I bought/would buy a 6D and not a D600 because...
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I bought the Canon 6D because I had a selection of great EF lenses, a f1.4 50, a f2 135, a 70-300 IS & recently a EF Lensbaby composer - I'm also familiar with the look of the images, the way the controls work and really struggle to get my head around Nikon's lens naming conventions ! I'd generally stick with Canon or Nikon now as I've found a great second hand market for both at my local store.
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Mostly I got the 6D since I already had a lot of Canon lenses, and I like them. However there are two main reasons I wouldn't get a D600 regardless:
1. No exposure simulation or live histogram in LiveView, and strange (annoying) aperture behavior in LiveView (although sounds like they may fix that last point someday in an update). Also the live magnification in LiveView isn't very good; Canon's is much better. Since I shoot a lot of long exposure landscapes and macro, both those features are really helpful to me.
2. There is no way to turn off auto focus from being attached to the shutter button without going into manual focus mode, at which point the AF-ON button doesn't function. I've taken to shoot with focus attached to the AF-ON button, and not on the shutter. This is a minor thing for most people, but I really like shooting that way for a verity of reasons.
Actually the LiveView issues are why I went with Canon in the first place. I was going to buy a D7000 until I saw how bad the LiveView was, and got a 60D instead.
Also I didn't like the placement of the ISO button on the D600, but that's kind of a minor thing. And now that I have the WiFi and GPS, I'm finding them very useful - although I'm not sure I'd switch my choice because of them.
1. No exposure simulation or live histogram in LiveView, and strange (annoying) aperture behavior in LiveView (although sounds like they may fix that last point someday in an update). Also the live magnification in LiveView isn't very good; Canon's is much better. Since I shoot a lot of long exposure landscapes and macro, both those features are really helpful to me.
2. There is no way to turn off auto focus from being attached to the shutter button without going into manual focus mode, at which point the AF-ON button doesn't function. I've taken to shoot with focus attached to the AF-ON button, and not on the shutter. This is a minor thing for most people, but I really like shooting that way for a verity of reasons.
Actually the LiveView issues are why I went with Canon in the first place. I was going to buy a D7000 until I saw how bad the LiveView was, and got a 60D instead.
Also I didn't like the placement of the ISO button on the D600, but that's kind of a minor thing. And now that I have the WiFi and GPS, I'm finding them very useful - although I'm not sure I'd switch my choice because of them.
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So one of friends wanted a camera and she told me that she was going to get a Canon 7D with a 24-70 2.8. I was kinda of surprised she was getting that one. She is a Graphic Designer and not a sport shooter. Talking to her, I found out she didn't understand full frame vs crop. So I told her to get either the 6D or mark 2 (limited budget). After talking for an hour or two about cameras, she asked about Nikon. I said look at the D600 with the deal of the free lens right now. She really liked that camera. She asked me if there was any reason to get the 6D over the D600 and I couldn't say there was. She ended ordering it.
For me I want to upgrade to full frame from t2i and I would do with the 6D over the D600 hands down bc of the money i would lose from selling my lens and making the switch. I have also been shooting Canon my whole life which isn't too long bc I am still under 30 but it is the system I know. It is also what my dad shoots too, so it is nice to have the same system as him. I also think in the long run Canon is the better brand and I know I wont be one of those people who switch system bc one camera is better than other through the years
For me I want to upgrade to full frame from t2i and I would do with the 6D over the D600 hands down bc of the money i would lose from selling my lens and making the switch. I have also been shooting Canon my whole life which isn't too long bc I am still under 30 but it is the system I know. It is also what my dad shoots too, so it is nice to have the same system as him. I also think in the long run Canon is the better brand and I know I wont be one of those people who switch system bc one camera is better than other through the years
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Well I shot Nikon for 25 years, and changed to FF Canon in 2005.
The change to Canon wasn't just driven by FF. Some of the things I found with the modern Nikons would be my reasons for choosing the 6D over the D600
These only relate to the prosumer grade of cameras:
Software that's a joke compared with Canon
Hideous plastic pop up flash
Rubber grip that peels away from the body
Rubber grip that binds the front command wheel
Soft lens mount that wears quickly and feels real slack with heavy lenses
Translucent LCD on focus screen makes manual focus horrid
Menus that I don't understand
And, the manual focus on Canon L lenses is superior to Nikon IME
In fact I have found that the Canon has a higher level of intrinsic quality to the equivalent Nikon.
Nikons are cheaper because they Are cheaper.
Don't take any notice of people who have called the 6D "cheap and plasticy". They will have never handled one.
The change to Canon wasn't just driven by FF. Some of the things I found with the modern Nikons would be my reasons for choosing the 6D over the D600
These only relate to the prosumer grade of cameras:
Software that's a joke compared with Canon
Hideous plastic pop up flash
Rubber grip that peels away from the body
Rubber grip that binds the front command wheel
Soft lens mount that wears quickly and feels real slack with heavy lenses
Translucent LCD on focus screen makes manual focus horrid
Menus that I don't understand
And, the manual focus on Canon L lenses is superior to Nikon IME
In fact I have found that the Canon has a higher level of intrinsic quality to the equivalent Nikon.
Nikons are cheaper because they Are cheaper.
Don't take any notice of people who have called the 6D "cheap and plasticy". They will have never handled one.
