More features and specifications for the Canon EOS R3 have emerged

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,517
5,771
Well technically 8K produces overrsampled 4K ala R5. Canon could be holding off any mention of 8K to announce it at the last minute to ensure the web doesn't go into meltdown over heat issues. Look if this shot 8K and overheated then Canon needs new video engineers. The R5 could have been dramatically improved with just copper heatsinks rather than cheap thermal pads.

Also I would presume the R1 if it's global shutter to be the lower res sensor, it would be a huge leap to see >> 20MP with global shutter on FF IMO. Stacked sensor already exists at 50MP. If the R3 is only around 20MP that would be bitterly disappointing and rule Canon out for me for good, or until R5 II with stacked sensor came along and I won't wait that long. Bare minimum res I'd consider for a $6K camera would be 36MP, it needs to be able to do it all, ala R5 and A1.
20mp is also oversampled 4K, it’s 5.5K.

Prepare to move on, there is no way the R3 is going “to do it all”.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,517
5,771
Could you share the link to the video where the above image came from? I can find no other images of the side of the camera? It's now released but the image shows the flap over the RJ45 network plug confirming the LAN light showing on the front.

4:15
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tangent

Atlasman

EOS R5
CR Pro
May 14, 2020
86
95
But it might fly in the face of users. I have no particular need or desire for high MP in an R3, if I am at an event and shoot 3,500 images per day per body and the output is very rarely big prints, I simply don't need 30 or 40 or more MP.
And the R3 could meet your requirements with a downsampled 24mp image. But your are only a slice of the market. In todays shrinking market, the camera has to appeal to a much broader market.

How would you feel about a downsampled 24mp image that would deliver Improved low-noise and greater image clarity—would that satisfy you?
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,517
5,771
And the R3 could meet your requirements with a downsampled 24mp image. But your are only a slice of the market. In todays shrinking market, the camera has to appeal to a much broader market.

How would you feel about a downsampled 24mp image that would deliver Improved low-noise and greater image clarity—would that satisfy you?
It doesn’t matter what I want, Canon are going to market what they think they can sell. For the record I will buy an R3 if it is 20mp or 45mp, I have uses for both. But it is supposed to fit in the range between the R5 and the 1DX III so I wouldn’t be surprised if the resolution was closer to 20 than 45 because looking at the physicality of it and the few specs we know so far it seems closer to the 1DX III.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael Clark

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
988
829
www.flickr.com
Well technically 8K produces overrsampled 4K ala R5. Canon could be holding off any mention of 8K to announce it at the last minute to ensure the web doesn't go into meltdown over heat issues. Look if this shot 8K and overheated then Canon needs new video engineers. The R5 could have been dramatically improved with just copper heatsinks rather than cheap thermal pads.
Well, we know that isn't true. There was a very interesting video showing a replacement copper heatsink to bring the heat to the back panel and then external cooling for unlimited 8k raw but there were a few issues that Canon could not release such an option:
- The back panel temperature showed that it would give low temperature burns ie couldn't be released
- It would be worse if the touchscreen was turned in (either way) ie the screen would probably be damaged and the internal temperature would have increased further as the heat had no where to go

The A1 has a couple of differences... They aren't using CFe type B card/slots which were shown to be heat generators. They have preferred to downsample etc using the processor rather than record raw which would have meant CFe type B requirements. The bit rate is dramatically smaller than the R5's firehose giving much less heat! They are probably also running their internal temperatures higher than what Canon engineering practices would allow. We are yet to see if this means a lower life expectancy for the body.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EOS 4 Life

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
988
829
www.flickr.com
H mode, MS or EFCS : 14bit depth
H+ mode, MS or EFCS : 13bit depth -- makes sense, to shoot faster need faster sensor readout, so drop 1 bit of resolution and tradeoff with a slightly lower SNR
ES : 12bit depth -- same as above, need to read faster
As an aside .. I see posters here asking for ES options for 10, 20, 30 fps .. but the readout still has to be done in the same amount of time to prevent rolling shutter effects, so ES will stay at 12bit ... I think.

I can't wrap my head around the power requirements between these modes though. if it was the electronics pathway from sensor to card that was power hungry, ES should have also degraded at lower than 50% batt levels, but it doesn't. I mean I get performance degradation at low batt levels, but 50% ;)
The mechanical shutter speed would be dependent to the voltage output from the battery. I can find voltage curves online for LP-E6 and they all show voltage decreases over the remaining capacity. Ideal curves would be flat from 90-10% but in real life it is more variable and depends on current draw as well. Even with EFCS, the shutter still needs to move fast for the rear curtain.

