More Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[NancyP]

I don't really use the AF heavily on the 6D. I use AF confirmation with manual focus lenses, and I use tripod and magnified live view for critical focus (wide open, or checking hyperfocal range). So it does just fine for the landscape and macro stuff. Now, if this 6D2 camera had the increased dynamic range, 24 to 28 MP, and same old AF, I would be first in line.

As for weddings, there are people out there shooting weddings with MF digital.

Water resistance of lenses - try a plastic bag, shower cap, purpose made permanent camera cover. Yeah, PITA.

 

[Sporgon]

I don't really use the AF heavily on the 6D. I use AF confirmation with manual focus lenses,

Just a thought: if you, myself and others are using old manual lenses with a 'dandelion' chip, what are the long term consequences for the gold plated contacts on the camera ? Decent modern manual EF mount lenses also have the gold contacts as per genuine EF lenses, but these dandelion chip contacts seem to be something like a cheap brass alloy, so I guess there could be an incompatibility in hardness.

 

[Takingshots]

I am also sitting on the fence right now debating if I should move to Nikon D750 for IQ, Focus points, flip screen, more cross types, better dynamic range etc .... This will cost me money some plus the hassle ....

 

[privatebydesign]

I am also sitting on the fence right now debating if I should move to Nikon D750 for IQ, Focus points, flip screen, more cross types, better dynamic range etc .... This will cost me money some plus the hassle ....

My only major consideration in contemplating that decision would be lenses. If Nikon have the lenses you need (and the flash system, and the service) then I wouldn't think about moving twice, just do it and be happy.

 

[Bernard]

The reason your 30 year old Zeiss seems impervious to moisture is not because of the engineering, any helicoid however finely machined lets in water unless both it and the tubes they are pushing have a seal, it is because it has no electronics for the moisture to damage.

As for your "sharper than any digital sensor I've attached it to" comment, that just illustrates complete lack of understanding of another fundamental photography concept, system resolution.

Wow! You seem to know everything, and yet...

So you agree that "weather sealing" isn't an issue with manual focus lenses, yet you disagree with the "reason" that I did not state (engineering?). Are you trying to keep this going for some reason?

I'm not sure if you seriously can't tell when a system is lens-limited or sensor-limited. I think you're just trying to be contrary but, if you're not, they look very different. When you are sensor-limited, things are sharp even at 1:1. When you are lens-limited, they are fuzzy at 1:1. I know the ultimate "sharpness" is a product of both factors (plus others like haze, camera shake, subject movement, subject contrast, etc). I guess I assumed that others know this, because I spent my youth looking at negatives through a grain magnifier.

If this helps you out, no need to thank me. If you were just being ornery, I'm sorry for you.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

So what was this thread originally about?

 

[nightscape123]

Personally I just hope the 6dII can autofocus at f/8 so I can use a 1.4x on the new 100-400. I wouldn't be against a few more AF points for tracking animals/birds though either.

 

[JohnBran]

So what was this thread originally about?

Wedding photographers, dual card slots and brides on the rainy day.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

So what was this thread originally about?

Wedding photographers, dual card slots and brides on the rainy day.

That's what I thought. Weird title for a thread though. ;D

 

[JohnBran]

So what was this thread originally about?

Wedding photographers, dual card slots and brides on the rainy day.

That's what I thought. Weird title for a thread though. ;D

LOL Yep

 

[Loswr]

So you agree that "weather sealing" isn't an issue with manual focus lenses, yet you disagree with the "reason" that I did not state (engineering?). Are you trying to keep this going for some reason?

Although PBD is correct about the reason 'sealing' isn't an issue for manual lenses, you're clearly missing the larger issue, both the gap that allows water ingress and the gap allowing your logic to leak out.

 

[Matthew Saville]

Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.

How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,

Ive got around 5500 shots taken with the 6D the only poor focus shots were user error not down to the camera. Bad workmen always blame their tools. The 5DMIII Ive taken thousands of shots with similar level of out of focus shots all user error.

Unless you forgot a zero, shooting five thousand images is not a lot when it comes to getting to know a camera. I've probably put 10K clicks on various 6D's, and I've never even owned one. I've probably put 50-100K clicks on other Canons throughout my career, again that I didn't own. I routinely put 50K clicks per 6-12 months on my Nikons.

The 6D's center AF point is indeed superb. I really love it for low-light candid work at weddings.

The problem is that people shoot very differently from each other. I hate to use the term "wedding photojournalist" because it usually describes folks who aren't very talented at either of the two, but suffice it to say that many folks out there REALLY need off-center, cross-type AF points that reach approximately to the 2/3 box area. The 6D is extremely limited in this way.

