Is it too late to buy a Canon 7D?

[Krob78]

Thanks everyone for your comments so far. I have used the 7D but with the 75 - 300 f4-5.6 III usm lens. It's not a great one as its very soft. I might burrow a friends 70 - 200, although he has the f2.8 IS II USM version.
Is there a massive difference between the f2.8 non IS vs the f4 IS? If I was to have a 7D would, is one better than the other? It would be used for sport and the occasional indoor event photog?

G, if you have the funds get it with the 70-200 f/2.8 with IS II or IS I and don't look back. You'll love that lens and the way the 7d resolves it. When I'm shooting with my 7d I either have my 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II on the camera or my 100-400mm L locked on... They are both awesome but for the sports I use the 70-200mm almost exclusively if it's indoors... The f/2.8 is huge for 7d... Someone else mentioned previously and I'll second it, the 17-55mm f/2.8 is killer for landscape work on the 7d...

 

[Krob78]

canon 7d is a geat camera imo. in low light, it does not offer as low noise at high iso as canon 5d series or 1d series. however, images turning out might not be great when quality of light is not there even with full frame. thus, number of people are choosing using flash (when shooting candid) or video light (when shooting portrait) in low light even with full frame, even pro... i am not a pro, just want to let you know. i am a curious hobbyist who willing to learn (NOT pay) anything to make a great image

i own 5d mark iii too, but still keep my canon 7d and canon 30d (mostly experiment and shooting my kids) for fun as well as backup, yet something that canon 5d mark iii cannot perform. for example: last weekend was my FIRST TIME of shooting bird. as if i did not have my canon 7d, i would probably not get any image or i would have to wait the bird get close to me.

in short, a crop mode camera is highly recommended if you do not own a long range tele-photo lenses:

here are some images that i shot last weekend with my friends. these are NOT that great, but hey first time of shooting. yet, i did not have flash, tripod (just camera and lens) since i do not have any experience about shooting bird. thing that i have learned after last shooting is flash duration...

note: these images has been cropped a lot, linked from facebook and shot with canon 7d, 70-200mm ii hand held... i am more about journalism than wild life

Very nice samples Ish, thanks for sharing!

 

[-Jarred-]

I was in a similar position, had a 600D and bit the bullet and got a 7D about 2 months ago. The only thing I find lacking is as mentioned, the ISO performance above 800. Other than that, its fantastic.

If/When the 7DII is released and it has drastically improved ISO, dual cards and 5DIIIs focus/metering I'l take the hit in depreciation and upgrade.

In your position, I'd hang out for the 70D this month to see how it compares to the current 7D and decide then.

 

[CharlieB]

We've seen 7D bodies as low as $999 NEW in recent times. Its not hard to find one for not much more than that right now.

Fantastic deal in a camera for that sort of price.

Yes, a little noisy at higher ISOs. But, on the other hand... its a bit of a sports car in its focusing and frame rate. You have to be the judge. Right now, for the money, nothing Canon has can touch it for wildlife or sports.

For real world prints, or realistic screen/eframe display, the noise limitations are really not too limiting. For pixel peeping... thats another story.

 

[Krob78]

We've seen 7D bodies as low as $999 NEW in recent times. Its not hard to find one for not much more than that right now.

Fantastic deal in a camera for that sort of price.

Yes, a little noisy at higher ISOs. But, on the other hand... its a bit of a sports car in its focusing and frame rate. You have to be the judge. Right now, for the money, nothing Canon has can touch it for wildlife or sports.

For real world prints, or realistic screen/eframe display, the noise limitations are really not too limiting. For pixel peeping... thats another story.

Nothing other can touch it that is, unless you go to the 1DIV, 1Dx...

 

[jrista]

We've seen 7D bodies as low as $999 NEW in recent times. Its not hard to find one for not much more than that right now.

Fantastic deal in a camera for that sort of price.

Yes, a little noisy at higher ISOs. But, on the other hand... its a bit of a sports car in its focusing and frame rate. You have to be the judge. Right now, for the money, nothing Canon has can touch it for wildlife or sports.

For real world prints, or realistic screen/eframe display, the noise limitations are really not too limiting. For pixel peeping... thats another story.

Nothing other can touch it that is, unless you go to the 1DIV, 1Dx...

You forgot the qualifier "for the money". The 1DIV and 1D X are thousands of dollars, the 7D can be had for less than a thousand. For the money, nothing from any manufacturer can currently touch what the 7D can do for nine hundred bucks!

