Is it worth *really* studying photography?

[awinphoto]

There's been a lot of debate in the national press in the UK recently about the value of some school qualifications (GCSEs - taken at 16 after 2-3 years study). I have to say that my view of the photography GCSE qualification is that it's not worth the paper it's printed on. A friend of mine asked me to spend some time with her daughter recently, who has just completed her photography GCSE (and passed with flying colours). Whilst she could take decent pictures and had a good eye, technically she didn't understand even the most basic things - for example, she was fascinated with my collection of lens hoods - she had no clue what they were for. Unbelievable... Having a degree in physics, I'm a strong believer in a university education, but I believe it's better to go for solid high end courses, rather than vocational, so for photography, I would guess that physics with optics or an arts course would be of more value in the long term than an out and out photography course. And in parallel, get a good portfolio together.

No offense but at 16, that's like a sophomore/junior in high school here in the usa. When I was in high school I took photography classes because it was an elective and an easy A for me and it wasn't until my senior year 18 years old, that I decided to really studying photography and worked and went to college to study. Comparing a teenagers education to a universities education is foolish. There's been a lot of talk that there's no substitute for actual work experience and while I cannot speak for other schools, my school had an insurance policy on all their students, put us in the community taking pictures. The architecture class had a list of people wanting their houses/business photographed. Portrait/fashion had multiple model books of every type to model you can want. Not to mention open and free studios, lighting, hot lights, strobes, every lens to every camera you could need. Basically they put you in the working world, gave you direction, provided all the tools needed to succeed, and saturated you not only in technical knowledge but real life experience. I'd say if your school doesn't, didn't do that for you, then you went to the wrong school.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

If it is a serious photojournalism program it might help a bit in that you can get some experience setting up strobes and studio stuff in addition to regular photography and IF they say happen to be able to give you access to shooting top level sports from the sideline and a way to build contacts with those in the business and make your name recognizable to others who are in the business and have been through the program before.

But you don't really need to be part of a PJ program and get a degree in that IMO and can get 85% of that without being so. And considering the shaky, shaky market for that sort of stuff I think you might be much, much better off NOT going for a PJ/photo degree, at best I'd have that be a second major or minor, but it doesn't even need to be that.

I'd go to school for a non-PJ/photo degree, although in your case preferably one that has a major PJ program (even if you will not be a part of it) and/or at least a major student newspaper (if it has a major PJ program it will almost surely have this, although it might have it regardless) and just take a lighting class or two on the side and then work for the student newspaper. If you get lots of experience doing regular PJ work for them and also get to go shoot some major sporting events for them it might give you a big up on your CV to be able to list all that experience and the sorts of events that most people your age won't have been able to get access to.

(Sometimes things can be a bit insular and if you are not part of the PJ program the clicks and stuff might make it a bit tougher and things not always right or fair, if you are unlucky, but you should be able to easily get enough access and experience to make a difference anyway so it doesn't really matter, ultimately a minor point, which may have no relevance to you anyway, but just be prepared just in case and try to take it as real life experience.)

And those special for profit trade schools that cost as much money or more than top private regular universities I think are probably not so wise at all, in particular.

Anyway I'd tend to suggest going for a non-photo degree and doing your best at that and then just taking a few photo/PJ classes on the side and putting as much time as you can to working for school paper or interning at some local paper if you can. I think you'd have a nice backup plan then, which you very well may need in the current photo market and yet still get the experience and stuff to put on your resume. I could be wrong of course.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

business sense... the last one is what most people ignore..

Yeah if you don't go into PJ-type stuff then the last part is important, business sense, how to market yourself, be a real salesman, put yourself out there, the right sort of drive to handle that side of it might be 75% of it. Lots of great photographers don't have that sort of personality naturally and it might take them a lot longer to get going.

1 invest ( time - learning , equipment - not too fancy, but get what you need to get job done )
2 do 1-3 extremely cheap wedding to build up your portfolio. ( my first wedding job was a freebies to the couple ) next three wedding were a really cheap wedding, still to build up portfolio.
3. once you have enough portfolio your status will change from amateur to semi pro or pro where people are confident by looking at your portfolio then you can upgrade your pricing.
4 have a good: attitude, quality portfolio, do lots of marketing.

i have a lot of tips.. but the main thing is treat it as a business , so you can expand..

sounds like good advice

 

[scottsdaleriots]

If it is a serious photojournalism program it might help a bit in that you can get some experience setting up strobes and studio stuff in addition to regular photography and IF they say happen to be able to give you access to shooting top level sports from the sideline and a way to build contacts with those in the business and make your name recognizable to others who are in the business and have been through the program before.