I'm sure the 6D AF system works fantastic for many folks, and most of my astro-landscape friends own 90% manual focus lenses anyways. But the fact remains- Canon engineers are certainly sitting on an affordable, killer AF system (the 7D mk2 costs $1800 and has a flagship AF system, even before the 1DX 2!!!) ...yet Canon has clearly decided to leave it out of the camera for up-sell purposes and nothing else.

 

[Sporgon]

So what was this thread originally about?

Wedding photographers, dual card slots and brides on the rainy day.

That's what I thought. Weird title for a thread though. ;D

LOL Yep

It seems that the general consensus on desirable features of a 6DII is that it is can track a bride running for the church door in pouring rain, and be suitably water proofed in order to achieve this without failing even when non weather sealed lenses are used. It should have dual card slots with a lockable door to stop wedding guests stealing them. And lastly the retail price should be raised to >$3500 so it can be professional.

 

[Eldar]

So what was this thread originally about?

Wedding photographers, dual card slots and brides on the rainy day.

That's what I thought. Weird title for a thread though. ;D

LOL Yep

It seems that the general consensus on desirable features of a 6DII is that it is can track a bride running for the church door in pouring rain, and be suitably water proofed in order to achieve this without failing even when non weather sealed lenses are used. It should have dual card slots with a lockable door to stop wedding guests stealing them. And lastly the retail price should be raised to >$3500 so it can be professional.

;D ;D ;D

 

[zlatko]

Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.

How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,

Ive got around 5500 shots taken with the 6D the only poor focus shots were user error not down to the camera. Bad workmen always blame their tools. The 5DMIII Ive taken thousands of shots with similar level of out of focus shots all user error.

Unless you forgot a zero, shooting five thousand images is not a lot when it comes to getting to know a camera. I've probably put 10K clicks on various 6D's, and I've never even owned one. I've probably put 50-100K clicks on other Canons throughout my career, again that I didn't own. I routinely put 50K clicks per 6-12 months on my Nikons.

The 6D's center AF point is indeed superb. I really love it for low-light candid work at weddings.

The problem is that people shoot very differently from each other. I hate to use the term "wedding photojournalist" because it usually describes folks who aren't very talented at either of the two, but suffice it to say that many folks out there REALLY need off-center, cross-type AF points that reach approximately to the 2/3 box area. The 6D is extremely limited in this way.

I'm sure the 6D AF system works fantastic for many folks, and most of my astro-landscape friends own 90% manual focus lenses anyways. But the fact remains- Canon engineers are certainly sitting on an affordable, killer AF system (the 7D mk2 costs $1800 and has a flagship AF system, even before the 1DX 2!!!) ...yet Canon has clearly decided to leave it out of the camera for up-sell purposes and nothing else.

It's not unreasonable to want great off-center AF. If you REALLY need it, Canon offers it three ways: 1DX, 5D3, 7D2.

But is it wrong for Canon to not offer that in the 6D? I don't think so. This is the bargain FF camera in the product line. Something has to make it the bargain, otherwise there's no reason for it to exist.

What does a killer AF system cost? I don't know. But definitely more than a non-killer AF system. The 7D2 is currently $1700, while the 6D is currently $1400. So that's a $300 difference. And the 6D has a more expensive twice-as-big sensor. So figure the cost of a killer AF system is at least $300. That's $300 too much for all of the 6D buyers who only need the 6D's AF system.

Not every product is going to satisfy every buyer. And even a diverse product line is going to have gaps precisely where someone thinks a product should exist.

 

[Loswr]

But is it wrong for Canon to not offer that in the 6D? I don't think so. This is the bargain FF camera in the product line. Something has to make it the bargain, otherwise there's no reason for it to exist.

C'mon, dude...why are you making excuses for Canon. All they have to do is buy FF Exmor sensors from Sony, put them in the 1D X and 5DIII bodies, and sell them for $499 and $299, respectively. Simple!

Then everyone would be happy. At least for the 6 months until Canon shut down their imaging division for catastrophic losses.

 

[NancyP]

Sporgon, my legacy manual focus lenses use "Dandelion"-less adapters (why bother, if I am using at f/8 or focusing via live view?) and the current 14mm Samyang manual focus lens doesn't have a "Dandelion" chip either. The modern manual focus Voigtlander 125 and the Zeiss 21 ZE have standard contacts no different from Canon-brand lens contacts.

I do use the Eg-S screen, which does well enough for focusing the old-fashioned way and then stopping down a tad.