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I have a T1i and I wanted a second body to take on an African safari in 2013. I love my T1i but if I was going to purchase a new body, I wanted it to be a significant upgrade over the T1i. And, I wanted to stay within the Canon system. I chose the 6D over the 7D because I wanted a FF camera. I chose the 6D (I got the kit) over the 5DIII because the extra features/enhancements of the 5DIII, while great, are ones that I can easily live without and I figured I could use the money I saved from not buying the 5DIII toward another nice lens. Further, and for me this may be an even bigger factor than cost, I like the smaller size and weight of the 6D (I'm a woman with very small hands so the 6D's ergonomics are better for me). I do, however, want to thank Nikon for dropping the price of its D600 as this apparently prompted Canon to drop the kit price of the 6D. It was after this price drop that I decided to buy 6D. So between that and the deal I got on the 70-300L the other day thanks to the CR notice, I'm a very happy girl with my new camera and L lenses! 
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I bought the 6D because the 85mm f1.4 is a fantastic lens, less than 1/2 the price of the canon f1.2,
and the 35mm f1.4 is also excellent. Only have those two lenses and am satisfied. My Canon gear
sits in a bag in the closet for the time being - until I need the 70-200.
and the 35mm f1.4 is also excellent. Only have those two lenses and am satisfied. My Canon gear
sits in a bag in the closet for the time being - until I need the 70-200.
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Sporgon said:
Well said Sporgon. I didn't shoot Nikon for 25 years, but I shot a Nikon system long enough in the film era to be a dedicated fan at one point in time. About 6 years to be exact, something I can't deny or regret. It certainly helped me jumpstart my dedication to events coverage. However, I was attracted to Canon when I began to see all the white lenses in highly inspiring and motivational events like the Olympics, presidential campaigns, and at local sports games in my hometown of San Francisco. It certainly made me very curious. Deep down inside, I wanted the speed, accuracy, and color renditions of the rapidly improving EF lens lineup. However, what really broke me in half with Nikon was when Canon released the ever so popular 5D classic. Everyone who's shot DSLRs for at least close to a decade know how much of an impact this particular model made when it was announced, and even bigger when all of the jaw dropping photos turned up. I can't really say that I switched, but when I bought my 5D with a 50mm f/1.4 my Nikon F4 never saw the light of day again after that. I had to sell it and settle for a 40D at one point but I bought the classic again when the Mark II got released. I kept loyal to the 5D series, and backed it up with a 1D mark III for shooting weddings eventually. When the 5D mark III came out I just had to do a double take and convince my boss to buy another one because the AF is just so buttery smooth with Canon lenses when shooting events. Then the 6D came out... I have to admit, I was disappointed. Canon gives us this war beast called the 5D mark III and puts a little innocent kitty cat next to it called the 6D. So I thought... Okay.... maybe my wife will like it. Maybe we can take it on vacations because it's smaller and lighter. Okay...it's so hard to defend against the D600 specs but we already have a lot of Canon gear...
After reading around in the Nikon forums, then going to the store to hold a D600 and try it out, I was disappointed in how it felt in my hands. Like Sporgon, the menus drove me nuts. I tested it in the store with a Nikkor 50mm 1.8 (which to be fair, feels better than Canon's 50mm 1.8 II BTW) Looking at the horrible LCD screen made me laugh, because it made realize that I was a film photographer that has become a chimper. But if I'm going to chimp, the LCD screen better be good. The slight green tint didn't bother me as much as I thought it would when reading about it. However, the image was cropped inside of the screen to make room for the settings... Wow. Even if that could be changed, it's really not a good idea to put that on a camera as default. Anyways, at that point, it really didn't matter to me what the Nikon images would look like on a computer screen anymore. I was holding a camera that an event shooter would have a bit more trouble using compared to a Canon system and even compared to the way my old F4 was. I'm used to my brother's D7000 layout, which I hate, and wish they changed it in future bodies. But nope, they brought almost all of it back. Also after that experience I have enough reason to believe that the live view/video mode is horrible on Nikon cameras in general. I'm also a cinematographer, and I am still facepalmed for Nikon for simple tasks like changing settings while in live view. I suppose they think everyone owns an entire set of AF-D lenses. This is an important feature with the most basic of functions that should have worked straight out of the box, seamlessly. The frustrating button placements and situations that caused me to menu dive constantly were enough to turn me off on just the camera alone. They should have kept it simple! These are vital operation constraints. Good photographers should be spending less time on the science of fiddling with controls, and more time on the art.
So I pre-ordered a 6D for my wife. I wasn't excited, of course. Being used to the 5D mark III, it was really hard to see that anything could come close. Now we have two Canon 6D bodies.... One for me, because my wife wouldn't let go of hers for me to really shoot all day with it. But the reason I have one now... The first impression. Holding it is NOT like holding a 60D. (which I've also owned more than one body of, previously) I think that's the common misconception by the general public who look at the specs and photos of the camera and say oh, it's a full frame 60D. It is not. It's definitely heavier, feels like I have a better grip on it, and the control layout seems to make slightly better sense. You will definitely notice that it is better built than a 60D from when you first pick it up. I have exactly one issue with it that the 60D might have a tiny advantage in. And that's the fact I can't program the SET button to go directly to white balance settings. I have a dedicated white balance button in the 5D mark III, why not the 6D? However, I said tiny because you can program the SET button for quick menu, and throw white balance into the quick menu. One whole button press behind, not that big of a deal unless you're shooting in a moving vehicle that passes different light temperature conditions in which you are required to shoot in at 5mph or faster. Seriously.
