Loving Canon right now.

[CowGummy]

This post is not intended to start a war on this forum, but I just wanted to voice my support for Canon at this point in time. Reading through recent forum posts on here, I get the impression that most people have gotten really fed up with the company and their products... I for one can't quite understand why? Call me a fanboy (whatever, I've also shot Nikon dslr, and going back a few years...ahem decades... Minoltas and Pentax 35mm slrs), but the sheer choice right now is brilliant if you ask me. Last year I was in the position of wanting to upgrade to Full Frame, and at the time there was literally only one (I will stand corrected on this - please do let me know) body in the canon lineup that I could consider for FF: The 5DII, which is what I bought. I've been very, very happy with my purchase, but alas, if Iwas making the jump right now, like a lot of people seem to be, I would have the choice of 4 bodies: 1DX, 6D, 5DII or 5DIII - seems to me like a great time to be entering the canon fullframe arena!?

I'm interested to hear why people are becoming more and more unhappy with canon products? If it's the price, in my opinion this doesn't really count... I know I'm gonna take some flack for this, but you get what you pay for and if you can;t afford it, either save your money or look elsewhere. I would like to drive a BMW M5, but I can't afford it. Instead I drive a humble VW golf. Doesn't stop me lusting after the M5, but I wouldn't start complaining to BMW about the price, and demand it drops down to VW pricing. It's simply out of my reach at this point. Tough totty.

As far as I can see it's a great time to be doing photography and canon is still the first port of call for me. My 5DII still takes awesome shots and I intend to keep it for another 5 years, much like my 400D before that.

 

[dr croubie]

I'm upset, not because of the 6D, but what it could have been.
Face it, the 6D is just an incremental 'upgrade' (and I use the term loosely) to the 5D mk2. Will it take pictures as well as the 5D mk2? Damn straight it will. Is it a fine camera? Well, it's as good as the 5D mk2.

But the 5D mk2 is 4 years old. It was groundbreaking 4 years ago, because there was nothing else like it. Now there's a lot like it, including itself.
The 6D isn't an 'upgrade', it's exactly the same camera with a few fancy 'rebel' features. It may as well be the 5D mk2n, or the 18-55 IS II.

10 years ago, Canon was groundbreaking, the 1Ds was the first FF DSLR that didn't break the bank (much).
Then 4 years ago, they were groundbreaking again, 5Dmk2 was the first FF that 'normal' people could afford, plus it had full HD video. The market went nuts, and justifiably so.
Canon were streets ahead of the competition, with good reason. Their R&D was good, they whipped the pants off anything from the yelow camp.

Then they turned into this:

4 years later, and what do we get? The same as the 5D mk2, give or take 5% better or worse in some areas.

The 5D mk3 was the upgrade for the 5D mk2, surely. It was the first time since the EOS 3 that top-of-the-line AF came in a non-1-series body. It has good IQ, good low-light. But it wasn't 'groundbreaking' in its price (and in terms of the competition, the D800 is a lot more 'groundbreaking' than the 5D3). The FF-for-the-masses was still the 5D mk2, Canon acknowledged that by keeping the 5D2 in the line-up.

The 6D does nothing. It replaces the 5D mk2. It does nothing to 'upgrade'. And then they have the balls to charge the same or higher than the 5D mk2. And they have even more balls to charge us just a smidge under the D600, for about half-as-much camera.

Nikon are catching up. Maybe in terms of sales, definitely in terms of tech. More power to them.
i'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say, i can't switch camps. Too many lenses, workflow, whatever. I can't afford a 5D3. If i could afford a 6D, i'd rather get a 5D mk2 and a good lens to boot.

The 6D is not a 'bad' camera. But it's 4 years too late, and $500 too much. We expected more.

Is there anything 'wrong' with the 5D mk3? Hell no, it's a great camera. But for that price, it's not 'the best' anymore. Weigh up Pros and Cons of 5D mk3 and D800, and you end up about even. You don't get the same as when you weigh up 5D mk2 vs D700, that was very tipped in Canon's favour.

Is there anything wrong with the EOS M? No, it looks very good. But again, it's just so very "mirrorless? me too!". OK, it's much better than some tiny-sensored things (i'm looking at you, J1). But it's just a Canon-brand NEX. Nothing has that 'excitement', nothing is 'groundbreaking'. FF NEX might be out next year, i'd get excited at that. Digital XPan might get announced tomorrow, i'll get excited at that. Leica just announced an M with Liveview. That may be 'incremental' from the M9, but when you realise that it's the first FF Mirrorless on which you can mount almost *any* FF lens ever made, that's exciting (it's unaffordable, but it's still exciting).


