/1DX AF system, too.

Uninformed rant, then?

Also note the 5D3 screen is a major upgrade, so 99% of buyers will reap the benefits while the 1% who want to use short manual lenses with large glass (invariably not made by Canon, hello Zeiss) can get a 6D 'cos they won't need the rapid-fire super AF systems of the 5D3. Or keep it simple and upgrade to EOS! (Zeiss is sooo 60's tech). ;D

 

[caruser]

Hm, you are right, the 6D has interchangeable focus screens, that's unexpected, I had read somewhere that it doesn't... However I would appreciate the 5D3/1DX AF system, too.

Uninformed rant, then?

Also note the 5D3 screen is a major upgrade, so 99% of buyers will reap the benefits while the 1% who want to use short manual lenses with large glass (invariably not made by Canon, hello Zeiss) can get a 6D 'cos they won't need the rapid-fire super AF systems of the 5D3. Or keep it simple and upgrade to EOS! (Zeiss is sooo 60's tech). ;D

I have various use cases for the camera, some of them need a better AF than what I've got now on the 5D2, both in terms of tracking speed and spread of "good" AF points, and some which require a "good" MF focus screen for lenses like the 35L shot with a candle or two providing the light.

 

[Hobby Shooter]

You obviously haven't tried the 5D3, learn to shoot and the shadow 'noise' won't be a problem.

 

[caruser]

You obviously haven't tried the 5D3, learn to shoot and the shadow 'noise' won't be a problem.

My comment wasn't about shadow noise, and I have briefly tried a 5D3. Even if I ignore the lack of low-iso improvement over the 5D2 and the fact that it has a bloody strong AA filter to cater to the video people while I would prefer none at all, what disturbs me about the 5D3 is that I can't change the focus screen, and that in many situations that I shoot in the additional "good" focus points are pretty useless since I can't link spot-metering to the AF point like the 1DX and previous 1D models can. But please go on, if you manage to convince me that the 5D3 is good enough I won't have to save for a 1DX!

 

[VirtualRain]

I'm with the OP... Canon does seem to be making too many compromises lately and not delivering products people really want.

I can't recall a single product announcement in the last year that wasn't met with some level of disappointment in capability and dropped jaws on price.

Consider:
- A 5D3 with no improvement in sensor tech but launches at almost double the price of the 5D2
- A 6D which is basically a 5D2 in new clothes at a 50% premium over a 5D2
- A 24-70 f4 IS that offers less focal range at double the price of the old 24-105
- A 24-70 f2.8 still without IS at double the price of the old 24-70 (Tamron is now out-innovating them on IS?)
- Yet to rub it all in, we get new wide primes with IS that no body wants

Has there ever been a time in history when Canon has disappointed this much?

 

[caruser]

I'm with the OP... Canon does seem to be making too many compromises lately and not delivering products people really want.

I can't recall a single product announcement in the last year that wasn't met with some level of disappointment in capability and dropped jaws on price.

To be fair, the 1DX does seem to be a very good camera, the main criticism being that it doesn't quite improve on the 1Ds3 for areas like studio and landscape. I think I'd be perfectly happy with a 32MP version of the 1DX (and proportionally slower frame rate).

 

[John MARK]

Hm, you are right, the 6D has interchangeable focus screens, that's unexpected, I had read somewhere that it doesn't... However I would appreciate the 5D3/1DX AF system, too.

Uninformed rant, then?

Also note the 5D3 screen is a major upgrade, so 99% of buyers will reap the benefits while the 1% who want to use short manual lenses with large glass (invariably not made by Canon, hello Zeiss) can get a 6D 'cos they won't need the rapid-fire super AF systems of the 5D3. Or keep it simple and upgrade to EOS! (Zeiss is sooo 60's tech). ;D

I have various use cases for the camera, some of them need a better AF than what I've got now on the 5D2, both in terms of tracking speed and spread of "good" AF points, and some which require a "good" MF focus screen for lenses like the 35L shot with a candle or two providing the light.

Hi caruser !