The AF is not comparable to the 5D mark III at all, and everyone is right in the regards of believing the very obvious truth that it is in a different league in that regard. But that's why people are going to buy the 6D, because not everyone needs the 5D mark III. Nor do they all shoot in death defying extreme weather. Back to AF, the 6D is no slouch. I can easily say it's AF is better than both the 5D mark II and 5D classic. In fact, I feel like it focuses faster than the D600 when I have a good lens attached to it like the 135mm F2/L or my colleague's 70-200mm f/2.8L II. Which is not a fair comparison of course, since I only used the 50mm 1.8 on the D600. I won't get in too deep with lens performance, but it does sort of make me feel like Nikon marketing is just throwing more points on the D600 to compensate for some of their lower performing Nikon lenses compared to Canon lens equivalents. Which of course, isn't true and I'm just a Nikon basher right? ~_^ Okay, so Nikon seems to have the edge on outer points for moving subjects. But in my 3-4 weeks of experience with the 6D, I can at least say that the outer points are very much usable in good light and a target with enough contrast, but it disappointed me for moving subjects. Note, this is the same disappointment I had for the outer points on the 5D mark II and 5D classic. Also note, I didn't know I had this disappointment until I became dependent on 1D mark III and 5D mark III outer point AF. So, if you're used to the old 5D bodies, or even the old 9 point system on the XXD bodies, you won't really feel a difference. The center point, however, is a miracle worker. With just a macbook pro lighting the master bedroom and not even facing the subject, I can lock focus and photograph my sleeping wife despite the fact I was forced to use ISO51200 to expose correctly at a hand holdable shutter speed. I'll have to test the same situation with a 5D mark III, but I know for a fact that even my 1D mark III couldn't do that or would hunt for a bit before it thought it could. The fact I'm able to lock focus on any shot that requires ISO51200 when my 1D mark III couldn't do it at it's highest ISO of ISO6400 changes the game a bit in that regard. I'm shooting a local wedding soon, and I'm confident enough to try the 6D as a backup body to the 5D mark III and see how it does in a very poorly lit church.
For high ISO performance, and sometimes, the way the images just looked at all ISOs... I was disappointed too, initially. I looked at some of my old 5D mark II RAW files, and they were obviously sharper when viewing the image full on. However, the softer images didn't bother me anymore after I saw how well it handled sharpening in Lightroom and unsharp mask in Photoshop. I loaded my 5D classic RAW files, and a lot of the ISO100 files looked cleaner somehow which I'm sure is because of the weak AA filter and bigger pixels. A friend of mine sent me a couple of D600 RAW files from one of his events, and they looked just as flat as my 6D RAW files. A lot of this is accurate towards what the general consensus is saying around the net with their tests. However, I don't care about the 100% crop tests because I don't deliver 100% crops to my clients. After editing all the files, I found that the 6D RAW files looked better than both 5Ds and still had more realism to human skin tone compared to the D600 RAWs. I can still praise the D600 in this regard, because despite the slight preference in skin tone, the D600 RAW files are quite good. However, I'm still in agreement with Sporgon on the fact I am not willing to trade Canon's weaknesses for Nikon's weaknesses. It's like trying to drive a ferrari with helicopter controls, it doesn't matter how fast your car is if you can't get it from point A to point B. Perhaps overboard with the metaphor, but you know what I mean. Canon warranty is better as well, but I won't get in too deep with that either. (Seems like I got pretty deep with everything else though, lol)
The bottom line is, you have to make sure you're buying the cameras from a photographer's perspective if you want it to do everything you need it to do. Like many say, the camera's eco system including lens selection and accessories is much more important, so narrowing this all down to just cameras will prevent anyone from making a truly open minded decision. Like I said earlier, I'd rather spend more time on the art of photography. I'm not a camera engineer, that's the camera maker's job. Specs, operation, and sometimes rumors, though they are important factors, are just a supplement to what it all comes down to and that's a good photograph. We're not supposed to be on the computer all day zooming in and shaking fists about dynamic range, we're supposed to be out taking photos. That's why I can easily recommend the 6D over the D600, because I know for a fact it does the job and doesn't give me long term issues that could slow down or harm my workflow in the field. But in conclusion.... All I can say is..... Just buy a 5D Mark III if you can afford it
- Ryan
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dickgrafixstop said:
You're talking about Sigma lenses right? They also make the same lenses in Nikon mount versions... Do they work better for Canon versus the ones that work on Nikon bodies?
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Chosenbydestiny said:Sporgon said:
Well said Sporgon. I didn't shoot Nikon for 25 years, but I shot a Nikon system long enough in the film era to be a dedicated fan at one point in time. About 6 years to be exact, something I can't deny or regret. It certainly helped me jumpstart my dedication to events coverage. However, I was attracted to Canon when I began to see all the white lenses in highly inspiring and motivational events like the Olympics, presidential campaigns, and at local sports games in my hometown of San Francisco. It certainly made me very curious. Deep down inside, I wanted the speed, accuracy, and color renditions of the rapidly improving EF lens lineup. However, what really broke me in half with Nikon was when Canon released the ever so popular 5D classic. Everyone who's shot DSLRs for at least close to a decade know how much of an impact this particular model made when it was announced, and even bigger when all of the jaw dropping photos turned up. I can't really say that I switched, but when I bought my 5D with a 50mm f/1.4 my Nikon F4 never saw the light of day again after that. I had to sell it and settle for a 40D at one point but I bought the classic again when the Mark II got released. I kept loyal to the 5D series, and backed it up with a 1D mark III for shooting weddings eventually. When the 5D mark III came out I just had to do a double take and convince my boss to buy another one because the AF is just so buttery smooth with Canon lenses when shooting events. Then the 6D came out... I have to admit, I was disappointed. Canon gives us this war beast called the 5D mark III and puts a little innocent kitty cat next to it called the 6D. So I thought... Okay.... maybe my wife will like it. Maybe we can take it on vacations because it's smaller and lighter. Okay...it's so hard to defend against the D600 specs but we already have a lot of Canon gear...
