Is canon going to come back?

[Robert Welch]

I think Canon and Nikon really differentiated themselves when the 5D3 and D800 came out. Canon seemed to be addressing the needs of their typical users who wanted a better 5D, the main complaints being AF capabilities and better shooting performance (frame rate, build quality, etc.), they addressed these and made the near perfect 5D. Few were really complaining about IQ, though they did improve that some, particularly in the high ISO range.

Nikon stepped out with a bolder camera design, one that wasn't for their typical shooter, but has some interesting features. I know a lot of Nikon shooters who have the D800, they love it for certain things, but not for others. Resolution is king with this camera, but performance otherwise not so much. The typical complaint I hear about it is the high ISO just isn't the best, most of these users have a D3s or even D700, which they prefer for event photography. I've heard of a few who have looked at the D600, so far the comments I've heard are it looks good, but not stellar in any particular feature, just a good combination for the price. When compared to other cameras, including the 5D3, it seems to be just a little less all around, including price. You get what you pay for there.

So, is Nikon way ahead? I don't see it's possible to say that as a general statement. Nikon has no equivalent to the 5D3, nor does Canon have a D800 competitor. It depends on your needs, if the D800 is better for your needs, then Nikon is ahead for you. If the 5D3 is better for your needs, then Canon is ahead for your needs. Lenses aside, they are both great, just pick the one that suits you.

 

[jocau]

Well I'm also one of those guys that worries a lot about Canon lagging behind a lot in sensor technology/performance. That's why I recently played around a bit with a D90 and a D7000 (last summer I wanted to buy the D7000 before I even held it because of its sensor performance). I must say that Nikon DSLR's are a thing of the past for me now. I really didn't like holding those Nikon DSLR's. In my opinion Canon has way better ergonomics (the grip is the best example of this). What I want to say is: don't judge a camera system only by its sensor. Do I wish that Canon made better/competitive sensors? Yes. Can I live with a better sensor but inferior ergonomics? No. Ain't no fun in shooting pictures with a camera that I don't like to hold in my hands...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Ask the same questions on Nikon forum and get back to us. Thy at least won't pull the Troll card, they'll sing praises and welcome you into their fold. You have one thing going for you, EF lenses hold their value. If you go to Nikon and then switch back I'm not quite sure you'll have the same luck.

So go to the Nikon forum and post the reverse question asking if Nikon is going to come back? It would be a obvious troll, and you'd be bounced out. Even though Nikon profits are falling faster than Canon's in 2012, it would provoke forum members.

 

[TriGGy]

Well Leolol's older posts show he is a Canon user who love the Canon ergonomics but is at the point that he would make that decision to cross over to Nikon because going FF and is more particular towards the new sensors. His only problem is now is his Canon glass and have to sell off some glass if he has to switch over. I say retain your old APS-C Canons and sell off your most seldomly used EF glass and try the D800 if it you really believe it will suit your needs. Crossing over brands as we all know is very expensive, but to me if I had the money I would love to buy Nikon D800, Olympus, Sony, and Pentax plus glass. Try to master the D800 and I hope you will be satisfied with it.

Cheers

 

[Dylan777]

"There is not a single lens that Nikon makes that tempts me to switch--Canon has a rival to match or beat everything they offer. Am I wrong?"

Well.... 14-24....

True... better than canon 16-35 according to reviews. Thats one anyway. I dont know enough to list out lens by lens. The 3 lenses I use primarily for portraiture and some video are the 50 1.2, 85 1.2 and 70-200 2.8 IS II. Nikon has no rival for the first 2 and I havent tried Nikon's 70-200 but general consensus based on reviews seems to be that the new canon ver. II dominates all others

You got it

 

[leolol]

Ok, i am going to try to answer all the responses etc.

Selling my stuff: My bill would be around 200€ higher if i switch, but i´d be switching for some good glass etc.

Honestly: Not trolling i´m just worried about my beloved canon. Maybe the title is a bit aggressive but i want a good discussion in here, not just some people beeing very friendly.