 

[K]

But is it wrong for Canon to not offer that in the 6D? I don't think so. This is the bargain FF camera in the product line. Something has to make it the bargain, otherwise there's no reason for it to exist.

What does a killer AF system cost? I don't know. But definitely more than a non-killer AF system. The 7D2 is currently $1700, while the 6D is currently $1400. So that's a $300 difference. And the 6D has a more expensive twice-as-big sensor. So figure the cost of a killer AF system is at least $300. That's $300 too much for all of the 6D buyers who only need the 6D's AF system.

Not every product is going to satisfy every buyer. And even a diverse product line is going to have gaps precisely where someone thinks a product should exist.

All this talk about which features costs what is irrelevant. Maybe it does cost Canon a lot more? That's Canon's problem. Not the consumers. As a consumer, I know that the Nikon D610 has a FF sensor. It also has a much better AF system. It has two slots. It is about same price as 6D.

Canon has no excuse.

 

[Orangutan]

All this talk about which features costs what is irrelevant. Maybe it does cost Canon a lot more? That's Canon's problem. Not the consumers. As a consumer, I know that the Nikon D610 has a FF sensor. It also has a much better AF system. It has two slots. It is about same price as 6D.

Canon has no excuse.

All of this explains why you believe Canon should be able to provide what you want at the price you want. It does not address the (entirely distinct) question of why Canon would choose to do so. If the 6D sells and makes a profit with the current configuration and cost, why would they do anything else?

As many of us have said before, we would like to have the same things you would: lots of features for a low price. We want more DR at all ISOs, we want less noise, we want better, better, better. However, we don't delude ourselves that our interests align with Canon's. Furthermore, your criticism of Canon's value is a still greater criticism of the competition: they ought to be able to use their better value to capture market share. If they haven't then they are deficient as businesses.

Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. are not in this business for love, but rather for money, just like every other corporation.

It's the most basic of economics: they offer products and set the price, and you decide whether to buy. That's pretty much the whole story. Or, as father Guido Sarducci taught us, it's all supply and demand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO8x8eoU3L4

 

[K]

All this talk about which features costs what is irrelevant. Maybe it does cost Canon a lot more? That's Canon's problem. Not the consumers. As a consumer, I know that the Nikon D610 has a FF sensor. It also has a much better AF system. It has two slots. It is about same price as 6D.

Canon has no excuse.

All of this explains why you believe Canon should be able to provide what you want at the price you want. It does not address the (entirely distinct) question of why Canon would choose to do so. If the 6D sells and makes a profit with the current configuration and cost, why would they do anything else?

The profitability of the 6D is somewhat irrelevant also as to whether or not it offers a good value by Canon.


Because of lenses and lens mount compatibility, there is a high degree of "protectionist" type economics at play here. That is, Canon can get away with lower value products because people are committed to a system. They aren't "forced" to buy anything - but if they want a certain type of camera - their choice is severely limited. They can't just jump ship to the competition so easily. So, in that regard, a LOT of photographers just suck it up and deal with it. Canon loves that. They don't have to be as competitive as they ought to be. The 6D is for people who already own Canon lenses and are in the Canon system. Because those who aren't committed aren't buying the 6D, they are going Nikon.

If Canon and Nikon lenses were completely and totally interchangeable - do you think the 6D would be profitable? I think it would get squashed by the D610 or D750.


However, for those people who do make a leap into FF early on - that is, they haven't invested hardly anything in lenses or camera gear - I see these people going to Nikon in droves. This is precisely because of the features the D610 and D750 offer at the price point they offer them. Nikon has superior value for entry level FF.

But as you all say - Canon makes a boat load of money off the 6D and doesn't care. They ought to, because they could make even more with a better value entry level FF camera. First, by attracting more Canon system owners to buy this body, and by attracting those non-committed who are making the jump to FF early on.


There are two big features that could add HUGE value and bring Canon in line with what the competition is offering at a lower price point -

1. dual card slot
2. slightly better AF


But anyway - this isn't about the 6D now is it?


This is about the 6D Mark II

A camera who is rumored to be released in 2016 that will sell for around $2,100 and have 1 lousy SD card slot. Unacceptable.


I have no doubt in my mind that Canon will not put dual card slots in this camera, even if it aggravates many users. Canon has no fear in limiting and crippling camera features and is completely committed to the idea of trying to up-sell their many loyal users to the 5D line by very strategically limiting a simple, inexpensive feature they need. They did it last time with the AF system, offering a 2004 era AF system in a $2,200 camera in 2013. Only difference? -3EV ...but somehow that saves the day :