Does that make it our fault, for expecting Canon to continue to be 'groundbreaking', to be 'exciting'?
Yes, i'll wear that.
I expected more.
I will never expect anything 'exceptional' from Canon again.

 

[matt2491]

Well said.

 

[Kahuna]

I am upset too. Ferrari releases the 458 Italia in 2011 with a whopping 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds. Now in 2013 they'll be releasing the F12. It only does the 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.

I'm going with the Lambo Aventador.....

 

[tnargs]

I'm upset, not because of the 6D, but what it could have been.....I expected more. I will never expect anything 'exceptional' from Canon again.

Ah, unrealistic expectation resulting in upset.

For me, it is a very pleasant surprise. A more affordable FF Canon. Just what is needed.

It should be a very nice camera. Can't wait to see a full review.

 

[dr croubie]

For me, it is a very pleasant surprise. A more affordable FF Canon. Just what is needed.

Is it more affordable than a 5D mk2?
If not, is it that much better than a 5D mk2 to justify the extra cost?

You may love the GPS and the Wifi, and for you that's saved $500 in accessories or whatever, so that could justify the cost.
To me, they're worth $0 because I wouldn't use them. They're practically the only difference to a 5D2 (within 5% margin of upgrade/downgrade), so that extra price for practically the same camera is what hurts.

 

[Mark1]

I've got no issues with where Canon are headed right now and I like the 6D. People want ground breaking upgrades? Go mirrorless - that's where the true innovation is going to come from. Sensor technology for DSLRs is pretty much peaked now and YOU WILL NOT SEE MASSIVE UPGRADES IN IQ FROM NEW BODIES. Incremental improvements here and there maybe yes but the 5D2 was and always will be the ground breaker - it will never be surpassed in terms of what it bought to photographers in one huge dose. Get over it!

Nikon's DSLRs are great on paper but how will they perform in the real world? How tactile are they? How good is the glass? How much is the glass? How many AF points do you really need?

I reckon Canon are secretly miffed with all these newbies with too much money who bleat about bad AF and want more predictive and complicated systems in their cameras. Go buy an EOS1n with it's 5 AF points and run some films through it and learn how to focus properly. It's easy, you just need to understand the principle of depth of field.

I fear that the biggest issue is not the equipment that Canon are producing here but the new generation of photogrpahers who don't understand the basic principles of taking a picture.

 

[unfocused]

Cowgummy, you are being too reasonable.

Don't you know that the main purpose of this forum is to complain because Canon doesn't build each camera individually to the custom specifications of its customers for $1,000 maximum.

 

[buddhaboy]

Let me start by saying I love my canon camera. For me the frustration is not in the speed of upgrades, it's the out of whack practice of lower end cameras getting features first.

I think the 6D is what was needed, a more affordable entry level FF. What I'm pi$$ed that it comes with built in features (wifi control via smart phone & built in GPS) that are thing that I get to pay +$400 for on my Mrk III, or that are not available. These were features that I (and many others) wanted 4 years ago, and I kind of expected to be standard at this point in time on DSLRs. Now it appears I could have saved a lot of money going with this lower end camera to get all the features I wanted (FF, Improved focus, improved ISO, Camera and Movie Mode, Around 20mp, Built in GPS, WiFi control via smart phone).

As I recall, when the 7D came out, it ended up having a few features that the 5D Mrk II did not (but eventually did get). This is almost the same thing, but these features can't be added in firmware, they have to be purchased for a premium. It's like design and marketing aren't thinking when they come up with features for the users. More like how can we get the most money out of our users wallets? When it's time for me to get a new camera body in a few years, if Canon is still pulling the same stupid maneuvers, I'll be jump ship.

 

[pdirestajr]

Cameras come and go.

My 24mm f/1.4II, 135mm f/2, 70-200.... now those are some sexy things.

I'll run my bodies into the ground while I spend my loot on glass.