Just like you, not a pro, some money to burn but no pressure to do so tomorrow morning

And facing the ever lasting quest for the "universal tool" : we all know that a swiss knife is a refined
sample of compromise.

So for me, the equation might be solved by a 6D (landscape, low light, portrait etc.) + 7D II (fast action, reach etc.) combo in the mid term.

OK, maybe a 1DX might look like an all-in-one equivalent, "just a bit" more expensive than that combo (pure speculation right now, concerning 7D II schedule & pricing) but I've long been taught not to put all my eggs in the same bag !

Meanwhile, still happy with my 60D AND its flip-screen, for which a 6D + wi-fi tethered tablet looks like an attractive larger screen FF upgrade : many times, I use MF in zoomed Live View mode, with the camera in unusual positions, low light and low ISO's… to each one it's own needs !

Anyway, still letting the early 6D adopters clear the bug field for me…

Cheers

 

[K3nt]

While I can see some of the points the original poster made I don't share the immense disappointment. Someone said it's a swiss army knife, not far off. Everything is a compromise.
We all have different needs and Canon has to navigate that, not an easy task, and sometimes they do get it wrong. It's a little trying to squeeze a giant cruise liner into a canal with 2 inches to spare either side.
To emphasize my point, I'd love to have ALL video-stuff removed from my 7D, I never use it and I believe for video there are better tools than a DSLR, some other folks on the other hand never shoot anything but video and would probably gladly trade in the still functions for better video performance.
My advice would be, if you're not happy with what's currently out there, wait a while, something better may come along or may not. Your 5D2 is a brilliant piece of kit no matter what.
If that money's really burning in your pocket trade in the mk2 for a mk3 just for the fun of learning something new, or get that 6D as a companion to your mk2.
As for myself, the 1D-X is a dream come true for the types of events I shoot, moving targets in badly lit circumstances. My 7D copes, but the noise is quite high, it is something I acknowledge and I've become pretty adept at working around the limitations too. (I think) The 1D-X has to stay in the shops for a while longer as it is currently out of my league price-wise. But that's ok.
I now need to go research some stuff on how to get even more out of my 7D so it will serve me well for some time to come.

 

[FunPhotons]

My 5D2 needs an upgrade, but the 5D3 doesn't have interchangeable focus-screens which I need for wide-aperture (manual) lenses (and the lack of improvement in the shadow noise is a bit of a let-down). The 1DX would be possible, too, but for that amount of cash I'd like 24 or 28 megapixels (with proportionally slower frame rate), everything else is great.

My feelings PRECISELY. I'm not a ranter, but I found no reason to upgrade with the latest bodies.

Since moving to full-frame the 70-200 is a bit short, but I don't want to substitute it with a less-sharp-and-inferior-IS 100-400, give me a new version already

Also agree

And what about wide-angle, where is the 14-24 competitor, or even a 17-40 or 16-35 that's half as sharp?

Don't really agree, I'm fine with my 16-35 and am not really interested in the 14-24

Where is the quality 20 IS USM to go with the 24 and 28?

Another hit! I really want a good 20mm

And don't get me started on all the missing or crippled firmware features, some decent updates there might have pushed me to a 5D3 or 1DX, but there's no real auto-iso in m with exposure compensation, no proper way to set the min and max shutter speed or aperture in the semi-auto modes, no histogram when zoomed in like the smallest nikons do, ... ... ...

I'm disappointed they didn't push support for the new RT flashes to the 5DMII. Obvious ploy to get us to upgrade.

 

[caruser]

While I can see some of the points the original poster made I don't share the immense disappointment. Someone said it's a swiss army knife, not far off. Everything is a compromise.

The train of thoughts was something like "the 5D2 is very nice, but with what I'm shooting recently I need a more capable AF, so the 5D3 should be a good match, except that it doesn't improve on the IQ in ways that I would like to see in my next purchase (given that the competition does it), I can't add the MF-optimised focus screen, and it still doesn't give me AF-point linked spot-metering, so what can I buy?" That's when I started thinking about the 1DX, except that I would like more mega-pixels, too; I often crop landscapes to a 3x1 format, that leaves 9 MP which isn't terribly much for 1 square meter prints...