 

[jrista]

I don't know what venues your sports photography covers but you might find the 70-200 a bit short. If you haven't tried the 200 in your typical situation, you should.
There's really something to be said for putting your money into the good glass, as others have recommended. Even a Ti takes great photos with a 300mm f2.8 IS USM (probably more than you want to spend but...), based on some bird photos a friend of mine has been taking lately.
Also, you mentioned a lens seemed soft. It could be the lens, or it could be the focus. Another nice feature of the 7D is the AF microadjustment. I have used the AFMA on both my 70-200 f2.8 (not II) and 500mm f4 (also, unfortunately not a II).

The 300mm f/2.8 L IS II is probably one of the worlds sharpest lenses right now. Even with the rather outdated 18mp APS-C sensor, the 7D produces unbelievable quality with that lens when used at f/5.6 or wider. Even with a 2x TC, the 300/2.8 II without AFMA produces much better quality than my 100-400 with AFMA!

Another alternative might be the EF 300mm f/4 L IS lens. It is much cheaper, much lighter, more manageable, and the aperture is decent. It can also take the 1.4x TC and become a 400mm f/5.6, which produces similar IQ to the 100-400mm L.

 

[Don Haines]

Thanks everyone for your comments so far. I have used the 7D but with the 75 - 300 f4-5.6 III usm lens. It's not a great one as its very soft. I might burrow a friends 70 - 200, although he has the f2.8 IS II USM version.
Is there a massive difference between the f2.8 non IS vs the f4 IS? If I was to have a 7D would, is one better than the other? It would be used for sport and the occasional indoor event photog?

My friend has the 70-200F4 non-IS.... I have the 70-200F4 IS.... I can not tell any difference in them until the shutter speeds get slow and then the IS makes life easier. When I went shopping to pick up my 70-200F4 IS, I also looked at the 70-200 F2.8 IS and took a lot of comparison pictures between the two lenses, and couldn't really see any appreciable difference.

The F2.8 (according to the MTF charts) is supposed to be marginally sharper, but I could not tell the difference.... they are both SHARP! The F2.8 is a bit faster, twice the price, and feels like twice the weight. I decided that I wanted the lighter lens, since I tend to use it stopped down a bit anyway.. The F2.8 did not really offer me any advantages other than depleting my bank account faster.

 

[dickgrafixstop]

Not unless the store is closed. 7D is a great answer regardless of the question.

 

[Zv]

The 7D is a great all round camera. I love using it, it just feels nice and begs to be used with a nice lens on the end. I like to use it for walk around or candids as the AF is quick, reliable and accurate enough to capture what I see (and if I miss theres always 8fps to help me out!). Some say it's not good at high ISO levels but I reckon up to 3200 is OK. I haven't tried it with my 135L yet but I reckon that will be a dynamite combo for indoor sports.

Although we might see a 7D2 sometime in the future, there is no certainty it will be what you are looking for. The 7D is more than capable. Pick one up used and start shootin. After you use it the 500D will seem like a toy!

 

[jrista]

To the OP: The only thing I recommend, if you plan thing a 7D might fit your needs, is to rent one and try it out in lower light situations. The 7D is one of those cameras you either love or you hate. I recommended it, like everyone else here, to someone about a year ago, and they absolutely hated it. I think their hate was unwarranted, and their complaints rather exaggerated the facts, but still...its a love or hate camera.

The problem is, while it was an EXCELLENT camera for it's time, it did not utilize a process shrink to the new 180nm process that more advanced sensor designs were starting to use at the time. Its 18mp sensor, the ubiquitous Canon 18mp sensor, is still manufactured on the decade-old 500nm process. As such, it lacks the photodiode area to support a decent FWC (it's only 20k e-), which limits the maximum potential SNR, which has a direct impact on noise. Even at ISO 100, the noise performance at 100% crop (or in other words, assuming you intend to utilize all of the pixels the 7D has to offer), is marginally better than the 5D III at ISO 400. ISO performance above 1600 is fairly poor as well as an additional amplifier is used for 3200 and 6400, and while with work you can get some usable shots at ISO 3200, images can still be quite noisy at that level.

If you are the type of person who cares very much about noise performance, then I really do highly recommend you rent the 7D first and try it out in the most demanding situations you think you'll use it in. Anyone who has used the 5D II in the past, or other FF cameras with their nice, big pixels and gargantuan full well capacities, will probably have issues with the noise of a 7D. Additionally, the 7D was the first generation of products to use the Canon 18mp APS-C sensor, and is also the only product to use dual DIGIC chips to process the images (which can cause quite intrusive vertical banding right into the mid-tones if you fail to maximize SNR with ETTR.) Canon's handling of that sensor improved with later generation Rebel products, and I've read, heard, and chatted about too many cases where people have found the 550D and 650D produced slightly better IQ than the 7D.

