Klaus_Kleber said:
Unfortunately, it seems to be a core value with some here at CR.
On the Internet Tubes, common courtesy is like common sense: It ain't very common.
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I killed my brand new 7D MK2 today
- Thread starter Klaus Kleber
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Unfortunately, it seems to be a core value with some here at CR.
On the Internet Tubes, common courtesy is like common sense: It ain't very common.
I'm puzzled about the warranty thing. It's a brand new camera. It never hurts to ask about the warranty. Then Canon will say yes or no. Why does anyone care either way?
IMHO, while the CF card slot design is a CF standard design (not Canon's), it has had the same design weakness since it was released over a decade ago. It doesn't resist careless penetration. I think Canon could have perhaps designed the slot so the tolerance leans toward tighter slot size so as to help prevent a mindless insertion without a bit more resistance/difficulty. I just tried to insert a CF card in the 5D3 sideways and it wasn't very hard (based on the minimum force needed to penetrate the slot). So the 5D3 can be easily damaged by a careless penetration as well.
Something I have done for years that I think helps prevent me from sticking it in wrong... painters' tape on the CF card. I put a tape tab on each of my CF cards that hangs off the back edge a bit. When I pull out and insert another card, I move the tape tab around to the pin edge and fold it over. This reminds me that this CF card is spent and can't be used again for this shoot. Now that I think about it, it also helps make sure that I am inserting the right way too.
IMHO, while the CF card slot design is a CF standard design (not Canon's), it has had the same design weakness since it was released over a decade ago. It doesn't resist careless penetration. I think Canon could have perhaps designed the slot so the tolerance leans toward tighter slot size so as to help prevent a mindless insertion without a bit more resistance/difficulty. I just tried to insert a CF card in the 5D3 sideways and it wasn't very hard (based on the minimum force needed to penetrate the slot). So the 5D3 can be easily damaged by a careless penetration as well.
Something I have done for years that I think helps prevent me from sticking it in wrong... painters' tape on the CF card. I put a tape tab on each of my CF cards that hangs off the back edge a bit. When I pull out and insert another card, I move the tape tab around to the pin edge and fold it over. This reminds me that this CF card is spent and can't be used again for this shoot. Now that I think about it, it also helps make sure that I am inserting the right way too.
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AcutancePhotography said:Klaus_Kleber said:
Unfortunately, it seems to be a core value with some here at CR.
On the Internet Tubes, common courtesy is like common sense: It ain't very common.
What utter nonsense.
How would you respond to this story?
I was taking some product images of a dishwasher the other day and I noticed my new camera had some smudges on it, so I ran it through a quick rinse cycle, now the On/Off button doesn't work, I am going to send it back and you all can pay for it, it is still under warranty, I only mention this as a heads up.
Save me from myself, it isn't my fault, everybody should compensate me for my stupidity, blah blah blah....
I had no interest in the thread other than why the OP thought he would "just send it back. Im pretty sure i will get a replacement without any trouble.". Because we all pay for that kind of 'repair' and it seems a clear feeling of entitlement with so many people nowadays.
I am all for good service, but when we expect things like this we all pay, and I don't want to contribute to fix other peoples stupidity, I never expect others to contribute to mine.
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privatebydesign said:
+1
Exact what I think there about.
That sounds hard, but it is the only reasonable solution, otherwise prices will be blown up that high that almost no one can pay anymore.
What I do break, I will pay.
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privatebydesign said:
The point is that it is possible to disagree with a poster without resorting to insulting them or calling them names.
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AcutancePhotography said:
I agree with that, but saying somebody did something stupid is not the same as calling them stupid. We all do stupid things, well I know I do, and I have no problem with people saying 'that was a stupid thing to do', interestingly, for once, I am in the clear here, it was jrista that first used the word 'stupidity' in the thread and that was long after I raised my question about the expectation of a warranty claim.
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*looks around for the thumbs up button*privatebydesign said:AcutancePhotography said:Klaus_Kleber said:
Unfortunately, it seems to be a core value with some here at CR.