After reading around in the Nikon forums, then going to the store to hold a D600 and try it out, I was disappointed in how it felt in my hands. Like Sporgon, the menus drove me nuts. I tested it in the store with a Nikkor 50mm 1.8 (which to be fair, feels better than Canon's 50mm 1.8 II BTW) Looking at the horrible LCD screen made me laugh, because it made realize that I was a film photographer that has become a chimper. But if I'm going to chimp, the LCD screen better be good. The slight green tint didn't bother me as much as I thought it would when reading about it. However, the image was cropped inside of the screen to make room for the settings... Wow. Even if that could be changed, it's really not a good idea to put that on a camera as default. Anyways, at that point, it really didn't matter to me what the Nikon images would look like on a computer screen anymore. I was holding a camera that an event shooter would have a bit more trouble using compared to a Canon system and even compared to the way my old F4 was. I'm used to my brother's D7000 layout, which I hate, and wish they changed it in future bodies. But nope, they brought almost all of it back. Also after that experience I have enough reason to believe that the live view/video mode is horrible on Nikon cameras in general. I'm also a cinematographer, and I am still facepalmed for Nikon for simple tasks like changing settings while in live view. I suppose they think everyone owns an entire set of AF-D lenses. This is an important feature with the most basic of functions that should have worked straight out of the box, seamlessly. The frustrating button placements and situations that caused me to menu dive constantly were enough to turn me off on just the camera alone. They should have kept it simple! These are vital operation constraints. Good photographers should be spending less time on the science of fiddling with controls, and more time on the art.
So I pre-ordered a 6D for my wife. I wasn't excited, of course. Being used to the 5D mark III, it was really hard to see that anything could come close. Now we have two Canon 6D bodies.... One for me, because my wife wouldn't let go of hers for me to really shoot all day with it. But the reason I have one now... The first impression. Holding it is NOT like holding a 60D. (which I've also owned more than one body of, previously) I think that's the common misconception by the general public who look at the specs and photos of the camera and say oh, it's a full frame 60D. It is not. It's definitely heavier, feels like I have a better grip on it, and the control layout seems to make slightly better sense. You will definitely notice that it is better built than a 60D from when you first pick it up. I have exactly one issue with it that the 60D might have a tiny advantage in. And that's the fact I can't program the SET button to go directly to white balance settings. I have a dedicated white balance button in the 5D mark III, why not the 6D? However, I said tiny because you can program the SET button for quick menu, and throw white balance into the quick menu. One whole button press behind, not that big of a deal unless you're shooting in a moving vehicle that passes different light temperature conditions in which you are required to shoot in at 5mph or faster. Seriously.
The AF is not comparable to the 5D mark III at all, and everyone is right in the regards of believing the very obvious truth that it is in a different league in that regard. But that's why people are going to buy the 6D, because not everyone needs the 5D mark III. Nor do they all shoot in death defying extreme weather. Back to AF, the 6D is no slouch. I can easily say it's AF is better than both the 5D mark II and 5D classic. In fact, I feel like it focuses faster than the D600 when I have a good lens attached to it like the 135mm F2/L or my colleague's 70-200mm f/2.8L II. Which is not a fair comparison of course, since I only used the 50mm 1.8 on the D600. I won't get in too deep with lens performance, but it does sort of make me feel like Nikon marketing is just throwing more points on the D600 to compensate for some of their lower performing Nikon lenses compared to Canon lens equivalents. Which of course, isn't true and I'm just a Nikon basher right? ~_^ Okay, so Nikon seems to have the edge on outer points for moving subjects. But in my 3-4 weeks of experience with the 6D, I can at least say that the outer points are very much usable in good light and a target with enough contrast, but it disappointed me for moving subjects. Note, this is the same disappointment I had for the outer points on the 5D mark II and 5D classic. Also note, I didn't know I had this disappointment until I became dependent on 1D mark III and 5D mark III outer point AF. So, if you're used to the old 5D bodies, or even the old 9 point system on the XXD bodies, you won't really feel a difference. The center point, however, is a miracle worker. With just a macbook pro lighting the master bedroom and not even facing the subject, I can lock focus and photograph my sleeping wife despite the fact I was forced to use ISO51200 to expose correctly at a hand holdable shutter speed. I'll have to test the same situation with a 5D mark III, but I know for a fact that even my 1D mark III couldn't do that or would hunt for a bit before it thought it could. The fact I'm able to lock focus on any shot that requires ISO51200 when my 1D mark III couldn't do it at it's highest ISO of ISO6400 changes the game a bit in that regard. I'm shooting a local wedding soon, and I'm confident enough to try the 6D as a backup body to the 5D mark III and see how it does in a very poorly lit church.
