More Big Megapixel Talk

[jouster]

I'm not sure if anything goes next to the 1DX on the right.

Look at the presentation - apart from the middle tier with 4 cameras, the 4 3 1 makes a pyramid.

If the 1DX was centered, it would ruin the entire aesthetic of the page.

The aesthetic is already ruined. If they want it to look pretty, they need to move it over to the right!

Or, release something for that gaping hole in the graphic.

 

[zim]

I'm not sure if anything goes next to the 1DX on the right.

Look at the presentation - apart from the middle tier with 4 cameras, the 4 3 1 makes a pyramid.

If the 1DX was centered, it would ruin the entire aesthetic of the page.

The aesthetic is already ruined. If they want it to look pretty, they need to move it over to the right!

Or, release something for that gaping hole in the graphic.

Exactly that's my point and on that basis there are actually two gaps to be filled, both on the right hand side....... don't ya just love a slow news day ;D ;D

 

[Musouka]

The 1DZ (or should that be the 1DY?) is coming soon, folks. Remember, you heard it here first. 8)

Z would of course stand for 'Zenith' but if it's a Y then we can hear the echo of fans reiterating 'Y So Late?'

I will be looking forward to seeing those partially non-mirroless cameras ;D

 

[bdunbar79]

The 1DZ (or should that be the 1DY?) is coming soon, folks. Remember, you heard it here first. 8)

Z would of course stand for 'Zenith' but if it's a Y then we can hear the echo of fans reiterating 'Y So Late?'

I will be looking forward to seeing those partially non-mirroless cameras ;D

Musouka, I have to do it:

PARTIALLY MIRRORLESS:

 

[zim]

I wonder if the Canon marketing people will embrace the Apple style of version numbering... I.e. dump it and just have product ranges and call a new one just "the new Canon 1Dx" etc ?

F1 -> New F1

Apple didn't even invent that one!

 

[zim]

How about calling it '1DA' so we can look forward to another 36 years of dripping roast upgrades :

sorry, sorry I really just couldn't help that one ;D

 

[Bengt Nyman]

Why would you spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?

The mirror, its inaccurate focusing plane and its slapping around are what prevents digital cameras from reaching the next level of resolution and accuracy. The 36 MP Nikon D600(E) is presently both camera of the year and Nikon's biggest headache. The era of the DSLR, the mechanical slapper box, is rapidly coming to a close.

 

[TAF]

I keep hearing mirrorless. Does anyone want a mirrorless camera like that? Why would yu spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera? What pro wants to be looking through the LCD?

I don't mean this in an insulting way, but why would canon make a billion dollar mirrorless?

The Single Lens Reflex was the solution to the viewfinder problem in interchangeable lens FILM cameras. The only reason it sticks around is a combination of tradition and conservatism. It is a solution to a rapidly vanishing problem.

Remember that before the SLR, the vast majority of interchangeable lens cameras were viewfinder types. The viewfinder was good for only one focal length; once you changed lenses, either you needed a separate viewfinder or a corrective optic that you looked through. Both solutions were unsatisfactory (and suffered from parallax), but it was all we had before the SLR. The only other styles were of course the view camera (where the SLR idea came from I imagine) and the TLR (where you had two lenses, and hence twice the cost).

Today, there is no need to look through the lens when the sensor can provide a perfect view to an electronic viewfinder.

You might still want a shutter curtain (doing it electronically isn't always the best answer), but there is no reason that a shutter couldn't still be there, it would just reverse the operation. Push the capture button and the curtain closes, then reopens to see the view again.

I for one would consider a FF mirrorless to replace my 5D3 in due course, provided it has all the same capabilities (particularly the high ISO and frame rate).

 

[RS2021]

I second that. It is a travesty only as long as the sheep dole out more money without demanding substantive changes from the camera maker. In this day and age there is no reason why we talk about "fps" in the 10's when this bottle neck is introduced primarily by the shutter/mirror mechanics and of course the speed at which the chips and the system are able to process and record the images falling on the sensor. Computers and chips evolve continually and very fast. As I see it...the primary hurdle is to break the strangle hold mirror boxes have over the community... but that will reduce the flimsy super-duper number the companies use to bait us with..8.9 fps!!! (Oh my god, you wet your panties!) ...the new cam is 9.2 fps...(OH My god!!! I need stronger Depends)...

