More Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[The Flasher]

Second card slot is a must to limit liability of failing cards, dropped and stepped-on cards, lost cards etc. Data redundancy starts in camera.

ps. Cards still fail, that's not even a debate.[/i]

To add, Don above was lucky it failed at the beginning of the shoot. Had it failed at the end, and had he'd spent $10k on equipment, production permits, talent, assistants, props, etc, and everyone had gone home before he realized the data was lost, there would have been tears. And money lost, insurance or not. And speaking of taking out insurance on a project, there's usually a data compromise clause, whereby you are required to shoot to redundant media, more so in the movie industry, but if there's enough money on the table, stills jobs as well.
To me dual slots a must - if the 6D didn't have a killer wifi feature and fantastic image quality warranting it's use on profeassional assignments, I'd be happily shooting 5D3 or 1ds3 and wouldnt be participating in this debate.

Cheers.

Don WAS lucky it failed at the beginning of the shoot.... and there was a second card in the camera so nothing was lost.... with the exception of the one shot where the camera reported that there was an error writing to the card and did not save the shot. I immediately replaced the bad card with a spare card and continued the shoot with 2 cards in the camera.

Everything will fail at one time or another.... cards die, hard drives crash, camera bodies turn into bricks... we do what we can to mitigate those risks.

On an important shoot, I carry two cameras and for a good reason. I had a camera die during a wedding, and because of the backup camera, nobody even noticed... I had another camera die while shooting the big group photo for a reunion (the day after the warranty expired..... don't know how they timed that????), and out came the backup body to save my bacon... and that wedding.... I was second shooter.... more backup

So two cards.... I regard it as a very good feature for professional usage, but just because a camera does not have two cards does not mean a pro wouldn't use it... A pro with a 6D would swap in a new card every now and then so that the entire day's shooting was not all on one card... better to loose just an hour than the entire day....

This just popped up on petapixel, re liability, data etc.

http://petapixel.com/2015/04/28/wedding-photographer-ordered-to-pay-couple-8800-after-losing-photos/

And that is a quantum leap from that situation to the two card slot argument. Besides, his contract must suck and it should be a matter for his insurers. At no point should your personal liability ever exceed your agreed fees and insurance should take care of accidental liabilities and legal fees.

Work smart people.

Yeah "smart" as in redundant data from the shutter to two cards. Quantum leap yes, in that if he had dual cards there may have been a chance he'd still have images, although in this case this guy failed on so many more levels..

 

[The Flasher]

A second card slot is not adequate protection from stupidity.

+1

 

[Bernard]

I have used the 6D for pro shoots, I would happily use the 6D for weddings.
(...)
Anybody that couldn't shoot an excellent wedding with a 6D shouldn't be shooting weddings, all modern digital cameras can easily do that.

You didn't read what I wrote. I never said the image quality wasn't good enough. I said it wasn't a professional camera.

If it rains at a wedding (it will), you know the shot the bride wants will have you out in the rain while the wedding party is covered and looking out. You have to get that shot, no negotiation, no excuses. You and your camera will get soaked, but that isn't your customer's problem. You took the job, you presented yourself as a professional, end of story.

The 6D is a fine camera, but it's not built to shoot in a monsoon every weekend and suffer innumerable bumps and bruises (and snow and dust and sand and spilled drinks). Using it that way is foolish, even though it will probably last 10 trouble-free years in the loving hands of an "advanced amateur."

If you are a professional, you need to have professional tools. Not excuses.

Put it this way: I have a toaster, had it 10 years already, and will probably still have it in 2020. It makes me two slices of "restaurant quality" toast every Saturday and Sunday morning. I'm not delusional enough to think it would last a week in a busy restaurant, but it suits me just fine. Do you get what I'm saying? Probably not.

 

[privatebydesign]

I have used the 6D for pro shoots, I would happily use the 6D for weddings.
(...)
Anybody that couldn't shoot an excellent wedding with a 6D shouldn't be shooting weddings, all modern digital cameras can easily do that.

You didn't read what I wrote. I never said the image quality wasn't good enough. I said it wasn't a professional camera.

If it rains at a wedding (it will), you know the shot the bride wants will have you out in the rain while the wedding party is covered and looking out. You have to get that shot, no negotiation, no excuses. You and your camera will get soaked, but that isn't your customer's problem. You took the job, you presented yourself as a professional, end of story.

The 6D is a fine camera, but it's not built to shoot in a monsoon every weekend and suffer innumerable bumps and bruises (and snow and dust and sand and spilled drinks). Using it that way is foolish, even though it will probably last 10 trouble-free years in the loving hands of an "advanced amateur."

If you are a professional, you need to have professional tools. Not excuses.