This isn't a PJ course, we actually don't study PJ at all. I think it's more so learning about working in a studio environment and the history/theory of photography. We might touch a tiny bit on PJ. I've done 6hr PJ before, I didn't really learn much/anything useful, just stuff that I already knew and was common sense stuff.

Getting a piece of paper to say that you've studied photography is about more than just what you learn in class.

You won't understand that until you've got it.

At a very basic level, that piece of paper serves as a very basic first level filter for employees.

An employer might have 100 CVs to look at and they need to make it 1. They start applying filters to find those that are dedicated and talented. Your goal is to get through as many of those filters as possible.

Yeah I get it's a filter for employers. But in the long run what's more important? A piece of paper of a really good folio?

I'm asking photography studios if they're thinking of hiring anyone so I can get first hand experience of actually working in a studio. That's what I wanted all along; to work in a photography studio so then I could deduce whether I should spend thousands of $$$$ x10 to go to school and study it. Now it's reversed I'm studying just so I can get ha piece of paper so I can work in a studio

 

[scottsdaleriots]

Well I got word today that they've given me an offer to study a course to get into the film degree course i want (it's hard to explain how it works). it's more expensive than my photography course right now! it's gonna be over $15,000. Yes, over $15,000 to get into the film degree i want.

the orientation is tomorrow (and the rest of this week) but i have classes everyday, so i'm gonna have to skip class to get to this orienattaioin/enrolment thing. now i dont even know if it's worth it getting into this pathway to study a film degree. F&#king expensive blatant rip off! that's what it is!

 

[CanineCandidsByL]

Wow...lots of replies, too many to read through. Unfortunately, you shouldn't accept a reply as especially usefull unless a person has done it. I haven't studied photography in school, but if I tell you it isn't useful, I'm not a valid person to say it. Even if someone did study it and they say its useless, you have to know if they really put their heart into it.

All that said, I think those who studied art in general with some specialties in photography have the best overall background. I think colleges provided the best formal way of studing history of anything, but as my engineering professor said, aproximately, "Anything we teach you is 4 to 8 years behind the state of the art and will be another 4 years older when you graduate. If you want to keep up with the current state of anything, you also need to immerse yourself in the weekly/monthly publications, and you need to be involved to some degree in research."

While I don't think photography is that far behind at some colleges, others are even further behind, so you have to choose schools and professors carefully. Some teach the old stuff because thats all they know...and thats not good. Then some teach the old out of respect, and thats better but not great. Finally those that teach the old to help you understand the new, which they concentrate on....thats where you want to be. But don't forget that people who painted, understood composition and lighting in a way few photographers ever will. You can't invest days, weeks, months, and sometimes years into an image, and not be very aware.

Good luck!

 

[Daniel Flather]

All you need is a decent portfolio and a really, really nice website. It's all marketing, people. If you look good, you must be good, right?

 

[scottsdaleriots]

All you need is a decent portfolio and a really, really nice website. It's all marketing, people. If you look good, you must be good, right?

I wish it was that simple. I want to work in a studio (one of those franchise things) and get a taste, but everyone asks for a piece of paper and "are you qualified?" even though it's not necessary. It's stupid. I bet no one who is a papparazzi went to school to stidy photography, yet they get paid thousands of dollars for just one photo. It's a disgrace IMO.

 

[expatinasia]

I wish it was that simple. I want to work in a studio (one of those franchise things) and get a taste, but everyone asks for a piece of paper and "are you qualified?" even though it's not necessary. It's stupid. I bet no one who is a papparazzi went to school to stidy photography, yet they get paid thousands of dollars for just one photo. It's a disgrace IMO.

Of course they will ask you if you are qualified. You must remember how many applications these guys get per day! You need to demonstrate to them that you bring something new, better, unique etc to the table. You must show them why you are different from the rest and why they should pay you any attention. They are a business, and are always looking at bottom line in addition to current employee morale etc.

I would say school can be a great way to learn photography, but so is the real world.

Even the pros here on this forum are still learning from other pros. I see it all the time at events, press conferences etc, we are all sharing tips and ideas among our friends and even those we do not know online.

Good luck, and don't give up.

Oh and as for the papparazzi, do not forget they can go for weeks without any good shot or pay. Swings and roundabouts my friend.

 

[scottsdaleriots]

Of course they will ask you if you are qualified. You must remember how many applications these guys get per day! You need to demonstrate to them that you bring something new, better, unique etc to the table. You must show them why you are different from the rest and why they should pay you any attention. They are a business, and are always looking at bottom line in addition to current employee morale etc.

I would say school can be a great way to learn photography, but so is the real world.

Even the pros here on this forum are still learning from other pros. I see it all the time at events, press conferences etc, we are all sharing tips and ideas among our friends and even those we do not know online.