Mirrorless full frames are the future, when this will happen... depends on the number of sheep... baaahhh!

 

[AG]

Mirrorless full frames are the future, when this will happen... depends on the number of sheep... baaahhh!

Or if you want mirror less "SLR" now you can buy one of the Sony Alpha cameras.

Used one the other day, it just felt wrong.

I missed the mirror slap.

 

[expatinasia]

How many people are there who actually need 8FPS in a 40MP camera?

Quite a lot I am sure, why not. Gives you more choices in post.

If this is true, and an 8fps 40Mp camera came out in the next 6 months, I am sure a few 1DX buyers would be pretty annoyed.

Would be interesting to see what technology they build into such a system. Headphone jack would be one - if you can call that technology!!

 

[xthebillx]

How many people are there who actually need 8FPS in a 40MP camera?

Quite a lot I am sure, why not. Gives you more choices in post.

If this is true, and an 8fps 40Mp camera came out in the next 6 months, I am sure a few 1DX buyers would be pretty annoyed.

Would be interesting to see what technology they build into such a system. Headphone jack would be one - if you can call that technology!!

X2
Being an early 5D3 adopter, it's kind of annoying that canon is releasing specs on the year's bodies one at a time. It's somewhat smart for canon; but at the consumer end, it sucks because if a body that better fits your needs is announced a quarter or two later you sell at a loss or buy another body. Announcing the whole line mid-year for the following year would be so much better for the consumer...it works that way for the auto industry!

 

[1DSLR]

I have a theory about what the upper left arrow means by pointing off and away from the triangle. That arrow represents Canon users that give up and change over to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic/Olympus/etc.:

(image from Northern Light)

Sony is the most likely since Sony has less invested in DSLR's. Unfortunately, Sony persists in failing to provide features expected in camera bodies at this price point for the more advanced photographer market sector.

For example, I would purchase a NEX 7 plus the new version of the Metabones EOS to Sony E-mount adapter to provide a digital back for my favorite Canon lenses while retaining their image stabilization and electronic aperture control. The NEX 7 reportedly has good focus peaking (3 selectable levels of focus peaking) for my focusing needs on that body. For a small, quiet, reportedly high IQ camera, Sony's new RX100 might become my new always-with-me camera.

However, Sony's NEX 7 and the RX100 both fail to meet one of my critical needs, autoexposure bracketing. The NEX 7 and the RX100 will autoexposure bracket a maximum of 3 exposures at a maximum of only +/- 0.7EV! Furthermore, this is never stated in the Sony's RX100 manual (which sets a new standard in inadequate documentation); you have to find out this from user reviews.

The NEX (and probably the RX100, but you can't find out from Sony's "manual") has an HDR mode, but then it only saves JPEG's, not RAW. What were they thinking?

I also have a theory why Sony continues to provide such inadequate AEB on some of its top end cameras. Actually the AEB specification was written to provide up to 7 exposures with each step up to 3EV. However, someone mixed up the numbers and a decimal point and it became only 3 exposures each up to 0.7EV steps. This error now perpetuates itself because no one wants to admit it; the loss of face would be too great.

 

[caruser]

Announcing the whole line mid-year for the following year would be so much better for the consumer...it works that way for the auto industry!

That sounds like an interesting comparison, we are so used to secrecy from companies like Canon or Apple, but on the other hand car makers don't seem to suffer it being known more than a year in advance when a replacement is due, and even other tech companies like Intel have reasonably well known road maps and schedules. So why?

 

[nicku]

I have a theory about what the upper left arrow means by pointing off and away from the triangle. That arrow represents Canon users that give up and change over to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic/Olympus/etc.:



Sony is the most likely since Sony has less invested in DSLR's. Unfortunately, Sony persists in failing to provide features expected in camera bodies at this price point for the more advanced photographer market sector.

For example, I would purchase a NEX 7 plus the new version of the Metabones EOS to Sony E-mount adapter to provide a digital back for my favorite Canon lenses while retaining their image stabilization and electronic aperture control. The NEX 7 reportedly has good focus peaking (3 selectable levels of focus peaking) for my focusing needs on that body. For a small, quiet, reportedly high IQ camera, Sony's new RX100 might become my new always-with-me camera.