Put it this way: I have a toaster, had it 10 years already, and will probably still have it in 2020. It makes me two slices of "restaurant quality" toast every Saturday and Sunday morning. I'm not delusional enough to think it would last a week in a busy restaurant, but it suits me just fine. Do you get what I'm saying? Probably not.

I did read what you wrote, I disagreed with it because it is garbage. I wasn't referring to IQ either.

The 6D is every bit as usable at a wedding as a 1Ds. It rained at weddings before we used 135 format and any cameras had 'weatherproofing', which is a largely bullsh!t term anyway as there is no standard that is applied to the 'weather sealing' of any Canon camera. We used to have assistants to hold umbrellas before weatherproofing, last I checked, although they are old technology, that is still pretty effective.

Of course the 6D does not have the robustness of the 1 series, but it is plenty robust enough for pro work and anybody that thinks it isn't is delusional. I recently shot a couple of high end villas in the Caribbean with a 6D, it rained four out of five days and the camera worked perfectly through it all.

We need to get over ourselves, cameras today are so ridiculously good even the most basic models are more than good enough for many pro uses, and I am not talking about IQ, I am talking about AF, feature sets and durability. Would I expect my 1DS MkIII's to outlive a 6D? Sure, but that wouldn't stop me doing pro work with the five 6D's I could buy for the same money as I paid for the 1DS MkIII.

P.S. I might be in the minority here but my definition of a 'professional camera', is any camera in the hands (or under the control) of a professional photographer.

 

[Crosswind]

Will they come in other colors than black?
Once upon the time there were cool khaki and titanium color cameras.
Why not any more?

That would be pretty cool. Some kind of special limited edition. Like the SL1 white edition.

+ solid tilt-able display
+ ISO 102400 LiveView (up from current ISO 12800)
+ improved DR & low-light performance
+ 20x digital LiveView-zoom (up from 10x)

Anything else is not so important to me.

 

[Matthew Saville]

It's about having an immediate backup that is in your pocket or somewhere else, in case your bag or camera gets stolen at a wedding.

Hold on a minute. You are talking about shooting weddings with a 6D? It's a lovely camera, but what happens when it rains? Do you tell the bride that you can't get the shots she wants because it's too wet out? What happens when you drop your bag or bang the camera? Do you tell the whole wedding party that they need to reschedule because you didn't bring the right tools?

You know what, there's no point arguing. There won't be much left once the Mother in Law and her lawyers are done with you.

For the rest of us, let me be perfectly clear: the 6D is not a professional camera. Adding a second card slot will not change that.

If real customers are paying for your time and for results, you bring a camera that works in the toughest conditions. You don't bring excuses. Sure, you can experiment with a non-professional camera: run a few Polaroids, or shoot some stuff with a Holga, but that's in addition to the shots you are paid to cover. The 6D's images are not different enough from a 1Dx or 5D3 to justify being anything but the "last chance" fourth backup camera that stays locked in a waterproof container in the back of your car all day.

Isn't the 6D weather sealed? At least a little bit? Besides, I've shot weddings with plenty of un-sealed cameras. I keep a backup camera in my bag, of course, but no I'm not afraid of a little rain, nor am I afraid to use a camera with a single card slot. I just prefer to avoid both, if the option is presented to me.

BTW yes, having dual card slots is NOT a protection against stupidity. In fact, it makes your workflow more complicated, because you have to format two sets of cards afterwards, and this creates another possibility for confusion. I would only recommend using dual card slots in a professional environment if you are, in fact, an experienced professional with a solid workflow. Otherwise you might wind up accidentally deleting your RAW photos and shooting over them on the card before you realize all you downloaded was low-res JPGs. I've lost count of how many forum topics I've seen from folks who screwed up bigtime because they rented / borrowed professional equipment they weren't familiar with to shoot their first big job.

Either way, Bernard, it is clear that you are a die-hard fan of flagship cameras, and are wholly against the professional use of lesser cameras. I can get behind that, to an extent.

A serious, full-time pro should consider a 5D mk3 / D810 etc. to be the "proper tool" for most jobs. In fact I've scolded a few friends for thinking a 6D, or a D600, is all they'll ever need.

However, aside from the select few who are under-equipping themselves for serious work, I think we can agree that most of the buyers of any of these cameras aren't more than weekend warriors, or hobbyists, who will do just fine shooting their nephew's wedding with their 6D. The world will not explode. (Nor will they put US out of business)

Really, the only reason we're complaining right now is that Canon has decided not to respond to the D750 yet. In fact Nikon has three full-frame DSLRs that released for under $3K; Canon has one. (The 5D mk3, though it may be had for under $3K nowadays, MSRP'd at $3500)

 

[Don Haines]

Hold on a minute. You are talking about shooting weddings with a 6D? It's a lovely camera, but what happens when it rains?