For high ISO performance, and sometimes, the way the images just looked at all ISOs... I was disappointed too, initially. I looked at some of my old 5D mark II RAW files, and they were obviously sharper when viewing the image full on. However, the softer images didn't bother me anymore after I saw how well it handled sharpening in Lightroom and unsharp mask in Photoshop. I loaded my 5D classic RAW files, and a lot of the ISO100 files looked cleaner somehow which I'm sure is because of the weak AA filter and bigger pixels. A friend of mine sent me a couple of D600 RAW files from one of his events, and they looked just as flat as my 6D RAW files. A lot of this is accurate towards what the general consensus is saying around the net with their tests. However, I don't care about the 100% crop tests because I don't deliver 100% crops to my clients. After editing all the files, I found that the 6D RAW files looked better than both 5Ds and still had more realism to human skin tone compared to the D600 RAWs. I can still praise the D600 in this regard, because despite the slight preference in skin tone, the D600 RAW files are quite good. However, I'm still in agreement with Sporgon on the fact I am not willing to trade Canon's weaknesses for Nikon's weaknesses. It's like trying to drive a ferrari with helicopter controls, it doesn't matter how fast your car is if you can't get it from point A to point B. Perhaps overboard with the metaphor, but you know what I mean. Canon warranty is better as well, but I won't get in too deep with that either. (Seems like I got pretty deep with everything else though, lol)
The bottom line is, you have to make sure you're buying the cameras from a photographer's perspective if you want it to do everything you need it to do. Like many say, the camera's eco system including lens selection and accessories is much more important, so narrowing this all down to just cameras will prevent anyone from making a truly open minded decision. Like I said earlier, I'd rather spend more time on the art of photography. I'm not a camera engineer, that's the camera maker's job. Specs, operation, and sometimes rumors, though they are important factors, are just a supplement to what it all comes down to and that's a good photograph. We're not supposed to be on the computer all day zooming in and shaking fists about dynamic range, we're supposed to be out taking photos. That's why I can easily recommend the 6D over the D600, because I know for a fact it does the job and doesn't give me long term issues that could slow down or harm my workflow in the field. But in conclusion.... All I can say is..... Just buy a 5D Mark III if you can afford it
- Ryan
Thanks for your informative thoughts. Well said from someone who shot Nikon, the 5D series and the 6D as well... I was once a Nikon user myself but didn't like the Nikon ergonomics, its lens system and from where I am, its after sales services is no way better than Canon....
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shutterwideshut said:Chosenbydestiny said:Sporgon said:
Well said Sporgon. I didn't shoot Nikon for 25 years, but I shot a Nikon system long enough in the film era to be a dedicated fan at one point in time. About 6 years to be exact, something I can't deny or regret. It certainly helped me jumpstart my dedication to events coverage. However, I was attracted to Canon when I began to see all the white lenses in highly inspiring and motivational events like the Olympics, presidential campaigns, and at local sports games in my hometown of San Francisco. It certainly made me very curious. Deep down inside, I wanted the speed, accuracy, and color renditions of the rapidly improving EF lens lineup. However, what really broke me in half with Nikon was when Canon released the ever so popular 5D classic. Everyone who's shot DSLRs for at least close to a decade know how much of an impact this particular model made when it was announced, and even bigger when all of the jaw dropping photos turned up. I can't really say that I switched, but when I bought my 5D with a 50mm f/1.4 my Nikon F4 never saw the light of day again after that. I had to sell it and settle for a 40D at one point but I bought the classic again when the Mark II got released. I kept loyal to the 5D series, and backed it up with a 1D mark III for shooting weddings eventually. When the 5D mark III came out I just had to do a double take and convince my boss to buy another one because the AF is just so buttery smooth with Canon lenses when shooting events. Then the 6D came out... I have to admit, I was disappointed. Canon gives us this war beast called the 5D mark III and puts a little innocent kitty cat next to it called the 6D. So I thought... Okay.... maybe my wife will like it. Maybe we can take it on vacations because it's smaller and lighter. Okay...it's so hard to defend against the D600 specs but we already have a lot of Canon gear...
After reading around in the Nikon forums, then going to the store to hold a D600 and try it out, I was disappointed in how it felt in my hands. Like Sporgon, the menus drove me nuts. I tested it in the store with a Nikkor 50mm 1.8 (which to be fair, feels better than Canon's 50mm 1.8 II BTW) Looking at the horrible LCD screen made me laugh, because it made realize that I was a film photographer that has become a chimper. But if I'm going to chimp, the LCD screen better be good. The slight green tint didn't bother me as much as I thought it would when reading about it. However, the image was cropped inside of the screen to make room for the settings... Wow. Even if that could be changed, it's really not a good idea to put that on a camera as default. Anyways, at that point, it really didn't matter to me what the Nikon images would look like on a computer screen anymore. I was holding a camera that an event shooter would have a bit more trouble using compared to a Canon system and even compared to the way my old F4 was. I'm used to my brother's D7000 layout, which I hate, and wish they changed it in future bodies. But nope, they brought almost all of it back. Also after that experience I have enough reason to believe that the live view/video mode is horrible on Nikon cameras in general. I'm also a cinematographer, and I am still facepalmed for Nikon for simple tasks like changing settings while in live view. I suppose they think everyone owns an entire set of AF-D lenses. This is an important feature with the most basic of functions that should have worked straight out of the box, seamlessly. The frustrating button placements and situations that caused me to menu dive constantly were enough to turn me off on just the camera alone. They should have kept it simple! These are vital operation constraints. Good photographers should be spending less time on the science of fiddling with controls, and more time on the art.
So I pre-ordered a 6D for my wife. I wasn't excited, of course. Being used to the 5D mark III, it was really hard to see that anything could come close. Now we have two Canon 6D bodies.... One for me, because my wife wouldn't let go of hers for me to really shoot all day with it. But the reason I have one now... The first impression. Holding it is NOT like holding a 60D. (which I've also owned more than one body of, previously) I think that's the common misconception by the general public who look at the specs and photos of the camera and say oh, it's a full frame 60D. It is not. It's definitely heavier, feels like I have a better grip on it, and the control layout seems to make slightly better sense. You will definitely notice that it is better built than a 60D from when you first pick it up. I have exactly one issue with it that the 60D might have a tiny advantage in. And that's the fact I can't program the SET button to go directly to white balance settings. I have a dedicated white balance button in the 5D mark III, why not the 6D? However, I said tiny because you can program the SET button for quick menu, and throw white balance into the quick menu. One whole button press behind, not that big of a deal unless you're shooting in a moving vehicle that passes different light temperature conditions in which you are required to shoot in at 5mph or faster. Seriously.