Yeah but why is it so frowned upon to 'learn as you go'? WHat would be so wrong sbout that, learning on the job each day? Do you think it's too much liability/responsibility/effort & time, etc?

Do you think it's better to start your own photography business and skip the schooling? I mean, at least half of the stuff you can learn online and from real world experience, one way or another isn't it??

You (and everyone else) should comment in my other thread
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3984.0.html

 

[noodle_snacks]

Why just look at this from a job perspective? It is natural to overestimate one's skills and knowledge. I think that *really* studying photography could be worth it if only one learns how much one has to learn.

 

[scottkinfw]

Here comes the flames, I can feel the heat, but.....

You sound very young, and it appears that you want to take the easy and cheap way out. That may or may not be the best way for you, I don't know. I think you have had wonderful advice, and it is time to fish or cut bait.

So, go do something, and get back to us, say every 6 months, let us know how you are doing. We will enjoy watching you grow up. Really, it is tough to make these transitions, but you can do it.

I have one other consideration for you. Why don't you look into the military? They need photographers as well as videographers, filmographers (?). Not only that, they will train you and pay you? After it is over, and if you don't like it, hey, they will likely pay you to go to college to do something else. You may also decide to go to film school on their dime.

So what do you say, time to move on to another topic?

I am ready to get flamed.

There's been a lot of debate in the national press in the UK recently about the value of some school qualifications (GCSEs - taken at 16 after 2-3 years study). I have to say that my view of the photography GCSE qualification is that it's not worth the paper it's printed on. A friend of mine asked me to spend some time with her daughter recently, who has just completed her photography GCSE (and passed with flying colours). Whilst she could take decent pictures and had a good eye, technically she didn't understand even the most basic things - for example, she was fascinated with my collection of lens hoods - she had no clue what they were for. Unbelievable... Having a degree in physics, I'm a strong believer in a university education, but I believe it's better to go for solid high end courses, rather than vocational, so for photography, I would guess that physics with optics or an arts course would be of more value in the long term than an out and out photography course. And in parallel, get a good portfolio together.

No offense but at 16, that's like a sophomore/junior in high school here in the usa. When I was in high school I took photography classes because it was an elective and an easy A for me and it wasn't until my senior year 18 years old, that I decided to really studying photography and worked and went to college to study. Comparing a teenagers education to a universities education is foolish. There's been a lot of talk that there's no substitute for actual work experience and while I cannot speak for other schools, my school had an insurance policy on all their students, put us in the community taking pictures. The architecture class had a list of people wanting their houses/business photographed. Portrait/fashion had multiple model books of every type to model you can want. Not to mention open and free studios, lighting, hot lights, strobes, every lens to every camera you could need. Basically they put you in the working world, gave you direction, provided all the tools needed to succeed, and saturated you not only in technical knowledge but real life experience. I'd say if your school doesn't, didn't do that for you, then you went to the wrong school.

 

[scottsdaleriots]

^ you're the second person I can recall here telling me I should enlist in the army. Its not for me, don't think I have what it takes.

Would it be better to work in a photography studio than spend 2-3 yrs studying it at school?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

As a retired engineering manager, my company had strict requirements for new employees.

Obviously, they were not trained in school for the specific job we were goiing to give tham, but... they had demonstrated that they were intelligent enough to pass the tests, they knew how to find information they needed and to apply it to solve problems, and most importantly, they proved that they could stick with the program and see it thru, even if the going got tough. Someone who worked their way thru school was even more valuable in that respect.

So, a diploma from a reputable institution is a valuable asset and will open doors. The individual then has to do his part and perform up to expectations. Arts is a bit different from technical work, because creative ability and imagination are very valuable, but working for a employer, they still expect you to follow orders and to do a job as they want it done. That does rub a bit on the more creative individuals who want to do it their own way.

 

[agierke]

i am a university instructor at a major university on the east coast in the US as well as a working professional and i have to say i am greatly concerned about current tuition costs for a BFA relative to the current job market.

the students at my university pay roughly 45k a year. we are a highly regarded institution but i cant get past the fact that these current students will have invested 180,000.00 in an education where they will struggle to find employment in excess of 20-30k a year for several years to come.

i also attended the same university that i now teach at and i remember we were often told that roughly 1 in 10 of the student body will still be working in photography 5 years after graduation. in my experience this estimation held true, but not because the 10% were talented but rather because they were persistent, determined and sacrificed to be able to survive in the world of commercial photography. many more talented individuals didn't make it simply because they couldnt handle the stresses and uncertainty that this lifestyle puts on you.

additionally, i advise all my students that their real education in photography begins the day after graduation. there is not nearly enough time over the course of 4 years to prepare a student for the rigors of owning a successful photography business nor does the platform of a university provide the proper environment to truly experience what it means/takes to be a financially successful creative person. it simply is just something you have live through to be able to truly learn it.