On the Internet Tubes, common courtesy is like common sense: It ain't very common.
What utter nonsense.
How would you respond to this story?
I was taking some product images of a dishwasher the other day and I noticed my new camera had some smudges on it, so I ran it through a quick rinse cycle, now the On/Off button doesn't work, I am going to send it back and you all can pay for it, it is still under warranty, I only mention this as a heads up.
Save me from myself, it isn't my fault, everybody should compensate me for my stupidity, blah blah blah....
I had no interest in the thread other than why the OP thought he would "just send it back. Im pretty sure i will get a replacement without any trouble.". Because we all pay for that kind of 'repair' and it seems a clear feeling of entitlement with so many people nowadays.
I am all for good service, but when we expect things like this we all pay, and I don't want to contribute to fix other peoples stupidity, I never expect others to contribute to mine.
Well spoken, Private!
I hate to pay for my mistakes, but I would hate even more to have others pay for them.
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privatebydesign said:
This sounds like a familiar argument I have occasionally with my wife.
"Don't you call me stupid!"
"I didn't call you stupid, I just said that was a stupid thing to do."
Feel free to substitute whatever word you like for the word 'stupid'. The argument still ends up going the same way and I am usually in the dog house regardless. So the lesson here is that perception is 9/10 of the law...
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RustyTheGeek said:
Good point!
But if we can't use the correct words in the correct way what point is there to any of this? If we stop offering our opinions in a grammatically correct manner because it might be misinterpreted by somebody as an insult how do we communicate?
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neuroanatomist said:
I might have missed a comment?
If the card went in backwards to the point of bending a pin, something is defective in the camera. The guides for the CF card are bad or something related. Its not possible to slide one completely in with little force, or even strong finger force. I'd suspect that the card was inserted properly, but a pin was slightly out of alignment, and there was enough play in the mechanism plus the card pin location tolerance to catch the pin. That's why I don't like the CF interface. It existed before Canon started using it, and was a de facto standard. It also violates the standard rule for design of electrical connections developed at least 70 years ago when bent pins could cause fires and aircraft crashes. Never put pins on the power side of a interface, if there is no other possible way, do a bent pin analysis to insure that no single pin bent over can cause a short circuit or other damage that would ruin a product. That usually means isolating power carrying pins from the others with unused pins between.
The card interface was obviously designed by someone who had no experience with faults due to bent pins, and was convinced it was impossible. I know the type, I've had to battle subcontractors to force them to redesign.
I'd get rid of the card for sure, its likely a part of the problem. Hold location tolerances are difficult to control during manufacturing, and they have a way of moving after production due to the build up of stresses in the plastic. I've experienced that issue where parts were perfect, but the connector holes and even the pin side moved. We finally tracked it down to a cleaning fluid used in production that caused a super duper expensive engineering plastic relieve its stress, and the holes actually moved without any cracking. Measuring the true position of the holes to find this was another fun job, but it was something we routinely did to check each batch of parts that was going into Space.
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Yes. Using a square design was the first flaw. Using exposed pins was the second.
This train of thought reminds me of why heavy iron manhole covers are round....
If SD cards had the same or better performance, I might like them better than CF. But the larger size of CF is easier to manage and the performance is more robust. I've always thought of CF as like SCSI and Firewire. Much better performance from a transfer protocol designed to move data efficiently and reliably. SD is more common but slower. It definitely has a better form factor so it's more popular. (But SD is a bit too small for my taste.)
This train of thought reminds me of why heavy iron manhole covers are round....
If SD cards had the same or better performance, I might like them better than CF. But the larger size of CF is easier to manage and the performance is more robust. I've always thought of CF as like SCSI and Firewire. Much better performance from a transfer protocol designed to move data efficiently and reliably. SD is more common but slower. It definitely has a better form factor so it's more popular. (But SD is a bit too small for my taste.)
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
I assume that the card was inserted not backwards, but sideways (rotated 90° from normal). There's no design safeguard against that, the card can drop into the slot freely (easily confirmed by partially inserting it sideways...carefully!). Bryan at TDP reported doing that with his 7DII, and fixing the pin himself. When the link to TDP was mentioned, the OP lamented not knowing about that sooner, so I infer he made the same user error.