The AF is not comparable to the 5D mark III at all, and everyone is right in the regards of believing the very obvious truth that it is in a different league in that regard. But that's why people are going to buy the 6D, because not everyone needs the 5D mark III. Nor do they all shoot in death defying extreme weather. Back to AF, the 6D is no slouch. I can easily say it's AF is better than both the 5D mark II and 5D classic. In fact, I feel like it focuses faster than the D600 when I have a good lens attached to it like the 135mm F2/L or my colleague's 70-200mm f/2.8L II. Which is not a fair comparison of course, since I only used the 50mm 1.8 on the D600. I won't get in too deep with lens performance, but it does sort of make me feel like Nikon marketing is just throwing more points on the D600 to compensate for some of their lower performing Nikon lenses compared to Canon lens equivalents. Which of course, isn't true and I'm just a Nikon basher right? ~_^ Okay, so Nikon seems to have the edge on outer points for moving subjects. But in my 3-4 weeks of experience with the 6D, I can at least say that the outer points are very much usable in good light and a target with enough contrast, but it disappointed me for moving subjects. Note, this is the same disappointment I had for the outer points on the 5D mark II and 5D classic. Also note, I didn't know I had this disappointment until I became dependent on 1D mark III and 5D mark III outer point AF. So, if you're used to the old 5D bodies, or even the old 9 point system on the XXD bodies, you won't really feel a difference. The center point, however, is a miracle worker. With just a macbook pro lighting the master bedroom and not even facing the subject, I can lock focus and photograph my sleeping wife despite the fact I was forced to use ISO51200 to expose correctly at a hand holdable shutter speed. I'll have to test the same situation with a 5D mark III, but I know for a fact that even my 1D mark III couldn't do that or would hunt for a bit before it thought it could. The fact I'm able to lock focus on any shot that requires ISO51200 when my 1D mark III couldn't do it at it's highest ISO of ISO6400 changes the game a bit in that regard. I'm shooting a local wedding soon, and I'm confident enough to try the 6D as a backup body to the 5D mark III and see how it does in a very poorly lit church.
For high ISO performance, and sometimes, the way the images just looked at all ISOs... I was disappointed too, initially. I looked at some of my old 5D mark II RAW files, and they were obviously sharper when viewing the image full on. However, the softer images didn't bother me anymore after I saw how well it handled sharpening in Lightroom and unsharp mask in Photoshop. I loaded my 5D classic RAW files, and a lot of the ISO100 files looked cleaner somehow which I'm sure is because of the weak AA filter and bigger pixels. A friend of mine sent me a couple of D600 RAW files from one of his events, and they looked just as flat as my 6D RAW files. A lot of this is accurate towards what the general consensus is saying around the net with their tests. However, I don't care about the 100% crop tests because I don't deliver 100% crops to my clients. After editing all the files, I found that the 6D RAW files looked better than both 5Ds and still had more realism to human skin tone compared to the D600 RAWs. I can still praise the D600 in this regard, because despite the slight preference in skin tone, the D600 RAW files are quite good. However, I'm still in agreement with Sporgon on the fact I am not willing to trade Canon's weaknesses for Nikon's weaknesses. It's like trying to drive a ferrari with helicopter controls, it doesn't matter how fast your car is if you can't get it from point A to point B. Perhaps overboard with the metaphor, but you know what I mean. Canon warranty is better as well, but I won't get in too deep with that either. (Seems like I got pretty deep with everything else though, lol)
The bottom line is, you have to make sure you're buying the cameras from a photographer's perspective if you want it to do everything you need it to do. Like many say, the camera's eco system including lens selection and accessories is much more important, so narrowing this all down to just cameras will prevent anyone from making a truly open minded decision. Like I said earlier, I'd rather spend more time on the art of photography. I'm not a camera engineer, that's the camera maker's job. Specs, operation, and sometimes rumors, though they are important factors, are just a supplement to what it all comes down to and that's a good photograph. We're not supposed to be on the computer all day zooming in and shaking fists about dynamic range, we're supposed to be out taking photos. That's why I can easily recommend the 6D over the D600, because I know for a fact it does the job and doesn't give me long term issues that could slow down or harm my workflow in the field. But in conclusion.... All I can say is..... Just buy a 5D Mark III if you can afford it
- Ryan
Thanks for your informative thoughts. Well said from someone who shot Nikon, the 5D series and the 6D as well... I was once a Nikon user myself but didn't like the Nikon ergonomics, its lens system and from where I am, its after sales services is no way better than Canon....
you don´t have to quote everything....
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Canon-F1 said:shutterwideshut said:Chosenbydestiny said:Sporgon said:
Well said Sporgon. I didn't shoot Nikon for 25 years, but I shot a Nikon system long enough in the film era to be a dedicated fan at one point in time. About 6 years to be exact, something I can't deny or regret. It certainly helped me jumpstart my dedication to events coverage. However, I was attracted to Canon when I began to see all the white lenses in highly inspiring and motivational events like the Olympics, presidential campaigns, and at local sports games in my hometown of San Francisco. It certainly made me very curious. Deep down inside, I wanted the speed, accuracy, and color renditions of the rapidly improving EF lens lineup. However, what really broke me in half with Nikon was when Canon released the ever so popular 5D classic. Everyone who's shot DSLRs for at least close to a decade know how much of an impact this particular model made when it was announced, and even bigger when all of the jaw dropping photos turned up. I can't really say that I switched, but when I bought my 5D with a 50mm f/1.4 my Nikon F4 never saw the light of day again after that. I had to sell it and settle for a 40D at one point but I bought the classic again when the Mark II got released. I kept loyal to the 5D series, and backed it up with a 1D mark III for shooting weddings eventually. When the 5D mark III came out I just had to do a double take and convince my boss to buy another one because the AF is just so buttery smooth with Canon lenses when shooting events. Then the 6D came out... I have to admit, I was disappointed. Canon gives us this war beast called the 5D mark III and puts a little innocent kitty cat next to it called the 6D. So I thought... Okay.... maybe my wife will like it. Maybe we can take it on vacations because it's smaller and lighter. Okay...it's so hard to defend against the D600 specs but we already have a lot of Canon gear...
