Is it worth it...for me?

[bycostello]

I am not a professional at all. I only started in July and even though people around me are saying I'm progressing pretty quickly, I feel like I still can't really get photos that appeal me and match my vision.

then u need to practice, new kit won't get u that

 

[unfocused]

One more opinion to muddy the water.

You seem to like portraits (based on your photo stream). The good news then, is that you can invest in lenses that will work on either full frame or crop without having to decide between the two just yet.

There is nothing in your pictures that will be improved by going full frame, but a lot that will be improved by getting a longer lens. Choices would be: 85mm; 100mm, 135mm or 70-200mm. All will give you a little more reach which will flatter your subjects and create greater separation between them and the background. Even on a crop sensor, all of these lenses are very usable for portraits.

Also, consider investing in a strobe. With the T3i you can remotely fire an off-camera flash. You'd be amazed at how much you can do and learn with a single off-camera flash and an umbrella.

Cameras are short-term investments, lenses are long-term investments. Invest in a lens or two now, and when you feel you've outgrown the camera, then start shopping.

 

[robbymack]

One more opinion to muddy the water.

You seem to like portraits (based on your photo stream). The good news then, is that you can invest in lenses that will work on either full frame or crop without having to decide between the two just yet.

There is nothing in your pictures that will be improved by going full frame, but a lot that will be improved by getting a longer lens. Choices would be: 85mm; 100mm, 135mm or 70-200mm. All will give you a little more reach which will flatter your subjects and create greater separation between them and the background. Even on a crop sensor, all of these lenses are very usable for portraits.

Also, consider investing in a strobe. With the T3i you can remotely fire an off-camera flash. You'd be amazed at how much you can do and learn with a single off-camera flash and an umbrella.

Cameras are short-term investments, lenses are long-term investments. Invest in a lens or two now, and when you feel you've outgrown the camera, then start shopping.

+1 glass and a strobe (430exii is probably all you need for now) should be the next step. I also liked this posters photostream, some of them could have used some fill flash (dont be afraid to pop the flash on The t3i when you need some fill flash outdoors) and it seems a lot where outside so no reason to worry about small spaces inside and for that the 17-55 is awesome on crop. I'd say a 85/100 1.8,either won't break the bank and would be a great choice, if it must be L then maybe the 100L macro, also a good portrait lens plus you can play with some macro, or a 135L but that may be a little long on crop but both are still half the price of an 85L

 

[Area256]

.
Sorry to rain on the shopping parade, but you need experience far more than you need equipment. You've already got decent picture making equipment; spend your time using that to make the best images you possibly can. Give yourself a year with what you've got. A few suggestions:

1. Get involved with a photo club or some class or group that will critique your work constructively. Typically, they will give you "challenges" to go out and get a particular type of picture so you have to get focused on what it takes to MAKE that kind of image.

2. Limit your shooting to only one lens for a day or week or so. That forces you to live within the limitations of that lens and schools you in the discipline of being challenged by limitations. Photography is nothing if not dealing with limitations. The better you get at accepting and dealing with that, the better photographer you will become.

3. Take pictures relentlessly. Shoot every single day. Maybe for 2013, do a 365 project where you have to take and post a picture every day. This forces you to do the work that makes you better.

4. Do some formal training (reading, classes, online videos, etc.) in the theory of photography -- composition, lighting, optics, etc. I know the more I do this the more it eventually sinks in.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses:

EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

EF 135mm f/2.0L. This provides some reach for the sports you mentioned, and it's great for low light, nighttime work. If you get this, go out and walk around at night taking pictures. Also spend a day doing "headhunting," portraits of everyone you see.

Both of those are L-class lenses and will become part of your kit when you move to full-frame photography. Also, you can get either one for less than $1000US.

Thanks for asking -- a good first step.

+1 This is great advice.

