More features and specifications for the Canon EOS R3 have emerged

[john1970]

If the R3 is positioned between the R5 and 1Dx Mk3 I wonder if the price will be the median of 3900 and 6500 USD, which is 5200 USD. At 5200 USD I could see a 30 MP BSI camera with integrated grip selling very well for Canon.

 

[matthudson]

There have been only two Canon bodies with dual, identical card slots – the 1D X and 1D X III.

View attachment 198046

CF and SD is less of an issue than CFExpress to SD. My CF cards are 90MB/s and 160MB/s, while SD is sitting between 95 and 300. GFExpress? Even the cheap ones are at 800mb/s, and it's not that much more expensive to go to 1200 or even 1400.

It's a massive gulf in performance that's really going to show

 

[padam]

CF and SD is less of an issue than CFExpress to SD. My CF cards are 90MB/s and 160MB/s, while SD is sitting between 95 and 300. GFExpress? Even the cheap ones are at 800mb/s, and it's not that much more expensive to go to 1200 or even 1400.

It's a massive gulf in performance that's really going to show

Probably not a big problem with less megapixels unless you shoot RAW video or maybe 4k120p if the camera has it.
And since dual recording for video is not available, the SD card won't be a bottleneck, since it won't be utilised.

Even 20fps on the R5 already seems unnecessarily high for most use cases and the camera keeps up with it just fine (in cRAW as I don't see why uncompressed in necessary).

We can be pretty sure than Canon has thought this through, as there are no real buffer issues with any of their mirrorless cameras, so it won't happen with the most expensive one either.

 

[TiMLud]

Based on everything I'm reading People believe the R3 will be a low resolution camera. Low in the sense of 24 to 30 meg. In order for Canon to compete with Sony and kick their butt in the market place. Canon has to put a camera out that will rival what Sony is making.
I believe the R3 will be 50-60 meg camera and the R1 will top out at something crazy like 75 to 100 meg. Canon has the sensor tech. They have had the tech for some time now. I also believe the camera will ship in July if not sooner.

 

[DBounce]

Is this a “rumor”? It’s an official press release from Canon. The only real “leaks” from all of these camera sites seem to all come from the same source... Nokishita.

 

[matthudson]

Probably not a big problem with less megapixels unless you shoot RAW video or maybe 4k120p if the camera has it.
And since dual recording for video is not available, the SD card won't be a big bottleneck.

Even 20fps on the R5 already seems unnecessarily high for most use cases.

30fps at 18mp (1DXmk1, since I have that on hand to compare) will give you well over 600mb/s, Everyone would lose their shit if they threw out such a low res sensor, but even so that's a hell of a lot of data to try to clear.

It still raises questions about why the hell SD is even an option on a camera with this (apparent) performance. Why give the camera 30fps if you need to wait 3x longer for the buffer to get back to normal? Why have the SD if you're meant to go to 30fps?

It all seems to come back to one thing (which, arguably, is the same problem with the R5): Canon want something that looks amazing on paper, but need to cripple it to protect...I guess the R1? Whether it's 8K video on the R5, or 30fps on the R3, they need something impressive to point at that just can't work in the real world because they don't want it to

 

[takesome1]

Based on everything I'm reading People believe the R3 will be a low resolution camera. Low in the sense of 24 to 30 meg. In order for Canon to compete with Sony and kick their butt in the market place. Canon has to put a camera out that will rival what Sony is making.
I believe the R3 will be 50-60 meg camera and the R1 will top out at something crazy like 75 to 100 meg. Canon has the sensor tech. They have had the tech for some time now. I also believe the camera will ship in July if not sooner.

I understand that you believe the R3 will be 50-60 mp.
I believe there aliens watching us, even now the US military and even former president Obama is admitting there are UFO's that they are unable to explain their movement. Finally some rumors are confirmed.
Maybe we will both see an announcements soon confirming our "beliefs".

 

[ClickIt_AC]

Since day one of this announcement, I have been imagining and saying that the R3 is to the 1D(or R1) as the R6 is to the R5. Anything they do with the R3 is meant to compete with certain Sony bodies, cost more than the r5 but be better, but also leave room for the r1 to be the top-of-line flagship. This R3 sounds like a curious hybrid of R5 and 1D.

While I use that r3<r1=r6<r5 logic to predict a likely 20-24mp sensor, I also realize that the sensor is a new BSI stacked sensor. Because of that and my familiarity with BSI sensors, owning a Sony Rx1Rm2, I would predict that a BSI sensor of 46 to 56mp is possible, also giving 30fps RAW. One can also conclude that if a rumored R1 is being produced, and given a BSI sensor too, then it may well have a similar mp count and be a scorching 40 to 60fps. I guess that whatever this camera has, the speculated-on R1 will be a bit better, and vice-versa.

Be advised, this is just speculation, PURE speculation.