After reading around in the Nikon forums, then going to the store to hold a D600 and try it out, I was disappointed in how it felt in my hands. Like Sporgon, the menus drove me nuts. I tested it in the store with a Nikkor 50mm 1.8 (which to be fair, feels better than Canon's 50mm 1.8 II BTW) Looking at the horrible LCD screen made me laugh, because it made realize that I was a film photographer that has become a chimper. But if I'm going to chimp, the LCD screen better be good. The slight green tint didn't bother me as much as I thought it would when reading about it. However, the image was cropped inside of the screen to make room for the settings... Wow. Even if that could be changed, it's really not a good idea to put that on a camera as default. Anyways, at that point, it really didn't matter to me what the Nikon images would look like on a computer screen anymore. I was holding a camera that an event shooter would have a bit more trouble using compared to a Canon system and even compared to the way my old F4 was. I'm used to my brother's D7000 layout, which I hate, and wish they changed it in future bodies. But nope, they brought almost all of it back. Also after that experience I have enough reason to believe that the live view/video mode is horrible on Nikon cameras in general. I'm also a cinematographer, and I am still facepalmed for Nikon for simple tasks like changing settings while in live view. I suppose they think everyone owns an entire set of AF-D lenses. This is an important feature with the most basic of functions that should have worked straight out of the box, seamlessly. The frustrating button placements and situations that caused me to menu dive constantly were enough to turn me off on just the camera alone. They should have kept it simple! These are vital operation constraints. Good photographers should be spending less time on the science of fiddling with controls, and more time on the art.
So I pre-ordered a 6D for my wife. I wasn't excited, of course. Being used to the 5D mark III, it was really hard to see that anything could come close. Now we have two Canon 6D bodies.... One for me, because my wife wouldn't let go of hers for me to really shoot all day with it. But the reason I have one now... The first impression. Holding it is NOT like holding a 60D. (which I've also owned more than one body of, previously) I think that's the common misconception by the general public who look at the specs and photos of the camera and say oh, it's a full frame 60D. It is not. It's definitely heavier, feels like I have a better grip on it, and the control layout seems to make slightly better sense. You will definitely notice that it is better built than a 60D from when you first pick it up. I have exactly one issue with it that the 60D might have a tiny advantage in. And that's the fact I can't program the SET button to go directly to white balance settings. I have a dedicated white balance button in the 5D mark III, why not the 6D? However, I said tiny because you can program the SET button for quick menu, and throw white balance into the quick menu. One whole button press behind, not that big of a deal unless you're shooting in a moving vehicle that passes different light temperature conditions in which you are required to shoot in at 5mph or faster. Seriously.
The AF is not comparable to the 5D mark III at all, and everyone is right in the regards of believing the very obvious truth that it is in a different league in that regard. But that's why people are going to buy the 6D, because not everyone needs the 5D mark III. Nor do they all shoot in death defying extreme weather. Back to AF, the 6D is no slouch. I can easily say it's AF is better than both the 5D mark II and 5D classic. In fact, I feel like it focuses faster than the D600 when I have a good lens attached to it like the 135mm F2/L or my colleague's 70-200mm f/2.8L II. Which is not a fair comparison of course, since I only used the 50mm 1.8 on the D600. I won't get in too deep with lens performance, but it does sort of make me feel like Nikon marketing is just throwing more points on the D600 to compensate for some of their lower performing Nikon lenses compared to Canon lens equivalents. Which of course, isn't true and I'm just a Nikon basher right? ~_^ Okay, so Nikon seems to have the edge on outer points for moving subjects. But in my 3-4 weeks of experience with the 6D, I can at least say that the outer points are very much usable in good light and a target with enough contrast, but it disappointed me for moving subjects. Note, this is the same disappointment I had for the outer points on the 5D mark II and 5D classic. Also note, I didn't know I had this disappointment until I became dependent on 1D mark III and 5D mark III outer point AF. So, if you're used to the old 5D bodies, or even the old 9 point system on the XXD bodies, you won't really feel a difference. The center point, however, is a miracle worker. With just a macbook pro lighting the master bedroom and not even facing the subject, I can lock focus and photograph my sleeping wife despite the fact I was forced to use ISO51200 to expose correctly at a hand holdable shutter speed. I'll have to test the same situation with a 5D mark III, but I know for a fact that even my 1D mark III couldn't do that or would hunt for a bit before it thought it could. The fact I'm able to lock focus on any shot that requires ISO51200 when my 1D mark III couldn't do it at it's highest ISO of ISO6400 changes the game a bit in that regard. I'm shooting a local wedding soon, and I'm confident enough to try the 6D as a backup body to the 5D mark III and see how it does in a very poorly lit church.