The AF system and frame rate are the real selling points of the 7D. If you need them and can't afford a 1D body, then there really isn't any other camera that fills the role the 7D does. If you can live with the noise, don't need ISO's above 1600 very often, and care more about locking focus, tracking your subjects, and getting the shot with lenses that cost less than $5000...then it is the camera for you. Just make sure you can live with the noise!

 

[el bouv]

+ 1 jrista

Very balanced opinion.

 

[mdmphoto]

I just bought a 6D after seeing the increased dynamic range and iso capabilities it offers over my 7D. Having said that I must say also that I love my 7D. I've owned the original Rebel, xTi, 40-, and 50D bodies, and the 7D is a radical upgrade to the best of those bodies on their best days doing whatever shooting they did best. I've owned this camera for some 3 years and it has been a fabulous tool for capturing the images I wanted, within its own limitation, which is its high-iso noise handling - for me, anything over 1600. I generally expect to get good shots to that point. I shot a Bulls game with a 70-200 f/2,8L IS at 2000 and the majority of the shots were very usable. Up to 2500 is usually usable for me after some software tinkering. I haven't felt comfortable beyond that, though I have even seen other shooters get great results at higher iso settings.
Anyway.
The af is spot on and fast - and the 19 selectable af points are something I miss on the 6D. I have rarely missed a shot using af. Until last week my kit consisted of a 50- and 7D bodies, but I will now sell the 50D, grip and all, and work with the 7- and 6D bodies. I am still hoping for enough improvement in the 7D II to warrant purchasing it, but I am very happy with my current combination. The 6D will be my portrait, landscape and low-light tool, but the 7D out-runs it for sports and nature (wild animals), the frame rate and crop fov lends itself to that type of shooting.
As for what to do, that is not so easy to answer. If you decide to buy the current 7D, I would buy it new. The price continues to stagger downward, and it will have a longer useful life if bought new. On the other hand, the 7D II is expected by the end of the year and should be as spectacular as the original when it was introduced. I would guess that gps and wifi will be built-in like in the 6D - by the way, those two features are fabulous, even though they do eat battery power. I would hope that the iso noise would be greatly improved with the new (?) sensor and mfg process. These things layered on top of the current specs would make the II very compelling for me next Spring. If you expect to need the frame rate and fov, along with the superior af system the 7D stands out, and most likely the 7D II even moreso. On the other hand, the 6D offers clear iq superiority, and its ff sensor will probably beat out the 7D II if it continues as a 1.6 crop. The much-maligned af in the 6D requires a little more deliberation, but definitely produces; although tracking fast-moving targets may not be all that easy. The thing is, if you decide to go crop, it probably makes more sense to wait for the new technology of the 7D II.

 

[Zv]

To the OP: The only thing I recommend, if you plan thing a 7D might fit your needs, is to rent one and try it out in lower light situations. The 7D is one of those cameras you either love or you hate. I recommended it, like everyone else here, to someone about a year ago, and they absolutely hated it. I think their hate was unwarranted, and their complaints rather exaggerated the facts, but still...its a love or hate camera.

The problem is, while it was an EXCELLENT camera for it's time, it did not utilize a process shrink to the new 180nm process that more advanced sensor designs were starting to use at the time. Its 18mp sensor, the ubiquitous Canon 18mp sensor, is still manufactured on the decade-old 500nm process. As such, it lacks the photodiode area to support a decent FWC (it's only 20k e-), which limits the maximum potential SNR, which has a direct impact on noise. Even at ISO 100, the noise performance at 100% crop (or in other words, assuming you intend to utilize all of the pixels the 7D has to offer), is marginally better than the 5D III at ISO 400. ISO performance above 1600 is fairly poor as well as an additional amplifier is used for 3200 and 6400, and while with work you can get some usable shots at ISO 3200, images can still be quite noisy at that level.

If you are the type of person who cares very much about noise performance, then I really do highly recommend you rent the 7D first and try it out in the most demanding situations you think you'll use it in. Anyone who has used the 5D II in the past, or other FF cameras with their nice, big pixels and gargantuan full well capacities, will probably have issues with the noise of a 7D. Additionally, the 7D was the first generation of products to use the Canon 18mp APS-C sensor, and is also the only product to use dual DIGIC chips to process the images (which can cause quite intrusive vertical banding right into the mid-tones if you fail to maximize SNR with ETTR.) Canon's handling of that sensor improved with later generation Rebel products, and I've read, heard, and chatted about too many cases where people have found the 550D and 650D produced slightly better IQ than the 7D.