Also if you like taking pictures of people, I can't empathize enough how important it is to learn lighting! Both how to use external lighting (flashes/strobes/reflectors/modifiers/etc), and how to take advantage of natural light sources. Strobist.com is a good place to learn more about getting into cheep off camera lighting, but there are many other sources both online and in print. The best part of lighting is you don't have to spend a lot, since a cheap $100 manual flash will give you the same results as a $600 one in manual mode. I've had at least 10 times more ROI from lighting, in terms of how much it has improved my photography, than I have from better lenses/cameras.

Specifically I'd advise learning how to light and pose people; there are some amazing things that can be done with a combination of good posing and good lighting. Want to make a person look lighter and thinner, or stronger and larger? Want to create an atmosphere, or a specific mood? No camera will do that, but there are lighting/posing/composing tricks that will.

Now I'll admit I enjoy fancy equipment as much as the next person (I'm buying a 6D this week, and I own the 100mm f/2.8L macro and I love it for portraits and macro). And I'd love to own an 85mm f/1.2L, a 135mm f/2L, and a 5D3 someday. It's fun to shoot with awesome equipment. And if you have the means and will enjoy using it, why not. However, it won't make your photos automatically better. Only a combination of experience and knowledge will do that. Looking at your photos you are off to a great start already.

Best of luck, and keep having fun taking pictures!

 

[SJTstudios]

.
Sorry to rain on the shopping parade, but you need experience far more than you need equipment. You've already got decent picture making equipment; spend your time using that to make the best images you possibly can. Give yourself a year with what you've got. A few suggestions:

1. Get involved with a photo club or some class or group that will critique your work constructively. Typically, they will give you "challenges" to go out and get a particular type of picture so you have to get focused on what it takes to MAKE that kind of image.

2. Limit your shooting to only one lens for a day or week or so. That forces you to live within the limitations of that lens and schools you in the discipline of being challenged by limitations. Photography is nothing if not dealing with limitations. The better you get at accepting and dealing with that, the better photographer you will become.

3. Take pictures relentlessly. Shoot every single day. Maybe for 2013, do a 365 project where you have to take and post a picture every day. This forces you to do the work that makes you better.

4. Do some formal training (reading, classes, online videos, etc.) in the theory of photography -- composition, lighting, optics, etc. I know the more I do this the more it eventually sinks in.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses:

EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

EF 135mm f/2.0L. This provides some reach for the sports you mentioned, and it's great for low light, nighttime work. If you get this, go out and walk around at night taking pictures. Also spend a day doing "headhunting," portraits of everyone you see.

Both of those are L-class lenses and will become part of your kit when you move to full-frame photography. Also, you can get either one for less than $1000US.

Thanks for asking -- a good first step.

I agree 100%, expierience is Key. L lenses are there for the pros. Ive got an l macro and its awesome, and i love it but money can be spent much wiser. Go out and buy some cheap primes if you really want some new lenses. Primes make you expierience the world differently.
-canon 50mm 1.8
-canon 85mm 1.8
-old canon 35mm f2
-old canon 24mm/28mm 2.8
-canon 100mm f2
-canon 60mm 2.8 ef-s
-canon 15mm 2.8

Or even...
-canon 135mm 2.8 soft focus
-canon 20mm 2.8
-a lensbaby
-or even the canon 200mm f2.8 l

All these primes are sub $1000, all the ones in the top group would total $3000

L lenses are the pinnacle of lenses, but they're pro quality. Unless the photos you take will be printed poster size plus, you don't need a l lens.

If I had to go on a shoot with a 5dii and a 50mm 1.2 or a giant load of primes with a rebel, I'd go rebel. Lenses make the image. That's why not a lot of pros shoot with an 18-200. And I think anybody's friends would be just as jealous or think you're just as pro with 7 nice lenses, rather than a 1.2l

I like to think that amateurs unless they're filthy stinkin' rich should set a budget for gear prices. If you have to spend a year saving up for a 5d iii and an l lens, when you just shoot your kids, your wasting time and money. People are allowed to choose what they do, and I respect that, but I enjoy using my primes and my rebel to make stunning images, I make a little cash here and there, but not enough to justify such an expensive purchase. I buy the cheaper primes so I can make interesting images, my l macro is for the flowers, portraits, and I shoot everything with it. I've put aside a fund for a 70-200, since I use my telephoto for most of my profitable photos.