It doesn't matter how waterproof your camera is.... the bride is inside, out of the rain....

 

[Don Haines]

You didn't read what I wrote. I never said the image quality wasn't good enough. I said it wasn't a professional camera.

If it rains at a wedding (it will), you know the shot the bride wants will have you out in the rain while the wedding party is covered and looking out. You have to get that shot, no negotiation, no excuses. You and your camera will get soaked, but that isn't your customer's problem. You took the job, you presented yourself as a professional, end of story.

The 6D is a fine camera, but it's not built to shoot in a monsoon every weekend and suffer innumerable bumps and bruises (and snow and dust and sand and spilled drinks). Using it that way is foolish, even though it will probably last 10 trouble-free years in the loving hands of an "advanced amateur."

Part of my kit is an umbrella

 

[Don Haines]

I might be in the minority here but my definition of a 'professional camera', is any camera in the hands (or under the control) of a professional photographer.

+1

 

[eninja]

If I was an amateur, I would choose a single sdcard slot. Even as a professional, I never had experience sdcard or slot fail. That makes as a consumer I would think that a camera that has two slots is just marketing and unnecessary weight.

Regarding swivel screen. I rather get no swivel screen to be recognize as a professional camera, after all it is a full frame, and with highest ISO IQ.

This is my opinion from consumer perspective.

WIFI is a must for everything now. Afterall, photo was made to share.

 

[eninja]

Canon will likely not include. I will not buy. Done.

I would. For the experts, what is the odd of sdcard or sdcard slot fails? or in other words, what is the chances that I would lost a photo (un recoverable) if incase sdcard or slot fails.

I hope someone can answer my query.

Thanks.

 

[eninja]

However, Nikon offers all those features, all together in a camera for less money.

Does it have dual pixel phase-detection focusing on 80% of the sensor area? Does it have the availability of an 11-24 rectilinear, an 8-15 zoom fisheye, or a diffraction-limited 100-400mm telephoto? Does it have an optically near-perfect 17mm and 24mm tilt-shift available?

Everything has a compromise after all. Like as per normal, there is more of those who don't understand than understand. If I would be asked which company I would like to work. I choose Canon.

 

[Spokagrapher]

This K fella doesn't seem to get the point that just because the features he needs are not present in the 6D or 6DII it means Canon are somehow ripping us off.

I don't have any reasons to believe Canon is ripping off anyone via the 6D. It's not like we're forced to choose Canon or the 6D. I chose it for practical reasons I already explained. It fits my budget, and I don’t need the things it doesn’t have.

Now let's drop this already and speculate on the 6DII's OTHER features!

Let’s do! Here’s what I want to see: 1) improved sensor with more resolution; 2) flash sync at 1/250th; 3) improved auto-focus, at least to the level of the 60D re: number of focus points, if not the 70D; 4) shutter durability to at least 150,000 actuations. If it has these improvements, and if the street price is not prohibitive, it’ll be hard for me to pass on this camera. I’m not looking for a 5D-something in 6D garb … just a good camera that does what I need for a good price.

 

[Lee Jay]

Canon will likely not include. I will not buy. Done.

I would. For the experts, what is the odd of sdcard or sdcard slot fails? or in other words, what is the chances that I would lost a photo (un recoverable) if incase sdcard or slot fails.

I hope someone can answer my query.

Thanks.

When my CF card died, I was able to recover all but 6 images. Sandisk recovered 5 of those 6. When my SD card died, I lost no images. So, in 11 years I've lost two cards and 1 image.

 

[eninja]

This just popped up on petapixel, re liability, data etc.

http://petapixel.com/2015/04/28/wedding-photographer-ordered-to-pay-couple-8800-after-losing-photos/

After the event in Seville, the photographer somehow deleted the photos without making any backup of them — and presumably without any way to recover the data.

A second card slot is not adequate protection from stupidity.

I started event shooting for client which includes wedding.

I guess I need to remove 'format card' from my shotcut.
I usually check remaining memory from 'format card',
I guess I should avoid this also.

I transfer data from card to laptop.
Eject Card and Never uses that card until photo was delivered to client or backup jpeg at least.
Did you mentioned this practice before Neuro?

 

[Loswr]

I transfer data from card to laptop.
Eject Card and Never uses that card until photo was delivered to client or backup jpeg at least.
Did you mentioned this practice before Neuro?

Yes, except for the delivery to client bit. I keep the images on the card until they're on my SSD and backed up to at least one (usually two) external drives in different locations.