However, Sony's NEX 7 and the RX100 both fail to meet one of my critical needs, autoexposure bracketing. The NEX 7 and the RX100 will autoexposure bracket a maximum of 3 exposures at a maximum of only +/- 0.7EV! Furthermore, this is never stated in the Sony's RX100 manual (which sets a new standard in inadequate documentation); you have to find out this from user reviews.

The NEX (and probably the RX100, but you can't find out from Sony's "manual") has an HDR mode, but then it only saves JPEG's, not RAW. What were they thinking?

I also have a theory why Sony continues to provide such inadequate AEB on some of its top end cameras. Actually the AEB specification was written to provide up to 7 exposures with each step up to 3EV. However, someone mixed up the numbers and a decimal point and it became only 3 exposures each up to 0.7EV steps. This error now perpetuates itself because no one wants to admit it; the loss of face would be too great.

Considering that Sony is providing ALL the sensors for Nikon DSLR's... I wonder why to compete with them when the sensor business is so good. Concentrate on mirrorless and high end compacts. Sony is addressing to the really big majority of the buyers - The compact camera users.

In my opinion a really smart marketing/profit move.

 

[meli]

I second that. It is a travesty only as long as the sheep dole out more money without demanding substantive changes from the camera maker. In this day and age there is no reason why we talk about "fps" in the 10's when this bottle neck is introduced primarily by the shutter/mirror mechanics and of course the speed at which the chips and the system are able to process and record the images falling on the sensor. Computers and chips evolve continually and very fast. As I see it...the primary hurdle is to break the strangle hold mirror boxes have over the community... but that will reduce the flimsy super-duper number the companies use to bait us with..8.9 fps!!! (Oh my god, you wet your panties!) ...the new cam is 9.2 fps...(OH My god!!! I need stronger Depends)...

Mirrorless full frames are the future, when this will happen... depends on the number of sheep... baaahhh!

Lets see what happens to the current MP leader, the d800:

It shares the same mirrorbox/shutter with D4 (11fps).
In this case if mirrorbox was at full speed you would have to move approximately:

74.4MB x 11 = 818MB/s or 6.55Gbit/s to the processor and then
41.3MB x 11 = 462MB/s or 3.7Gbit/s throughput to the storage.

Even if you could load the camera with serious ram and processor you would hit into power efficiency and thermal/interference issues which with the current technology would probably require also a complete redesign of the dslr form.

So in this case everything else in the chain is the bottleneck in getting the full mirror potential

Assuming that mirror/shutter would peak at around 10-14fps, data throughput & cpu intensive tasks (such as a move to 16bit files, lens correction, deconvolution sharpening etc) will balance out the advancements in tech for the near future.

Apart from that, evf vs ovf although promising still has a long way to go & i'd rather see fully fledged HUD implementations in the next slr generation than laggy dr-limited noisy evfs

All in all i would be confident buying slrs for the next decade!

 

[Bengt Nyman]

If you want mirror less "SLR" now you can buy one of the Sony Alpha cameras.

Not quite.
You still get a semitranslucent mirror, though stationary, but worse; Sony Alpha still uses off-sensor focusing.
The reasons why future high IQ cameras should be mirrorless is to achieve accurate image sensor focus, and to avoid SLR mirror vibrations.

 

[Daniel Flather]

My 2c.

The right hand side of the triangle represents mirrorless. The EOS-M is totally within this section as it is totally mirrorless. The 650D is half on the mirrorless section as it has composite auto-focus for video and liveview mode.

"What goes here?" - a new camera.
"What does this little arrow mean?" - the new camera will be either fully mirrorless or at least have composite phase/contrast auto-focus like the 650D does.

As opposed to partially mirrorless?

+1 I had the same thought.

 

[FunPhotons]

From a marketing standpoint I doubt they'll release a high FPS version, even if they could. Presumably they'll need to keep the same focus and exposure system as the 1DX, I can't imagine they'd cripple that with both the 5DmkIII and 1DX having it. If they also kept a high FPS then why would anybody buy a 1DX?

My guess it will have worse ISO and FPS, but otherwise be identical with the 1DX and having 40+ MP. If they do it.

 

[jouster]

Why would you spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera?

The mirror, its inaccurate focusing plane and its slapping around are what prevents digital cameras from reaching the next level of resolution and accuracy. The 36 MP Nikon D600(E) is presently both camera of the year and Nikon's biggest headache. The era of the DSLR, the mechanical slapper box, is rapidly coming to a close.

Its end can't come soon enough.