But I love primes, and that is how I learned and still learn how to shoot. Although the 1.2 lenses will wow all your friends and family for portraits, something like the canon 60mm macro or the 15mm fisheye will wow everyone, and that is where you could start making money, and the l lenses will become more justifyible.

I have my own printer for my house framing, and I love playing with it, it teaches me how to work colors, and now I can justify purchasing a large format printer. But, start out with your rebel, a couple primes, and some lessons, and you'll go far. You can actually ask Walgreens to print photos, and it's fairly cheap. I purchased 2 4x6's for 42 cents.

But if you really want an l lens, 135mm f2, or 100mm l macro. I highly recommend the macro.

And, best thing about small primes, you can wrap them and put them in your stockings

Santa left me a 50mm 1.8 ii, a 28mm 1.8, and a 430 ex ii nobody knew.

 

[Marsu42]

Ive got an l macro and its awesome, and i love it but money can be spent much wiser.

For non-outdoor (dust, sand...) macro work on a budget I'd advise a used Canon 100mm non-L ... there are tons around used so the price is rather low and it's a very good lens.

 

[Zv]

I disagree, if you want an L lens and you have the means why shouldnt you buy one? Reserved for pros my foot. almost everyone on this forum has an L and most are hobbyists. I regret NOT buying L from the start. Sometimes you just need a better lens.

 

[Marsu42]

I regret NOT buying L from the start. Sometimes you just need a better lens.

Personally, I think when buying ef (L) lenses for crop, it should be an educated decision like the need for dust sealing or the possibility to upgrade to ff. Esp. for uwa lenses the choices on crop smoke the expensive and/or mediocre offers on ff, and there are excellent value standard zooms for ef-s, too.

You're correct most people have L lenses and feel a 70-200/2.8ii is an absolute necessity, but this forum is really very biased - if you look at other more general, non-enthusiast forums it's completely different, so looking/asking around a bit is always a good idea.

The main bias is that of course expensive equipment is excellent, but few people have a direct comparison how/if the cheaper version would have done any worse - just about every Canon lens except for Rebel kits is at least decent. After buying expensive stuff you feel 99% of the time it was worth it, this is just human, and it's the same with me.

 

[M.ST]

RE to: I feel like I still can't really get photos that appeal me and match my vision.

All you need to match a vision is the right light and a perfect composition. Expensive equipment can only assist.

It´s very funny that everyone need or recommend a pro camera and pro lenses for hobby photographers.

 

[EchoLocation]

RE to: I feel like I still can't really get photos that appeal me and match my vision.

All you need to match a vision is the right light and a perfect composition. Expensive equipment can only assist.

It´s very funny that everyone need or recommend a pro camera and pro lenses for hobby photographers.

Says the man with 2 1DX's and an essay of gear for a signature.....
do you love using a T2i and an 18-55?
.....neither do most hobbyists who care enough about their gear to hang out on CanonRumors Forum

 

[Zv]

My first L was a 70-200 and first thing I noticed was the images look fine straight out of Camera, and that meant less time dicking around on LR trying to correct things like CA, color and contrast. Time is money, saved time = money well spent. ;D

 

[aprotosimaki]

I like your photographs especially your black and white work. I would seriously consider starting to work with off camera flash and spend your winter perfecting throwing light on to your subjects. I might even buy two flashes (since money is not holding you back) and get both off your camera. I bought a set of Cactus V5 triggers because the price was right and they seem to work ok for manual work.

 

[tron]

At minimum get a body that supports AFMA ...