The AF system and frame rate are the real selling points of the 7D. If you need them and can't afford a 1D body, then there really isn't any other camera that fills the role the 7D does. If you can live with the noise, don't need ISO's above 1600 very often, and care more about locking focus, tracking your subjects, and getting the shot with lenses that cost less than $5000...then it is the camera for you. Just make sure you can live with the noise!

Yeah I do get annoyed when I see some (not much) noise at ISO 100 but then again that is when viewed at 100%. For web use it's not noticeable. I guess if you were to print the image large you might notice. Most regular people don't even know what noise is. Never once has anyone commented on my images regarding noise. I reckon we photographers are just overly critical of our own images.

I'll do an experiment where I will shoot one image at high ISO and leave the noise as is and then another side by side with NR. See if anyone on my facebook can spot which is which.

 

[mdmphoto]

7D night shot @ iso 400 ( I think...) and a lit:tle work

 

[Krob78]

We've seen 7D bodies as low as $999 NEW in recent times. Its not hard to find one for not much more than that right now.

Fantastic deal in a camera for that sort of price.

Yes, a little noisy at higher ISOs. But, on the other hand... its a bit of a sports car in its focusing and frame rate. You have to be the judge. Right now, for the money, nothing Canon has can touch it for wildlife or sports.

For real world prints, or realistic screen/eframe display, the noise limitations are really not too limiting. For pixel peeping... thats another story.

Nothing other can touch it that is, unless you go to the 1DIV, 1Dx...

You forgot the qualifier "for the money". The 1DIV and 1D X are thousands of dollars, the 7D can be had for less than a thousand. For the money, nothing from any manufacturer can currently touch what the 7D can do for nine hundred bucks!

Agreed J, I didn't really forget that, I purposely didn't mention it though, yet I should have. I whole heartedly agree, for the money, it's a "best buy" for wildlife and sports, I absolutely love mine and can't seem to part with it, despite owning the 5d Mk III. I really love it and look forward to seeing what the 7D Mk II will offer if it becomes reality at some point this year...

 

[gshocked]

Hi all,

Thanks to all that have replied. It's great to see that there are other people in my situation.
I've been shooting for a while now and it really was time for a new body. After using both the 7D and 6D, there were definitely feature on both cameras that were must haves. So I've decided to bite the bullet and get a 5D mk III.
I wanted the speed of a 7D But have the low light capability of a 6D. It's a little more than what I initially wanted but I didn't want to make a compromise when getting a new camera body.

 

[Krob78]

Hi all,

Thanks to all that have replied. It's great to see that there are other people in my situation.
I've been shooting for a while now and it really was time for a new body. After using both the 7D and 6D, there were definitely feature on both cameras that were must haves. So I've decided to bite the bullet and get a 5D mk III.
I wanted the speed of a 7D But have the low light capability of a 6D. It's a little more than what I initially wanted but I didn't want to make a compromise when getting a new camera body.

Great choice G! I have the 5D Mk III also with my 7D. It's a fantastic choice. The AF system is far superior to the 6d and markedly superior to the 7D, which has better AF than the 6D imho.

I've found myself over the last few months using my 7D less and less. I love so much about the 7D but the image quality coming out of the 5D3 is so different and I capture a lot more shots with the AF than I did with the formidable 7D.

I think the 7D is a relevant camera to this day, the 5d3 although not a fair comparison being FF is certainly superior if one has the resources to make that purchase. You're going to love it!

Congatulations!

 

[jrista]

Hi all,

Thanks to all that have replied. It's great to see that there are other people in my situation.
I've been shooting for a while now and it really was time for a new body. After using both the 7D and 6D, there were definitely feature on both cameras that were must haves. So I've decided to bite the bullet and get a 5D mk III.
I wanted the speed of a 7D But have the low light capability of a 6D. It's a little more than what I initially wanted but I didn't want to make a compromise when getting a new camera body.

Congrats on getting the 5D III! When you need the best of both worlds, performance and low light capability, you gotta get the tool designed for that job. Aside from the 1D X, I don't think there is any better tool that covers the bases so well!

 

[Krob78]

Hi all,

Thanks to all that have replied. It's great to see that there are other people in my situation.
I've been shooting for a while now and it really was time for a new body. After using both the 7D and 6D, there were definitely feature on both cameras that were must haves. So I've decided to bite the bullet and get a 5D mk III.
I wanted the speed of a 7D But have the low light capability of a 6D. It's a little more than what I initially wanted but I didn't want to make a compromise when getting a new camera body.

Congrats on getting the 5D III! When you need the best of both worlds, performance and low light capability, you gotta get the tool designed for that job. Aside from the 1D X, I don't think there is any better tool that covers the bases so well!

++1