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I just tried putting a card in sideways and it felt different enough to me that I don't think I'd normally do it accidentally but I can imagine it happening.
I don't remember hearing about people doing this in the past. It's much, much easier to do with the Type II CF slot that most cameras have. If anything, it should be much less likely to happen with the 7D2 than it was with the 7D which supports Type II cards.
An aside: The move away from supporting Type II cards has now rendered my old microdrive obsolete, I guess.
I don't remember hearing about people doing this in the past. It's much, much easier to do with the Type II CF slot that most cameras have. If anything, it should be much less likely to happen with the 7D2 than it was with the 7D which supports Type II cards.
An aside: The move away from supporting Type II cards has now rendered my old microdrive obsolete, I guess.
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My apologies to the OP and anyone else that may have construed my comments as inflammatory, insulting or in anyway demeaning. I was simply attempting to point out the potential issue of attempting to have the camera repaired under warranty. It was not my intent to infer that someone was stupid.
As someone pointed out with a retailer such as Amazon; I believe its at the discretion of the retailer to accept returned merchandise during the warranty period but in this particular instance, I don't think sending the camera back to the manufacturer is gonna fly.
Not sure since I've never looked into it: how a return policy arrangement works between retailer and manufacturer. They may have some leeway in accepting returns and being reimbursed by a manufacturer up to a point. I've had repairs completed on my vehicle that were not "technically" covered by the warranty. However, the dealership probably absorbs a certain amount of work in the interest of Goodwill and customer service.
Hopefully, there will be a satisfactory outcome for the OP as a result of this experience.
As someone pointed out with a retailer such as Amazon; I believe its at the discretion of the retailer to accept returned merchandise during the warranty period but in this particular instance, I don't think sending the camera back to the manufacturer is gonna fly.
Not sure since I've never looked into it: how a return policy arrangement works between retailer and manufacturer. They may have some leeway in accepting returns and being reimbursed by a manufacturer up to a point. I've had repairs completed on my vehicle that were not "technically" covered by the warranty. However, the dealership probably absorbs a certain amount of work in the interest of Goodwill and customer service.
Hopefully, there will be a satisfactory outcome for the OP as a result of this experience.
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GraFax said:
I do not own a 7DII.
That said, any other Canon body I have used that uses a CF card will not allow full insertion of the card if the female end is rotated 180* and insertion is attempted.
Yes, the CF card goes in a little bit, but it stops. All I can muster is about 1/3 insetion if it is attempted incorrectly.
It is impossible to insert the CF card with the female end up (holes out). The end opposite the holes is wider in the narrow dimension.
There isn't much of a visible difference in the slots on the narrow sides of the CF card, so one of them may be worn on the card itself or the guide in the camera is out of tolerance.
I suspect that it is much more likely to insert the card on an angle, bending the pins in the camera. I damaged a card reader this way.
For the OP-
I would certainly try to get the repair warrantied without any lengthy details or "fabrications". It very well could be a design problem and not your fault.
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C'mon. Saying that because the CF card can be inserted sideways there is a design flaw is nonsense. That's like saying that Nissan did not design my car correctly because if I drive it off a cliff it won't run any more. You can probably destroy most things by using them in ways that were not intended, much less in ways that you have been warned not to do (i.e., RTFM).
This was an accident. An unintentional mistake. But it was a mistake, and not on Canon's part, but on the user's. This does not make the user stupid, just unlucky. It just ain't Canon's fault.
This was an accident. An unintentional mistake. But it was a mistake, and not on Canon's part, but on the user's. This does not make the user stupid, just unlucky. It just ain't Canon's fault.
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RustyTheGeek said:
New SD cards (i.e. newest standard, hq card) could have absolutely sufficient speed for 99% of purposes. It's just that Canon chose to continue building their pro cameras around cf, so they see little reason to improve sd - resulting in the hilariously low write speeds Canon controllers have.
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