 

[Zv]

I like your photographs especially your black and white work. I would seriously consider starting to work with off camera flash and spend your winter perfecting throwing light on to your subjects. I might even buy two flashes (since money is not holding you back) and get both off your camera. I bought a set of Cactus V5 triggers because the price was right and they seem to work ok for manual work.

+1

Yeah, get a couple of Yongnuo YN560II's and Cactus v5 or some other cheap trigger. A few gels and the speedliters handbook and your good to go!

 

[christianronnel]

I think the advice given here is somewhat "generational" in nature. Those who started out in film, when the gear is very expensive and processing is also very expensive, they didn't start with L grade equipment. But I think if they could afford it at the time they would have. Those who are starting out in digital age only need to spend on gear at the early stage of their hobby. Also new generation of photographers have access to fantastic photographs online which are taken with better gear. Anecdotally, there is this guy I know and he was talking badly about a kid younger than I am. He said, "I hate that kid already shooting with 5D mkII and L lenses. I didn't get to L lenses until 20 years into my career." I think that's just jealousy talking but I didn't say anything.

Personally, I would rather the gear I'm using not get in the way of learning. It's hard enough to control light, create good composition, pose the model, communicate to the model, make them comfortable. If you have to add the complexity of trying to use a gear a certain way because of it's limitation, well, that's not fun anymore. Here's an example of the gear getting in the way

The thing is that I want to get a FF camera as well, probably 5D3 just cause I like the more AF points as I HATE focus + recompose and I can't understand how so many people ONLY use the center point, it really doesn't make sense to me. So in a sense within a year I'm already thinking about spending about $5000 in new gear.

I disagree with this

-canon 50mm 1.8
-canon 85mm 1.8
-old canon 35mm f2
-old canon 24mm/28mm 2.8
-canon 100mm f2
-canon 60mm 2.8 ef-s
-canon 15mm 2.8

Or even...
-canon 135mm 2.8 soft focus
-canon 20mm 2.8
-a lensbaby
-or even the canon 200mm f2.8 l

All these primes are sub $1000, all the ones in the top group would total $3000

L lenses are the pinnacle of lenses, but they're pro quality. Unless the photos you take will be printed poster size plus, you don't need a l lens.

Why spend $3000 on gear you don't want or need.


But let's not forget the title of this post: Is it worth it...for him? My answer, rent them both and see if they are worth it. And with your statement:

I am not a professional at all. I only started in July and even though people around me are saying I'm progressing pretty quickly, I feel like I still can't really get photos that appeal me and match my vision. Also with my lack of experience I have trouble picturing the shot sometimes...

...With my photos do you feel like it's a logical decision? I mean I don't mind taking a chance and spending money but I also want to be mature into this decision and ask you guys who many of you might of gone through this or have expert opinions about this. I know I need more experience but it would be nice in a sense to have better gear to motivate me, which I might really need since Minnesota gets so dark so early now.

I still think the best advice given here is this:

.
Sorry to rain on the shopping parade, but you need experience far more than you need equipment. You've already got decent picture making equipment; spend your time using that to make the best images you possibly can. Give yourself a year with what you've got. A few suggestions:

1. Get involved with a photo club or some class or group that will critique your work constructively. Typically, they will give you "challenges" to go out and get a particular type of picture so you have to get focused on what it takes to MAKE that kind of image.

2. Limit your shooting to only one lens for a day or week or so. That forces you to live within the limitations of that lens and schools you in the discipline of being challenged by limitations. Photography is nothing if not dealing with limitations. The better you get at accepting and dealing with that, the better photographer you will become.

3. Take pictures relentlessly. Shoot every single day. Maybe for 2013, do a 365 project where you have to take and post a picture every day. This forces you to do the work that makes you better.