Note that 12fps from LP-E6 is pretty remarkable. The 7Dii was ~10fps but not sure if it decreased when battery levels were lower and this was with a smaller curtain/sensor size. The 1D series mechanical shutters were of course faster (up to 16fps) but had a higher voltage from the LP-E19 battery

Removing the mechanical shutter would be an amazing "just one more thing" moment for the R3.
 

takesome1

EOS 5D Mark IV
Aug 23, 2013
1,549
205
100
None your business Alaska
It doesn’t matter what I want, Canon are going to market what they think they can sell. For the record I will buy an R3 if it is 20mp or 45mp, I have uses for both. But it is supposed to fit in the range between the R5 and the 1DX III so I wouldn’t be surprised if the resolution was closer to 20 than 45 because looking at the physicality of it and the few specs we know so far it seems closer to the 1DX III.
It seems to me over the years Canon has put the highest mp sensor in the 1D bodies that it can and still get the processing speed it needs for the highest fps.
I believe that the processing speed of the camera will determine how many mp Canon goes with.
If Canon isn't using the next generation of processors most likely it will be close to the 1DX III, especially if they are planning on 30 fps.
I think you are right that it does seem closer to the 1DX III.
 

sandhar

Birds, Places, Humans, Landscapes
Jun 2, 2021
10
5
sandharphotography.com
It doesn’t matter what I want, Canon are going to market what they think they can sell. For the record I will buy an R3 if it is 20mp or 45mp, I have uses for both. But it is supposed to fit in the range between the R5 and the 1DX III so I wouldn’t be surprised if the resolution was closer to 20 than 45 because looking at the physicality of it and the few specs we know so far it seems closer to the 1DX III.

if the eye tracking feature works fabulously out of the box (and yes I know this is a big if) I would be adding the R3 to my gear. I'm a bit slow when it comes to changing AF points, usually I am just changing where the camera is pointing (AF stays in the center), so eye tracking AF would be quite amazing for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: privatebydesign

sandhar

Birds, Places, Humans, Landscapes
Jun 2, 2021
10
5
sandharphotography.com
The mechanical shutter speed would be dependent to the voltage output from the battery. I can find voltage curves online for LP-E6 and they all show voltage decreases over the remaining capacity. Ideal curves would be flat from 90-10% but in real life it is more variable and depends on current draw as well. Even with EFCS, the shutter still needs to move fast for the rear curtain.

Note that 12fps from LP-E6 is pretty remarkable. The 7Dii was ~10fps but not sure if it decreased when battery levels were lower and this was with a smaller curtain/sensor size. The 1D series mechanical shutters were of course faster (up to 16fps) but had a higher voltage from the LP-E19 battery

Removing the mechanical shutter would be an amazing "just one more thing" moment for the R3.

no mechanical shutter on the R3 !? .. i didn't realize that was the case. are you sure ? it's still a rolling shutter, not a global shutter.
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
988
829
www.flickr.com
no mechanical shutter on the R3 !? .. i didn't realize that was the case. are you sure ? it's still a rolling shutter, not a global shutter.
There will always be a read speed from the sensor. A global shutter would effectively mean instantaneous readout speed but I am sure that there will be some practical limitation. Stacked/BSI sensor looks to be a game changer for Canon which could reduce the read speed to be an effective global shutter. I am not saying that this is the case with the R3 or that there is no mechanical shutter.

Canon has specified 2 key pieces of information: 30fps ES with full tracking and raw recording and flash sync with ES. Both of these would be needed to remove the mechanical shutter. As above comments, the stacked sensor would hopefully remove the R5's dynamic range issues when mechanical shutter is not used.

If the ES flash sync at 1/200s plus dynamic range is good then would there be any need for a mechanical shutter? No lifespan issues. Effectively still images = video @ 30fps. Silent shutter. The world changes :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: sandhar

exige24

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 7, 2018
77
113
United States
But it might fly in the face of users. I have no particular need or desire for high MP in an R3, if I am at an event and shoot 3,500 images per day per body and the output is very rarely big prints, I simply don't need 30 or 40 or more MP.
I see two rebuttals with this point of view as far as camera specs/development are concerned. First, a 50 mp image still works for someone who doesn't care past 20. A 20mp image will never work for someone who needs/wants 50mp. It's built for the lowest possible denominator. Not very good. A possible point might also be that it's great to want things, but some things are just not feasible. The A1 is the counter to that point.
 

R1-7D

EOS RP
Jun 25, 2012
769
119
Canada
I find this quite interesting from Canon:

"With the EOS R3, you will be able to shoot in high-quality 4K with Canon Log3 [AND] oversampled 4K, and RAW movie internal recording."