 

[Random Orbits]

Just remember that the 5D II won't be around much longer, so that comparison will be largely moot. At that point, you can get the 7D, 6D, 5D III or go with another brand. 7D is listed for 1500 even now, so how much lower could Canon price it at release? I'm sure that Canon expects the price to drop as time goes on, and that 2100 will be highest it plans to charge for it. How fast will it drop? That will depend on how well it does at 2100. I'm sure Canon was thrilled that Nikon priced the D600 at 2100 (if it is cheaper to produce than the Nikon, then Canon will have the flexibility to go after maximum profits or market share). However, with more plastic and a smaller size than the 5D II, the 6D is poised to go below the 5D II price of 1900 because it is cheaper to produce. After a few years, FF photography will be more affordable than it is now, and that is a win for the consumer. Value-driven consumers will not the majority of the early adopters; they will buy later when the price drops or when sizable rebates arrive.

 

[jjsanc2]

I love Canon as well and have to believe there is a reason why they chose to introduce a new AF system and sensor, rather than repurpose the 5DII sensor and 7D AF. Perhaps greatly improved DR? Perhaps simplified but excellent AF? Heck, with focusing at -3EV, this might be a low-light focusing monster with awesome high ISO capability. We don't know yet, but before bashing let's see what it can do. For a lot of people this will be exactly the camera that bridges them from crop to FF.

 

[robbymack]

Timely post. I love the fanboys on either side. They Keep the forum entertaining. Personally I am very happy with canon. I think there is more than "mega pickles" and dr. I fact I hate the ergonomics and weight of Nikon pro bodies. If you need the latest sensor tech from Sony go with one of their dslr's. They at least have in body IS. if you go to nikon let me know how you like their 70-200 or 24-70, oh you want a 24-105, 50 1.2, 85 1.2, or really anything longer than 300 sorry no real options. A camera is more than the body. Sure canon r&d got hit by a Sony juggernaut. I suspect in a few years time all dslr's will use Sony senors simply because they can access an economy of scale canon cannot.

 

[Meh]

I reckon Canon are secretly miffed with all these newbies with too much money who bleat about bad AF and want more predictive and complicated systems in their cameras. Go buy an EOS1n with it's 5 AF points and run some films through it and learn how to focus properly. It's easy, you just need to understand the principle of depth of field.

Whoomp, there it is! It never takes long... you guessed it... it's the "go learn how to use your gear and be a better photographer like me" post. Love it.

 

[Axilrod]

I agree with you completely on the price complaints, and have used a similar car analogy trying to explain it. This Louis CK video is pretty relevant to what you're saying, in summary "everything is amazing and no one is happy." Everythings Amazing & Nobodys Happy

 

[Mark1]

I reckon Canon are secretly miffed with all these newbies with too much money who bleat about bad AF and want more predictive and complicated systems in their cameras. Go buy an EOS1n with it's 5 AF points and run some films through it and learn how to focus properly. It's easy, you just need to understand the principle of depth of field.

Whoomp, there it is! It never takes long... you guessed it... it's the "go learn how to use your gear and be a better photographer like me" post. Love it.

I didn't say "like me" but I did mean like most people who don't rely on Canon to take their pictures for them. I think a lot of photographers are handing the creativity over to Canon and relying on them to make up for their shortcomings, like not being able focus in the same manner in which professionals have been doing for the last 50 years.

More af points means more fiddling with the controls and hoping the processor works out what you want it to focus on. That's all I'm saying.

The one thing I will say however is that I think it is very cheeky of Canon not to put the GPS in the 5D3.

 

[thelebaron]

I think that integrated gps, wifi and touch are pretty innovative for a dslr, especially a pro level(whether you think it is or not, its at the xD level). It sounds like its the 5d3's sensor just with the 5d2 level features with some evolutionary upgrades. Wifi, gps both sound like nice additions in the same vein as the electronic level, handy to have. Touchscreen hmm meh to me.
I dont understand people wanting this to be cheaper regardless of those features, why would a company place it at the level of another one of its products, namely the 7d? If you mark that down, the 60d price point is threatened and so on and so on. They dont want their products to compete with each other, and it opens up the very likely possibility of successors for those as well. I did expect the af to be at to be all cross types like the t4i's so that part confuses me.

 

[jfretless]

I think that integrated gps, wifi and touch are pretty innovative for a dslr, especially a pro level(whether you think it is or not, its at the xD level). It sounds like its the 5d3's sensor just with the 5d2 level features with some evolutionary upgrades. Wifi, gps both sound like nice additions in the same vein as the electronic level, handy to have. Touchscreen hmm meh to me.
I dont understand people wanting this to be cheaper regardless of those features, why would a company place it at the level of another one of its products, namely the 7d? If you mark that down, the 60d price point is threatened and so on and so on. They dont want their products to compete with each other, and it opens up the very likely possibility of successors for those as well. I did expect the af to be at to be all cross types like the t4i's so that part confuses me.