Lenses: Sure, Canon has the edge here. That´s why i chose them 4 years ago. But now, 4 years later, i came to realize that i will never really need those lenses and that Nikon has some really good glass to offer (for example the 24-70). And you can use their old glass on their new bodys too.

I have handled both, the Canon and the Nikon. In terms of ergonomics i didnt find anyone of those superior but i obviously enjoyed the canon more, as i am used to the system. Obviously the canon menu seems better to us but as soon as you get deeper into it it´s also complicated.

I didnt want to ask nikon guys as i already know their opinion. I wanted to ask us (or you guys and girls) about your opinions and if you guys think canon will be far superior when 18nm hits the market.

5d3/d600: Not comparable? Just a short list: 23/24MP, 6/5,5fps, 61/39 autofocus points (ok canon winns here by far), and now to the obviously nikon-dominant (and i just think that their testing is of) dxomark: 11,7EV/14,2EV. Thats much. Oh and ... 1200€ cheaper. 5d3 obviously is tuffer and for pros etc but IQ whise they dont have that many differences.

5d3 is a better package? I would love to know why.

"d800 destroying in most parts" (quote from myself) I never said every part, high iso is actually where the 5d3 shines, but a downscaled d800 destroys the d700 so you cant say that it´s far behind in that point either. A question: Was the d700 sensor already 18nm?

The rest besides the d800´s sensor. I dont see anything worse about the d800 against the 5d3.

dqreview. I know, if i want to have "good" statements i should post there. but i actually want the fanboy opinions and the more normal ones because i am a fanboy myself (on the canon side offcourse).

50 1.2, 85 1.2 Ok those are two really tempting canon lenses, cant argue about that.

For me it is the d800. But it is all about whats going to happen in the near future and if canon is able to make something like the d800 without beeing like "no we cant give you that" "no we had to loose some af point for the price".

When i first picked up a dslr i actually enjoyed the nikons more but the canons nearly equally as much. I actually disliked the middle wheel on the canons (thumb-wheel) cause you have to move your thumb so much.

Dont wanna troll anywhere. Sure Canon is making more money. Look at their pricing, they are just thinking "oh we can give pur customers anything, we dont have to compete with nikon. Lets put 11 autofocuspoints in there and say gps and wlan are much more important!" Thats what i think about the 6D after i saw the first test footage and the whole slow wlan stuff (turning it off in video mode etc), no clean hdmi. They are trolling us.

Yes i love my canon stuff. Havent had a problem with any but i just cant afford to keep my stuff and get a Nikon. For me going FF is a big investment and that would be too much.

 

[Marsu42]

I want to stick with canon but if they are going to make their first competitive body in like 5 years i really have to consider switching....

Canon will come back when they want to, simple as that - Nikon's sensor advantage won't last forever, but the real issue lies in Canon's "different" marketing strategy.

The 5d3 is on par with the d800 on higher iso levels when the dynamic range advantage of the d800 melts away, so it's really a matter of preference - better af over more mp, esp. since the 5d3 price is dropping.

However, the 6d specs are much more annoying - Canon did this in full view of the Nikon competition, and there's no excuse they've got caught off guard like with the the d800. It's not only the af system, but comparing the specs to the d600 is a disgrace for the higher-priced Canon. That doesn't mean that the 6d will be a bad camera and that I wouldn't/won't buy it, but it's still very underwhelming. Canon will have to loose market share to get back on a consumer-friendly track.

 

[leolol]

Canon will have to loose market share to get back on a consumer-friendly track.

cant agree more. I am just pissed about what they are doing and for that reason (not only the d800 fits my style really well) i consider switching.

 

[robbymack]

Maybe I'm just a simpleton but it seems the op's post was meant to inflame rather than to start any meaningful discussion. And to be honest the Nikon/canon debate has been played out adnausem on this forum in the past so adding another thread does nothing to advance the conversation. I think most of us around here would agree if dr is the primary factor then nikon wins hands down, if high iso performance/af performance are primary then its canon. Pick your tool. If the d800 is right for you so be it, you shouldn't need/require the blessing of folks sitting behind a computer screen a thousand miles away.