4K HQ is oversampled, so why are they saying 4K HQ and (ie: as well as) oversampled 4K?

The R5 has 4K HQ but the R6 does not; the R6 simply uses oversampled 4K.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: chasingrealness

exige24

EOS M6 Mark II
Jun 7, 2018
77
113
United States
I find this quite interesting from Canon:

"With the EOS R3, you will be able to shoot in high-quality 4K with Canon Log3 [AND] oversampled 4K, and RAW movie internal recording."

4K HQ is oversampled, so why are they saying 4K HQ and (ie: as well as) oversampled 4K?

The R5 has 4K HQ but the R6 does not; the R6 simply uses oversampled 4K.


That is interesting! 4k HQ in the R5 is down sampled 8k. If that's by definition. that's a pretty big doozy there! That might confirm both 8k and a 45mp sensor!!!
 

sandhar

Birds, Places, Humans, Landscapes
Jun 2, 2021
10
5
sandharphotography.com
There will always be a read speed from the sensor. A global shutter would effectively mean instantaneous readout speed but I am sure that there will be some practical limitation. Stacked/BSI sensor looks to be a game changer for Canon which could reduce the read speed to be an effective global shutter. I am not saying that this is the case with the R3 or that there is no mechanical shutter.

Canon has specified 2 key pieces of information: 30fps ES with full tracking and raw recording and flash sync with ES. Both of these would be needed to remove the mechanical shutter. As above comments, the stacked sensor would hopefully remove the R5's dynamic range issues when mechanical shutter is not used.

If the ES flash sync at 1/200s plus dynamic range is good then would there be any need for a mechanical shutter? No lifespan issues. Effectively still images = video @ 30fps. Silent shutter. The world changes :)
ok I think you have a point here :: at 30fps the readout is fast enough that a mechanical shutter is only needed for limited cases where movement across frame is fast. also - given that they have added sports cars as a AF subject should hint at fast readout speeds (else we get elliptical tires in ES and such). so the mechanical shutter may be present, but for most cases, the ES does the job w/ high DR.
interesting !
 
  • Like
Reactions: David - Sydney

masterpix

EOS RP
Jun 29, 2016
298
213
I'd wager 20MP. The fact that they're not trumpeting the resolution is pretty suggestive that it's not an exciting spec, so staying the same as the R6/1DXiii wouldn't surprise me in the least.
the 1Dx's sensors are in the range of 20MP, so it is only assumed that the R1 sensor will be in that range, maybe slight higher, 20-24MP. The R5 is about 45MP. So when they say that the R3 will be "the bridge between the RR5 and the R1 (not not 1Dx replacement), it probably means that the R3 sensor will be about 30-40MP (32.5MP?). Anyway, I would not consider the R6 as a reference for this discussion.
 

masterpix

EOS RP
Jun 29, 2016
298
213
'New' accessory shoe? Does anyone guess what that would be?
It looks like they will have a new terminal for all the wires, maybe one socket that will have a wire with several "ends" to connect to other devices. Those terminals (on the left side of the camera body) consume a lot of space and once you like to have USB,HDMI,LAN,external shooter,microphone,speaker... you just don't have enough space there anymore.
 

Czardoom

EOS RP
Jan 27, 2020
346
733
My speculation....

Canon is not stupid enough to put out a new camera with essentially the same specs as the R5, and then expect people to buy the roughly $2000 more expensive version. The R5 is meant for those wanting that "all-arounder" - the camera that does everything really well, but is not specialized. Their top of the line, integrated grip cameras are specialized cameras meant mainly for news and sports shooters. There is no reason to think that has changed. The input from that target market has clearly for many years now seems to be - keep the MPs low. Speed and convenience are far more important than high MPs which are not needed. Despite what so many gear-heads seem to think, keeping the MPs low is not being "5 years behind, or "inexcusable in 2021" or whatever similar comments are being used. Many pro photographers think 24 MP or similar is perfect or "the sweet spot" when it comes to MPs. Sony A9 II and the Nikon Z 6 II are 24 MPs and are new cameras and apparently not 5 years out of date.

What has changed, however, is that Sony, with their A1, has gone higher MPs with their flagship. Nikon's Z 9, their new flagship, is rumored to be high MPs as well. So, I think Canon has mapped out a strategy to continue to target their news and sports "series 1" users - with the R3. High speed, low MPs. And then with a "flagship" camera that is more in line with Sony and Nikon, with higher MPs, that being the upcoming R1.

Of course, I have no special insight and can be completely wrong, but I do think people in foruums almost always ignore the taget market for a product. And the target market seems to be sports shooters. So the camera will be geared for that market, not for those looking for a slightly better R5.