For high ISO performance, and sometimes, the way the images just looked at all ISOs... I was disappointed too, initially. I looked at some of my old 5D mark II RAW files, and they were obviously sharper when viewing the image full on. However, the softer images didn't bother me anymore after I saw how well it handled sharpening in Lightroom and unsharp mask in Photoshop. I loaded my 5D classic RAW files, and a lot of the ISO100 files looked cleaner somehow which I'm sure is because of the weak AA filter and bigger pixels. A friend of mine sent me a couple of D600 RAW files from one of his events, and they looked just as flat as my 6D RAW files. A lot of this is accurate towards what the general consensus is saying around the net with their tests. However, I don't care about the 100% crop tests because I don't deliver 100% crops to my clients. After editing all the files, I found that the 6D RAW files looked better than both 5Ds and still had more realism to human skin tone compared to the D600 RAWs. I can still praise the D600 in this regard, because despite the slight preference in skin tone, the D600 RAW files are quite good. However, I'm still in agreement with Sporgon on the fact I am not willing to trade Canon's weaknesses for Nikon's weaknesses. It's like trying to drive a ferrari with helicopter controls, it doesn't matter how fast your car is if you can't get it from point A to point B. Perhaps overboard with the metaphor, but you know what I mean. Canon warranty is better as well, but I won't get in too deep with that either. (Seems like I got pretty deep with everything else though, lol)
The bottom line is, you have to make sure you're buying the cameras from a photographer's perspective if you want it to do everything you need it to do. Like many say, the camera's eco system including lens selection and accessories is much more important, so narrowing this all down to just cameras will prevent anyone from making a truly open minded decision. Like I said earlier, I'd rather spend more time on the art of photography. I'm not a camera engineer, that's the camera maker's job. Specs, operation, and sometimes rumors, though they are important factors, are just a supplement to what it all comes down to and that's a good photograph. We're not supposed to be on the computer all day zooming in and shaking fists about dynamic range, we're supposed to be out taking photos. That's why I can easily recommend the 6D over the D600, because I know for a fact it does the job and doesn't give me long term issues that could slow down or harm my workflow in the field. But in conclusion.... All I can say is..... Just buy a 5D Mark III if you can afford it
- Ryan
Thanks for your informative thoughts. Well said from someone who shot Nikon, the 5D series and the 6D as well... I was once a Nikon user myself but didn't like the Nikon ergonomics, its lens system and from where I am, its after sales services is no way better than Canon....
you don´t have to quote everything....
+1. You don't have to quote everything.
Upvote
0
I chose the 6D based on a few things, but mostly because I've always shot Canon. Despite only having 4 lenses and a flash and some other extraneous accessories, it would still be a hassle and relatively expensive (as an advanced hobbyist, semi-pro, whatever you want to call me) to chuck it all and go Nikon.
I actually have no issues with Nikon. They make good shizzle. It's the same argument, to me at least, as Apple vs. Microsoft, iPhone vs. Android, XBOX vs. PS3. I love tech, I am platform agnostic, and can/will change at any time. The D600 (and the D800 by extension) are pretty superb cameras, as is the Sony Alpha. I handled a D600, and it's nice, but the 6D just feels more solid. And it's probably just muscle memory, but the Nikon's "thinner" grips always feel slightly cramped to me vs. Canon, almost as if the edges are harder/sharper.
But what it all comes down to is that the differences are negligible - both cameras/systems have pros and cons. Just choose one, stick with it, and go shoot and have fun. Life is too short to agonize over the most minute detail. For every 3 shots you miss with a 6D and it's "supposed AF weaknesses", the D600 will miss on sharpness on 3 photos that you will be upset about. I just want to shoot, use what I know, and be done with it, regardless of what badge is on it - because the photos matter more to me. I'm more concerned with making sure my knowledge base is solid, the mathematics and settings and framing and my own stability/grip - those things make infinitely more difference than a couple of MP or whatever else the spec-sheet elitists want to crow about with any given camera.
I actually have no issues with Nikon. They make good shizzle. It's the same argument, to me at least, as Apple vs. Microsoft, iPhone vs. Android, XBOX vs. PS3. I love tech, I am platform agnostic, and can/will change at any time. The D600 (and the D800 by extension) are pretty superb cameras, as is the Sony Alpha. I handled a D600, and it's nice, but the 6D just feels more solid. And it's probably just muscle memory, but the Nikon's "thinner" grips always feel slightly cramped to me vs. Canon, almost as if the edges are harder/sharper.
But what it all comes down to is that the differences are negligible - both cameras/systems have pros and cons. Just choose one, stick with it, and go shoot and have fun. Life is too short to agonize over the most minute detail. For every 3 shots you miss with a 6D and it's "supposed AF weaknesses", the D600 will miss on sharpness on 3 photos that you will be upset about. I just want to shoot, use what I know, and be done with it, regardless of what badge is on it - because the photos matter more to me. I'm more concerned with making sure my knowledge base is solid, the mathematics and settings and framing and my own stability/grip - those things make infinitely more difference than a couple of MP or whatever else the spec-sheet elitists want to crow about with any given camera.
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0
My reasons:
1] EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
2] MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro
3] TS-E 17mm f/4L
4] EF 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye USM
5] EF 40mm f/2.8 STM
6] better ergonomics
7] aperture control in LiveView
8] Magic Lantern
9] mRAW, sRAW
10] Nikon lenses are more expensive
11] Nikon's backward lens mount just feels wrong
12] I can use any Nikon lens on Canon body (via adapter), like 14-24/2.8G (which is an UWA lens, so manual focus is not a problem)
EDIT:
13] No green tint LCD!
1] EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
2] MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro
3] TS-E 17mm f/4L
4] EF 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye USM
5] EF 40mm f/2.8 STM
6] better ergonomics
7] aperture control in LiveView
8] Magic Lantern
9] mRAW, sRAW
10] Nikon lenses are more expensive
11] Nikon's backward lens mount just feels wrong
12] I can use any Nikon lens on Canon body (via adapter), like 14-24/2.8G (which is an UWA lens, so manual focus is not a problem)
EDIT:
13] No green tint LCD!
Upvote
0
- Status