4. Do some formal training (reading, classes, online videos, etc.) in the theory of photography -- composition, lighting, optics, etc. I know the more I do this the more it eventually sinks in.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses:

EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

EF 135mm f/2.0L. This provides some reach for the sports you mentioned, and it's great for low light, nighttime work. If you get this, go out and walk around at night taking pictures. Also spend a day doing "headhunting," portraits of everyone you see.

Both of those are L-class lenses and will become part of your kit when you move to full-frame photography. Also, you can get either one for less than $1000US.

Thanks for asking -- a good first step.

Know your gear, get more experience, then decide what you're missing. Rent the gear you think you need, or like, for a week, or borrow from a friend. Expense it in your head. Don't have buyer's remorse. And don't be a lens collector. "The best gear you have is the one you carry with you." (unless you carry a cabinet, or a sherpa )

 

[fonts]

Thanks for all the replies!

Just clearing some stuff up: I only use a Sigma 30mm F1.4....the 17-55 was rented for a week where I wanted to record my cousins wedding. Link to video http://youtu.be/9Xwt1yE1Esk?hd=1 - it has spanish background music just to warn you.

But yea, so in terms of lenses, the sigma is always on the camera, the only other lens I have is the kit 18-55 which has stayed in my bag for idk how long.

I have researched hundreds of hours already online, and I think that's why I'm progressing as quickly as I am. I also am taking a basic digital photo class to make sure I have all of my basic foundation grounded. I will be taking another photo class next semester and even join the universities photo club as suggested.

Personally, I would rather the gear I'm using not get in the way of learning. It's hard enough to control light, create good composition, pose the model, communicate to the model, make them comfortable. If you have to add the complexity of trying to use a gear a certain way because of it's limitation, well, that's not fun anymore. Here's an example of the gear getting in the way

This is the whole reason why I am trying to invest in new gear. I know my limitations, and I'm to a point with my current body where I just "feel" like I need more coverage in what I want to do. I ALWAYS shoot in manual M mode. Like when I mean always, I mean it, cause there are times where once I switch to Av I get lost and have to reteach my self "ok, Ev Comp, change it with...this dial to get....this image". I installed ML to get me more stuff to mess around with in my menu, and I feel like that's not enough sometimes.

At minimum get a body that supports AFMA ...

Haha, yea trust me, I'm always second guessing myself if the lens needs it or not. Camera with AFMA would be nice.

I like your photographs especially your black and white work. I would seriously consider starting to work with off camera flash and spend your winter perfecting throwing light on to your subjects. I might even buy two flashes (since money is not holding you back) and get both off your camera. I bought a set of Cactus V5 triggers because the price was right and they seem to work ok for manual work.

Thank you! and I am thinking of buy the 430 EX II. I did play around with the on-camera flash settings (thank ML too for given me more control of the flash) and for my last couple of photos have been using a white sheet of paper to give me SO MUCH better and softer light to the subject. But yea, I think if anything an off-camera flash would be my next purchase.



Oh and it's not that I love taking portraits, I just like the experience of it, and with my school and work hours, its hard to get a chance to walk around in the day to get some different pictures.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

It's all been said so I'll just throw out my opinion... It sounds like you are starting off right, reading a lot and learning by using M and thinking about the shots. Don't get caught up in the hype of buying so much. It's not necessary.

The essence of a good photographer is not what he can do with equipment, it's what he can do without it! All the fancy stuff does is make it a little easier but you don't learn as much if you can overcome all the challenges with high ISO, fast fps, etc. For example, having a Classic 5D in low light forced me to improve my camera stabilization technique and watch for subject movement. It also eventually made me really appreciate the difference a faster lens makes.