 

[leolol]

My real question was if canon is going to be better when they come out with 18nm or if they will just be on pair with Nikon.

 

[robbymack]

My real question was if canon is going to be better when they come out with 18nm or if they will just be on pair with Nikon.

One sentence and a good question. The answer: no one knows. I doubt Nikon is resting on their laurels. But i would be surprised if canon isnt able to at least address some of your concerns in the not too distant future. Whether they do that at a price point you agree with is maybe another important issue. Advances come and go and every few years one will pass the other, you just have to deal with the ebb and flow...or have enough cash on hand to own both...

 

[leolol]

You´re right. I am shure that Canon is going to come back but when and how will they make it worth the wait. And because canon isnt nice to us i´m considering switching.

 

[Loswr]

And because canon isnt nice to us i´m considering switching.

Is Nikon nicer? : Ever needed a Nikon body or lens serviced? Hope you have a LOT of patience for their 'niceness'...

 

[PackLight]

Lenses: Sure, Canon has the edge here. That´s why i chose them 4 years ago. But now, 4 years later, i came to realize that i will never really need those lenses and that Nikon has some really good glass to offer (for example the 24-70). And you can use their old glass on their new bodys too.

What makes you think the Nikon sensor will be any better for you?

If you do not need the better lenses now with the camera equipment you have, you will not utilze the D800's potential, because that is the type of glass you will need to take advantage of the high MP sensor. If you are not striving to own the fine quality Ziess 21mm or 35m f/1.4 or other lenses of comparable quality and resolution, there is no need to want a D800 because you are waisting all that additional resolution.

Edit; a crappy lens on camera capable of high resolution, will give you highly defined crap.

 

[leolol]

I never had problems with canon service, i am talking about their whole product line (6d).

Obviously good glass is key. I meant that i dont need the MP-E, Tilt-Shift or any of those lenses.

 

[PackLight]

I never had problems with canon service, i am talking about their whole product line (6d).

Obviously good glass is key. I meant that i dont need the MP-E, Tilt-Shift or any of those lenses.

Yes it is. But you will need lenses that are L class prime quality for it to matter. That is why not long ago Zeiss anounced a new series of lenses aimed at the high MP sensors. This is probably an idication that the rumors will be true and a high MP camera from Canon is in the works.

 

[leolol]

It sure is in the works but it´s gonna be pricey, as always lately.
And glas is key but it is a bit overrated. We all know that we need good glass but many more lenses then you think are performing well on high MP bodys.

 

[kubelik]

And glas is key but it is a bit overrated.

just curious, what type of shooting do you do, predominantly? I've put good consumer lenses on my 5D Mark II and L-glass on my wife's T2i, and the images that come from the (vastly inferior) crop sensor look tons better than those coming from the full-frame. just because of the glass. what's overrated about it? the superior contrast, the better color, the improved AF response, the softer, smoother bokeh? if you have legitimately shot with both L and non-L glass and have come to the conclusion that glass quality is irrelevant, then like Neuro above I'm fairly surprised you are discussing sensor image quality issues.

 

[Marsu42]

Ever needed a Nikon body or lens serviced? Hope you have a LOT of patience for their 'niceness'...

I never tried Nikon, but I have tried Canon non-CPS (which is what European with only one camera body get, no matter how much L glass and flashes). Repair time for a Canon lens in Berlin is ~10-14 days... it should be noted that Tamron/Sigma lenses get repaired faster...

 

[Loswr]

And glas is key but it is a bit overrated.

Sorry, but you really can't overrate the importance of a good lens...

We all know that we need good glass but many more lenses then you think are performing well on high MP bodys.

Sure...and really bad lenses can take good pictures, so can iPhones. The point is that you're claiming a significant advantage of the high MP D800, but without a lens capable of delivering an appropriately matched resolution, you're leaving most (not all) of that advantage on the table.