I am a street photographer who shoots commercial work from time to time, so this camera would fit me well, I think. The 5DSr I had was great for commercial, but terrible for street work or any shot with ISO over 200, or any shot with movement while shooting slower shutters than 1/500.

This is somewhere near the point I was trying to make... although not as eloquently

 

[padam]

30fps at 18mp (1DXmk1, since I have that on hand to compare) will give you well over 600mb/s, Everyone would lose their shit if they threw out such a low res sensor, but even so that's a hell of a lot of data to try to clear.

It still raises questions about why the hell SD is even an option on a camera with this (apparent) performance. Why give the camera 30fps if you need to wait 3x longer for the buffer to get back to normal? Why have the SD if you're meant to go to 30fps?

It all seems to come back to one thing (which, arguably, is the same problem with the R5): Canon want something that looks amazing on paper, but need to cripple it to protect...I guess the R1? Whether it's 8K video on the R5, or 30fps on the R3, they need something impressive to point at that just can't work in the real world because they don't want it to

The Sony A1 with 50 megapixels has a buffer size of 155 compressed RAW images.

Assuming the R3 has a similarly sized buffer for much less megapixels with cRAW (which may be the only raw option for 30fps anyway), it should last a very long time. I don't hear sports photographers clicking endlessly when they don't need to, they know when to fire and when to pause.

There are obviously thermal constrains using two CFExpress cards producing plenty of heat in a smaller body compared to a 1DX.
Since the body is formed by the R5, I don't think it is just a question of take one out and put in another.
It would probably need the bigger 1DX chassis with the cards mounted lengthways.

So yes it is crippled somewhat, but there are reasons for it (to make it more reliable as they claim) and it will be fully usable in the real world.

And yes, this complaint is based on a camera that will be positioned under the 1DX. So why is that surprising in the first place...

 

[TravelerNick]

It is more that I can readily find a PC with an SD slot if I forget or have a problem with my external CF Express drive

That to but missing a shot is worse than having to wait with the shot in hand.

 

[Ozarker]

People already screaming "crippled" and don't even have the sensor resolution. Knock that stupidity off.

Raw to the big card, jpeg to the little card. Cards are very reliable these days. Are people sending raw files from the sidelines to the AP, or SI? I might be wrong, but somehow think the vast majority of those bursts are sent as jpegs.

Yeah, it would be nice if the cards match, but this probably isn't as big a deal as all the hand wringing suggests.

 

[matthudson]

The Sony A1 with 50 megapixels has a buffer size of 155 compressed RAW images.

Assuming the R3 has a similarly sized buffer for much less megapixels with cRAW (which may be the only raw option for 30fps anyway), it should last a very long time. I don't hear sports photographers clicking endlessly when they don't need to, they know when to fire and when to pause.

There are obviously thermal constrains using two CFExpress cards producing plenty of heat in a smaller body compared to a 1DX.
Since the body is formed by the R5, I don't think it is just a question of take one out and put in another.
It would probably need the bigger 1DX chassis with the cards mounted lengthways.

So yes it is crippled somewhat, but there are reasons for it (to make it more reliable as they claim) and it will be fully usable in the real world.

And yes, this complaint is based on a camera that will be positioned under the 1DX. So why is that surprising in the first place...

I'm glad you mentioned the A1; it has dual Cfexpress slots in a much smaller body. I'd be interested in finding out why Canon are struggling to fit more than one. Guess Sony made some better decisions in the design process

The R3 body is a 1dx sized body; you can't look at that integrated grip and think it isn't. If it's not in that market segment, why all the comparisons in Canon's media releases? Why is it built off the 1DX form factor and batteries? Why does it have the 1DX weathersealing? This clearly isn't meant to be aimed at the 5d4 or 7dii users, otherwise they'd stick with the same base and same batteries (like the R6/r5)

But, for arguments sake, let's go with that buffer size (150). Let's also grab...10mb per raw file? That seems a bit low, but it'll at least put a floor on it.

So with the perfect SD, that's 5s to clear the buffer. With the poor man's CFE, a touch over 2s. It's a pretty big slowdown proportionally speaking, but there's probably a better comparison

With a slow CFE, you could get up to 25mb raw files at 30fps, and never need to worry if the buffer is 5 or 500 images. For SD, you'd better hope those raw files are very small (10mb), or the buffer suddenly becomes a problem. Is Canon good enough to give you raws that small? I dunno

 

[matthudson]

People already screaming "crippled" and don't even have the sensor resolution. Knock that stupidity off.

It's a pretty basic step of logic. The camera clearly needs a cfexpress card; if it doesn't, why does it have the slot? They're less common, and apparently cause overheating. If you didn't need that performance, you'd never even consider putting one in

So if it's needed, then there's going to be cases where you have to write data at 800mb/s+. So, that SD card is going to be an absolute boat anchor if the camera does either simultaneous writeback, or swaps halfway through a shoot

Given that this isn't going to be a cheap camera, and that CFE and SD are about the same price, then why wouldn't you give it to CFE slots? It's a thing in the 1dxiii and the Sony A1, so don't tell me it's impossible.