 

[Sporgon]

It's about having an immediate backup that is in your pocket or somewhere else, in case your bag or camera gets stolen at a wedding.

Hold on a minute. You are talking about shooting weddings with a 6D? It's a lovely camera, but what happens when it rains? Do you tell the bride that you can't get the shots she wants because it's too wet out? What happens when you drop your bag or bang the camera? Do you tell the whole wedding party that they need to reschedule because you didn't bring the right tools?

You know what, there's no point arguing. There won't be much left once the Mother in Law and her lawyers are done with you.

For the rest of us, let me be perfectly clear: the 6D is not a professional camera. Adding a second card slot will not change that.

If real customers are paying for your time and for results, you bring a camera that works in the toughest conditions. You don't bring excuses. Sure, you can experiment with a non-professional camera: run a few Polaroids, or shoot some stuff with a Holga, but that's in addition to the shots you are paid to cover. The 6D's images are not different enough from a 1Dx or 5D3 to justify being anything but the "last chance" fourth backup camera that stays locked in a waterproof container in the back of your car all day.

There's some remarkable drivel being turned out in this thread regarding the 6D. How many brides do you see soaked ? Apart from ones which fall into pools. Which is more unprofessional, turning up to shoot a wedding on your own with one 5DIII or turning up with two 6D s, an assistant and an umbrella ?

And if I remember rightly, the first cameras to have two card slots had them to enable the use of either CF or SD cards, they didn't have two CF or two SD. I've never had a card fail, and they are so small and light you can keep them securely on your person when not in the camera.

Another point on the 6D specs that people who obsess about 'features' don't seems to understand, ( and I suppose that in itself is understandable on a gear based forum like CR), is that there are many who prefer reasonable simplicity and don't want the option of multiple card slots, 84 AF points, 102 pages of menus and so on. The fact that the 6D sells as it does is testament to this. There are aspects of the 6D that I don't like ( cheaper incarnation of the rear wheel for instance, my 6D hobbyhorse) but other don't seem that bothered, and that's the way it is.

In terms of reliability I have only ever had one slr / dslr fail on me in thirty years: the mirror fell out of a 5D. In the event I was able to get back up and running very quickly by glueing the mirror back in.

 

[Crosswind]

Instead of 5x and 20x, how about "50%" and "100%" views?

As with the EOS 6D, there is already the option to choose 100% zoom (see menu). I'd love a 20x zoom for astrophotography purposes, where 10x can be a bit difficult to decide if the stars are 100% in focus or not, esp. with fisheye or ultrawideangle optics. There are also other applications where I'd wish a 20x digital zoom, but it's nothing of a big deal. My other 3 points are much more important to me such as ISO 102400 LiveView, tilting screen & improved sensor performance.

 

[Bernard]

There's some remarkable drivel being turned out in this thread regarding the 6D. How many brides do you see soaked ? Apart from ones which fall into pools. Which is more unprofessional, turning up to shoot a wedding on your own with one 5DIII or turning up with two 6D s, an assistant and an umbrella ?

It's not about the bride getting soaked (although that happens), it's about where you need to be in order to get the shot. If it's raining hard when the bride's car pulls-up to the church, you still need to get that shot. You can try picking it off with a long lens from inside the church, but the angle is wrong, and the bride will wonder why you aren't there (she is, after all). You can have an assistant follow you around with an umbrella, but that's awkward, and your assistant should really be covering the groom and attendees inside.

What do you do? Miss the shot and hope nobody will notice, or get the shot and risk having to tell the wedding party to hold-off for an hour because your camera needs to dry-out?
You can go to your spare camera, but it's going to rain all day, and you need to get the shot when the bride and groom come out of the church. You don't want to have two inoperative cameras before you even get to formals and the reception.

The answer, of course, is that you use the proper tools, because you are a professional.
The real difference between professionals and amateurs is that professionals get the shot, no matter what. That's why you pay them money, even though uncle Larry will be there with the latest "hot" camera. There's always an uncle Larry, and he always has the latest gear, and he always interrupts you to ask incredibly basic questions, and he always tries to hijack the shots you've set-up (usually by standing between you and the bride).
Uncle Larry doesn't deliver the goods, but he spends more on equipment than you do. He read somewhere that he needs two card slots, so he sold all his Canon gear for pennies and moved to Nikon, but he's thinking of dumping Nikon for the new Sony, even though he had Sony before Canon. He's a good guy to know if you want to pick-up lightly used gear.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I would think a rain hood of some sort covering the camera/lens would be the simplest mitigating solution in case of a cloud burst.

But then I have a innate distrust for what the camera marketing department calls "weather sealing". ;D