my best advice i can offer to any student wishing to have a creative career is be prepared to eat breath and sleep your chosen profession....7 days a week year round. if you are passionate about the medium you have chosen all things will work out on the end. those that succeed chose this lifestyle because they NEEDED to and not necessarily because they WANTED to. from my first day of art school to today, i was/am constantly thinking about my art, craft, and business whether i want to or not. if my mind goes idle it idles on photography. this is what passionate means and understand that there are countless people out there in all creative professions that you will be in competition with who feel the same level of fervor. they will work insane hours as long as it takes them to achieve whatever level of success they need to fulfill themselves.

so the bottom line is no one can tell you if this particular education is worthwhile to your particular experience. it boils down to asking yourself what you really want to do and then doing everything you are capable of to make it happen.

find something you LOVE to do....the rest will take care of itself.

 

[scottsdaleriots]

^ Appreciate your (and everyone else's) input. Persistence is key. Photography is a pretty cut-throat industry wouldn't anyone agree? You can either 'make it' or 'break'.

I'm thinking of dropping a few units, I'm not interested in them such as learning the history of photography and using 35mm (no one [there's like 60+ of us in that lecture class] understands the teacher or what he is trying to convey through the many lengthy dvd videos and powerpoints he's shown us).

i'm also enrolled in a bachelor of media and communicatfion course which i've yet attended of the lectures since i've been going to my regular classes at this institution. The BA in media & comm. has photography as a major about that's it.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

my best advice i can offer to any student wishing to have a creative career is be prepared to eat breath and sleep your chosen profession....7 days a week year round. if you are passionate about the medium you have chosen all things will work out on the end. those that succeed chose this lifestyle because they NEEDED to and not necessarily because they WANTED to. from my first day of art school to today, i was/am constantly thinking about my art, craft, and business whether i want to or not. if my mind goes idle it idles on photography. this is what passionate means and understand that there are countless people out there in all creative professions that you will be in competition with who feel the same level of fervor. they will work insane hours as long as it takes them to achieve whatever level of success they need to fulfill themselves.

so the bottom line is no one can tell you if this particular education is worthwhile to your particular experience. it boils down to asking yourself what you really want to do and then doing everything you are capable of to make it happen.

find something you LOVE to do....the rest will take care of itself.

+1

Well said, and it goes for any profession, persistence and hard work pays off.

 

[CandiColoredPixels]

I think it all depends on the person and what they want to do in their life. Yes, it's true you can do a lot of works without having to go to college and get a degree. But in general, if you want to shoot for magazines, the AP, The New York Times and other fantastic career paths, they would like to see your degree as well as your work.

I'm a college student and I love it. Yeah, it's not going to be fun in a few years when the loans papers coming rolling in, but in the end I think it will be well worth it. You learn a lot in college, not only from the instructors but from fellow classmates as well. You regularly have critiques where everyone has something to say on everyone's work, which you gain a lot out of. What works, what doesn't, what to work on, etc etc.

That's just my personal opinion though.

 

[iso79]

my best advice i can offer to any student wishing to have a creative career is be prepared to eat breath and sleep your chosen profession....7 days a week year round. if you are passionate about the medium you have chosen all things will work out on the end. those that succeed chose this lifestyle because they NEEDED to and not necessarily because they WANTED to. from my first day of art school to today, i was/am constantly thinking about my art, craft, and business whether i want to or not. if my mind goes idle it idles on photography. this is what passionate means and understand that there are countless people out there in all creative professions that you will be in competition with who feel the same level of fervor. they will work insane hours as long as it takes them to achieve whatever level of success they need to fulfill themselves.

so the bottom line is no one can tell you if this particular education is worthwhile to your particular experience. it boils down to asking yourself what you really want to do and then doing everything you are capable of to make it happen.

find something you LOVE to do....the rest will take care of itself.

Another thing students should do is to learn other skills to compliment your photography. In today's world you have to be multi-talented to survive. Also network like crazy. Networking is another thing they don't really teach you in college. Surround yourself with awesome talented people. Reach out to professionals you admire etc..

 

[unfocused]

But in general, if you want to shoot for...the AP...and other fantastic career paths...

ha! Obviously you don't know too many AP photographers!

Seriously though, your enthusiasm and attitude are great and you have a good handle on what it takes. Just suggesting that the AP is not exactly a promising career path these days. Actually, all photojournalism in general is a pretty dismal career path. Keep in mind that for every photographer you see on the sidelines at a major sporting event, there are several hundred underpaid souls plugging away on small and mid-market newspapers just praying to avoid the next round of layoffs.