 

[DHaass]

Have you considered stacking photos with what you have? Shoot in vertical across the landscape, overlapping shots and make 2 square meter prints or whatever size you want once cropped in. I'm just sayin...there is a way to get what you want with what you have.

 

[FatDaddyJones]

I am a moderator on another forum. My job there is to keep the discussions on topic and check for inappropriate comments. Some would consider this censorship and suppression of free speech. I personally think that forums like this ought to have posted rules of conduct on the boards with moderators that enforce them. This site DOES have rules:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=1442.0

Unfortunately, they don't seem to be enforced very much in quite a few topic threads here lately.

 

[Loswr]

So for me, the equation might be solved by a 6D (landscape, low light, portrait etc.) + 7D II (fast action, reach etc.) combo in the mid term.

OK, maybe a 1DX might look like an all-in-one equivalent, "just a bit" more expensive than that combo (pure speculation right now, concerning 7D II schedule & pricing) but I've long been taught not to put all my eggs in the same bag !

I did the 7D + 5DII thing for a couple of years, which is a lot like the 6D + 7DII scenario - the 5DII for landscapes and portraits, the 7D for birds/wildlife. The thing is, the 1D X is a really nice 'bag'. It's a lot more robust than the lesser bodies, that great AF and fast frame rate comes in handy for portraits (basically, each shot is a 'double-tap' so there's almost never a lost shot due to a blink, etc.). As for reach, it's artificial unless you're printing large - a 1D X image cropped to the FoV of the 7D gives a 7 MP image that still has (slightly) better IQ, and if you don't need to crop, the IQ is much better. If you're always shooting at ISO 400-800 or less, the 7D does very well, but at higher ISOs, the 1D X is much better - enough so that I see no point in keeping the 7D, and unless a 7DII brings ISO improvements that push it into the FF IQ range, it's not particularly tempting to me...

 

[Loswr]

I am a moderator on another forum. My job there is to keep the discussions on topic and check for inappropriate comments. Some would consider this censorship and suppression of free speech. I personally think that forums like this ought to have posted rules of conduct on the boards with moderators that enforce them. This site DOES have rules:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=1442.0

Unfortunately, they don't seem to be enforced very much in quite a few topic threads here lately.

At a guess, I'd say you were typing this as a mod was cleaning up this very thread. Or so I assume, since I don't see anything particularly objectionable here now...

 

[FatDaddyJones]

At a guess, I'd say you were typing this as a mod was cleaning up this very thread. Or so I assume, since I don't see anything particularly objectionable here now...

Thank you

 

[caruser]

I did the 7D + 5DII thing for a couple of years, which is a lot like the 6D + 7DII scenario - the 5DII for landscapes and portraits, the 7D for birds/wildlife. The thing is, the 1D X is a really nice 'bag'. It's a lot more robust than the lesser bodies, that great AF and fast frame rate comes in handy for portraits (basically, each shot is a 'double-tap' so there's almost never a lost shot due to a blink, etc.). As for reach, it's artificial unless you're printing large - a 1D X image cropped to the FoV of the 7D gives a 7 MP image that still has (slightly) better IQ, and if you don't need to crop, the IQ is much better.

Interesting, did you miss the 3 MP difference when going from the 5D2 to the 1DX? (And, if not, because the images are cleaner to make up the difference or because you never print in the square meter range?)

 

[Loswr]

Interesting, did you miss the 3 MP difference when going from the 5D2 to the 1DX? (And, if not, because the images are cleaner to make up the difference or because you never print in the square meter range?)

I don't miss the 3 MP, and that's beacuse of the cleaner images. I do print at up to 24x36", occasionally larger. I get 1-2 stops better ISO performance with the 1D X compared to the 5DII, a combination of lower noise and better quality of remaining noise. ISO 3200 was my usual cap for the 5DII, with ISO 6400 for 'emergencies'. On the 1D X, I routinely shoot at up to ISO 8000, and will go over ISO 12800 if I need to, with decent results.