No touchscreen on the 6D.

 

[nicku]

I'm upset, not because of the 6D, but what it could have been.
Face it, the 6D is just an incremental 'upgrade' (and I use the term loosely) to the 5D mk2. Will it take pictures as well as the 5D mk2? Damn straight it will. Is it a fine camera? Well, it's as good as the 5D mk2.

But the 5D mk2 is 4 years old. It was groundbreaking 4 years ago, because there was nothing else like it. Now there's a lot like it, including itself.
The 6D isn't an 'upgrade', it's exactly the same camera with a few fancy 'rebel' features. It may as well be the 5D mk2n, or the 18-55 IS II.

10 years ago, Canon was groundbreaking, the 1Ds was the first FF DSLR that didn't break the bank (much).
Then 4 years ago, they were groundbreaking again, 5Dmk2 was the first FF that 'normal' people could afford, plus it had full HD video. The market went nuts, and justifiably so.
Canon were streets ahead of the competition, with good reason. Their R&D was good, they whipped the pants off anything from the yelow camp.

Then they turned into this:

4 years later, and what do we get? The same as the 5D mk2, give or take 5% better or worse in some areas.

The 5D mk3 was the upgrade for the 5D mk2, surely. It was the first time since the EOS 3 that top-of-the-line AF came in a non-1-series body. It has good IQ, good low-light. But it wasn't 'groundbreaking' in its price (and in terms of the competition, the D800 is a lot more 'groundbreaking' than the 5D3). The FF-for-the-masses was still the 5D mk2, Canon acknowledged that by keeping the 5D2 in the line-up.

The 6D does nothing. It replaces the 5D mk2. It does nothing to 'upgrade'. And then they have the balls to charge the same or higher than the 5D mk2. And they have even more balls to charge us just a smidge under the D600, for about half-as-much camera.

Nikon are catching up. Maybe in terms of sales, definitely in terms of tech. More power to them.
i'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say, i can't switch camps. Too many lenses, workflow, whatever. I can't afford a 5D3. If i could afford a 6D, i'd rather get a 5D mk2 and a good lens to boot.

The 6D is not a 'bad' camera. But it's 4 years too late, and $500 too much. We expected more.

Is there anything 'wrong' with the 5D mk3? Hell no, it's a great camera. But for that price, it's not 'the best' anymore. Weigh up Pros and Cons of 5D mk3 and D800, and you end up about even. You don't get the same as when you weigh up 5D mk2 vs D700, that was very tipped in Canon's favour.

Is there anything wrong with the EOS M? No, it looks very good. But again, it's just so very "mirrorless? me too!". OK, it's much better than some tiny-sensored things (i'm looking at you, J1). But it's just a Canon-brand NEX. Nothing has that 'excitement', nothing is 'groundbreaking'. FF NEX might be out next year, i'd get excited at that. Digital XPan might get announced tomorrow, i'll get excited at that. Leica just announced an M with Liveview. That may be 'incremental' from the M9, but when you realise that it's the first FF Mirrorless on which you can mount almost *any* FF lens ever made, that's exciting (it's unaffordable, but it's still exciting).


Does that make it our fault, for expecting Canon to continue to be 'groundbreaking', to be 'exciting'?
Yes, i'll wear that.
I expected more.
I will never expect anything 'exceptional' from Canon again.

You read my thoughts...

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

my take..I can be mad at a canon product but not canon as a whole. I like my mk3. And my 7d served me well. And my 24-70 and 70-200 truly rock. Would love to get my hands on the v2 of the 70-200. So I'm not mad at canon as a whole. But, I do not like the 6d, at least on paper. I guess we'll have to see the quality of the new sensor. Maybe it will surprise us? If it can hold its own at higher ISO's than the mk2 (maybe even close to the mk3, would love that but is highly doubtful of it too). If it can, great, but what of the AF? Is it back to center point recompose? If that's the case, yeah I can make it work but do i want to do that? I'd accept it if I were to snag a 5d2, but not on something brand new. Bottom line, will I buy it. Pretty sure the answer is no. As it stands, I'm saving towards a second mk3 or a used 1dmk4,. Has canon lost me as a customer, no, but as a buyer of this particular product, most likely yes.