- Don't spend a lot of money now. Get ONE additional lens of your choice to enjoy at Christmas and learn.
- Learn about the LIGHT. Flash, Bounce, Diffuse, Available, Off Camera, whatever. Inexpensive triggers would be easy to add. Check out David Hobby's Strobist blog. It rocks for off camera flash info. Read Joe McNally. Lots of great interesting stories about real life challenges and how their experience saved them, not their equipment.
- Build evenly. Buying a 5D3 is NOT building evenly. This stuff isn't going anywhere. Buy what you need a little at a time and really use it as you buy it. After a year of heavy use, you will really know what you want or need and perhaps you can get a great used 5D3 for less if you still even want it.
- Get protection for your equipment, small things like a monopod and/or tripod, high quality strap and case system with room to grow, etc.
- If you want to experience FF, rent and then perhaps buy a 5D Classic or 5D2 used. What's the rush to spend $3K on a body?

EQUIPMENT OVERLOAD - I can't emphasize this enough... it won't be long before you will experience frustration with too much equipment. I know that sounds hard to believe but eventually you will have trouble choosing which lenses to take, which body works best, should I just take it all?, etc. You'll start having storage issues. It will happen. So don't rush it. I think many here will agree that there is a lot to be said about owning one body and two or three lenses total. The more familiar you are with what you own, the easier it will be to choose how you use it and what you buy next.

I'll repeat - take it slow. Buy used if possible. Sure you can go out and spend $5K on a body and one L lens but I think you will be robbing yourself of a much more interesting experience of slower growth. Enjoy the process and get plenty of books to learn from to maximize your satisfaction and knowledge. There is another thread on here currently that is discussing books. See my post along with others for good suggestions. http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11435.0

Have fun and shoot often!!

 

[Zv]

+1 on the gear overload thing! I always try to carry the lightest equipment possible for the situation, often opting for the cheap 50 1.8 as my only lens over my zooms. Makes me wanna buy the 40 pancake!

I can just about fit my camera, lenses and speedlites in one Kata 205 bug backpack so I always try to balance a new purchase by selling something. Like for like or lighter!

It's all about downsizing these days!

 

[AudioGlenn]

If you are happy with what you are doing u are a good photographer.

amen

 

[AudioGlenn]

to the OP. nice work man. keep up the shooting

I know this is an older thread but I would just like to add my votes for new gear purchases. I'm all for the newest/latest/greatest gadgets but frankly I'm surprised by all the recommendations for "specialty" lenses considering what you own and don't own.

I think at first, we need to shop for things offer quality (IQ), versatility, and value. This helps us learn more about what we want/need. We can then make more informed decisions about future purchases/upgrades. As an example, I thought I wanted to go ALL primes, but for my style of shooting, I found that I could do more with 2.8 zooms and in the end, save tons of money (at least before I decide I want all the prime lenses again!)

There are a handful of pieces of gear that really made a huge change to my photography. The most important purchases I made (for my style) when I first started were the following:

1) flash....get it off camera. get 2 if you can. when you have time to play with lighting setups, you can really change the look of your photos. Also, you don't have to worry so much about high ISO noise performance. Your t3i can already trigger a flash wirelessly. have fun with that.

2) ultra wide angle lens. (I got a used Canon 10-22mm when I first started). a very different look and one that I found I loved... especially for "fun" shots (family parties, dance floor at a wedding reception, etc.) I love playing with the distortion of a wide angle

3) 70-200 2.8 IS II sharpest lens I own. AWESOME bokeh. I thought you could only get this look from primes but the 70-200 is a beast. the longer focal lengths helps create a shallower depth of field. pair this up with a FF camera and you'll have TONS to play with. Not sure if I'd recommend an 85 1.2 before this (as some people have stated). The 70-200 is way more versatile and it's in the same price range.

4) Adobe Lightroom 4... not sure what you're using for post but this is a must. It's always a pain to learn new software (I came from Aperture) but this was probably one of my best (top 3) investments ever.

5) 5d mk3. FF has many advantages over crop. I didn't appreciate the differences in details until I tried it. (I borrowed a friends mk2)

on a side note: AFMA is very useful. It turned my old 50 1.4 into a lens that shined. Still found I was using it at 2.8 though so I sold it and bought a 24-70 II.

Best of luck to you. Keep us posted on your purchases. =)