 

[padam]

I'm glad you mentioned the A1; it has dual Cfexpress slots in a much smaller body. I'd be interested in finding out why Canon are struggling to fit more than one. Guess Sony made some better decisions in the design process

The R3 body is a 1dx sized body; you can't look at that integrated grip and think it isn't. If it's not in that market segment, why all the comparisons in Canon's media releases? Why is it built off the 1DX form factor and batteries? Why does it have the 1DX weathersealing? This clearly isn't meant to be aimed at the 5d4 or 7dii users, otherwise they'd stick with the same base and same batteries (like the R6/r5)

But, for arguments sake, let's go with that buffer size (150). Let's also grab...10mb per raw file? That seems a bit low, but it'll at least put a floor on it.

So with the perfect SD, that's 5s to clear the buffer. With the poor man's CFE, a touch over 2s. It's a pretty big slowdown proportionally speaking, but there's probably a better comparisonS

With a slow CFE, you could get up to 25mb raw files at 30fps, and never need to worry if the buffer is 5 or 500 images. For SD, you'd better hope those raw files are very small (10mb), or the buffer suddenly becomes a problem. Is Canon good enough to give you raws that small? I dunno

The R6 buffer writing to two SD cards with 20fps is 165 images or 8.4 seconds. People already seem to be quite happy with it shooting sports.

This R3 is definitely catered more towards that, so it will have a much beefier buffer (so the buffer size will be enough for well over 10 seconds even at the maximum frame rate), so I am struggling to find a use case where it will be outrun - assuming the user knows what he is doing. In most cases 30fps is simply not necessary and depending on the shutter speed, etc. it may not even be available and of course shooting RAW to both cards is not the one and only feasible way.

The 1DX II had a normal CF card slot, it didn't have the buffer capacity of these modern cameras, and I didn't hear anyone not saying it was amazing.

And don't throw in CFExpress Type A like it does not have its own drawbacks. It is a slower card, and the camera does not shoot any type of RAW video internally.
So each to his own, there is no perfect camera.

Right now people are complaining about something that hasn't even been tested at all.

It was the exact same thing with the overheating which I wouldn't be surprised to still see that in the R3 assuming it shoots full sensor 60p RAW video with autofocus (unlike the 1DX III where they disabled it).
Yes, it is an issue for some people, but most people shooting slow motion will not use it for 10 minutes straight, only for short bursts.

And the fix for fully unlocking these sensors for video is simply a camera with active cooling, which again is something that a lot of people don't need at all.

 

[Ozarker]

It's a pretty basic step of logic. The camera clearly needs a cfexpress card; if it doesn't, why does it have the slot? They're less common, and apparently cause overheating. If you didn't need that performance, you'd never even consider putting one in

So if it's needed, then there's going to be cases where you have to write data at 800mb/s+. So, that SD card is going to be an absolute boat anchor if the camera does either simultaneous writeback, or swaps halfway through a shoot

Given that this isn't going to be a cheap camera, and that CFE and SD are about the same price, then why wouldn't you give it to CFE slots? It's a thing in the 1dxiii and the Sony A1, so don't tell me it's impossible.

Never said impossible, just not a big deal. So what is your use that demands 30fps raw to two different cards at the same time? Or are you just frustrated that you might have to take 3 seconds to swap out a full card for an empty? Yeah, world shattering problem requiring multiple pages in the thread to bitch and moan.

Buy the Sony.

 

[canonmike]

Low resolution is why the 1D X Mark III is so inexpensively priced. Oh, wait. There is more to a sensor than MP. There are things like speed and low-light performance. My R3 guess is around 30MP.

My guess is, that if your 30MP guess is correct, there will be a lot of happy R3 buyers hitting that pre-order button, doubly so, if it should be priced around $5.5K rather than $6K.

 

[SteveC]

WHAT IS CANON DOING?? Why releasing a camera that cannot meet the specs of the R5 that is on the market for a year already? Basically what they have built is an R6 with a battery grip and some fancy knobs. I don’t get it. Really... Canon, you’ve lost me here....

Judging from your posts Canon never had you.

 

[SteveC]

Exactly. Well, we know of one guy who does. Heck, I don't think I've ever put my keys in my back pocket. I wouldn't put any card in any pocket with keys.

This is what God made those little plastic boxes for SD cards, for.

 

[canonmike]

If the R3 is positioned between the R5 and 1Dx Mk3 I wonder if the price will be the median of 3900 and 6500 USD, which is 5200 USD. At 5200 USD I could see a 30 MP BSI camera with integrated grip selling very well for Canon.

If the R3 were to come in at $5200.00 and have 30MP and you plan on buying it, I would suggest that one be first in line on the pre-order button, otherwise forget about getting one for quite awhile.

 

[reef58]

32 too low, must be min 50+

50 too low must be 60+