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I agree with a few others....
1. shooting quick change of direction sports at f2 is tough, try shooting at 2.8...that will help your focus...I tried the 135 at f2 and had too many oof shots for my liking, though I do understand the appeal of a shot captured perfectly at f2.
2. You are definitely shooting at too low iso...and don't ever use auto iso for indoor sports...indoors at 1/500 even at f2 should be a minimum of 1000 iso, and more likely 1600 or 3200 iso... The 5d3 in Jpeg mode with high iso noise reduction turned on should give you pretty clean shots up to 3200....but as others have said, next time play around with the iso settings to get the correct exposure..
3. Stick with center weighted average metering for basketball.
4. Stick with servo af case #1, it works very well.
5. Use center focus point with either 4 or 8 surround points...both work well.
1. shooting quick change of direction sports at f2 is tough, try shooting at 2.8...that will help your focus...I tried the 135 at f2 and had too many oof shots for my liking, though I do understand the appeal of a shot captured perfectly at f2.
2. You are definitely shooting at too low iso...and don't ever use auto iso for indoor sports...indoors at 1/500 even at f2 should be a minimum of 1000 iso, and more likely 1600 or 3200 iso... The 5d3 in Jpeg mode with high iso noise reduction turned on should give you pretty clean shots up to 3200....but as others have said, next time play around with the iso settings to get the correct exposure..
3. Stick with center weighted average metering for basketball.
4. Stick with servo af case #1, it works very well.
5. Use center focus point with either 4 or 8 surround points...both work well.
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plam_1980
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Wow, guys, thank you for the valuable advices and the support
I knew about vignetting, but did not think it was that pronounced. But it is the general darkness and muddyness that worried me, not just the vignetting
Thank you very much for this link, that information is inaluable, I already have loaded the profile and the few test shots I did at home show good improvement.
My 550D shot were indeed at much higher ISO (1600-3200) but they were again in Auto ISO, I believed that the 5D Mark III will select the appropriate one too. I have not set maximum Auto ISO, I will check later if it was set to 800 out of the box
AS for the metering - I tried all
But I believe the best results came out from Center-weighted average, as Northstar has suggested.
Здрасти, Течо
Наистина е доста тъмна залата. Трябва да видиш новата зала Арена Армеец, доста е добра за тукашните стандарти Ти къде си играл докато беше тук
Again, thank you so much everyone, I will experiment and will let you know what the results are
RLPhoto said:
I knew about vignetting, but did not think it was that pronounced. But it is the general darkness and muddyness that worried me, not just the vignetting
Drizzt321 said:
Thank you very much for this link, that information is inaluable, I already have loaded the profile and the few test shots I did at home show good improvement.
My 550D shot were indeed at much higher ISO (1600-3200) but they were again in Auto ISO, I believed that the 5D Mark III will select the appropriate one too. I have not set maximum Auto ISO, I will check later if it was set to 800 out of the box
AS for the metering - I tried all
But I believe the best results came out from Center-weighted average, as Northstar has suggested.thanks awinphoto, this really makes sense! I will try TV mode and also catchin less floor the next time. Now that I look at the photos, the ones with more floor are worse! and will also take into consideration the shutterspeed for the inconsistent lighting, as some have suggestedawinphoto said:
te4o said:
Здрасти, Течо
Наистина е доста тъмна залата. Трябва да видиш новата зала Арена Армеец, доста е добра за тукашните стандарти
Ти къде си играл докато беше тукAgain, thank you so much everyone, I will experiment and will let you know what the results are
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Deva said:
I doubt that they took that many images.
If you take a card from Camera A, that had 10,000 total images taken, and put it into Camera B that has only 10 images, the next file number on Camera B, the "10 image camera", will be 10,001.
If you want a lower image number, just reset the internal counter to "0". On the menu, under Image Numbering, just select "Manual Reset", then leave it at "Continuous" like it was. It will start over again with 00001.
That will not affect tools like eoscount.com that can tell how many total images the camera has taken. Or if you put all of your images in Lightroom, you can just see how many total images you have there.
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I dial in +2/3 stops on ALL Of my cameras, and leave it there 95% of the time.
That is true on my Canon T4i, 5DIII, 1DX, and on the Nikon D3200 and Sony NEX 5n that I have owned this year.
Same on them all to push the histogram to the right. I shoot RAW+JPEG anyway and adjust in post, but you want to make use of the right hand of the histogram , as there is more total "data" for you to work with in post.
Someone else mentioned that in passing as "Shoot to the Right."
There is also a Canon 44 page White Paper on the 1DX auto focus that also applies to the 5DIII that you should read. It will help you understand all of the incredible tools you have for shooting sports with focus tracking, etc.
Have fun! Great camera, lots of great tools, but it requires a bit of us on the back end. 8)
That is true on my Canon T4i, 5DIII, 1DX, and on the Nikon D3200 and Sony NEX 5n that I have owned this year.
Same on them all to push the histogram to the right. I shoot RAW+JPEG anyway and adjust in post, but you want to make use of the right hand of the histogram , as there is more total "data" for you to work with in post.
Someone else mentioned that in passing as "Shoot to the Right."
There is also a Canon 44 page White Paper on the 1DX auto focus that also applies to the 5DIII that you should read. It will help you understand all of the incredible tools you have for shooting sports with focus tracking, etc.
Have fun! Great camera, lots of great tools, but it requires a bit of us on the back end. 8)
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TrumpetPower! said:
+1
This is a good description of the cause of your problem. It happens frequently to users who try to use high shutter speeds and flickering lights.
The lights are flickering at 120 hertz, so use a shutter speed slower than 120 sec, or use a flash in the rafters.
You can also just take a lot of of shots and a few will be ok.
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Mt. Spokane, it's 60Hz. (That's the frequency.) 120 is the voltage. So the shutter must stay below 1/60. Impossible to do so the effect must be dealt with in post.
Here's a great write up on the issue...
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=20873
Here's a great write up on the issue...
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=20873
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RustyTheGeek said:
While the power line frequency in the US is 60 Hz, the blink rate IS 120 Hz.
The definition of one cycle is when the voltage starts from zero, goes to a peak, then back through zero to a peak in the opposite direction and then back to zero. Thus the light starts at off, goes to a maximum, goes off again, then goes to another maximum (then back to off, but that last off is the start of the next cycle). Hence the light blinks twice per cycle.
Incandescent lamps don't blink badly because the filament doesn't have time to cool sufficiently between peaks, while fluorescents and discharge lamps do have time to cut off.
LED's (the future) may or may not blink depending on the power supply they have. LED's run on DC (which shouldn't blink), but some of the power supplies are simply AC rectified (all the humps are on one side of zero), which on average looks like DC, but which to a fast acting LED is (again) 120 peaks per second.
At 1/60 shutter speed you should get you a full exposure. 1/125 could get you 1/2 of what you want, if the capture takes place around the zero crossing.
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TAF said:
You also have to watch out for LED Christmas lights, they usually only have a half wave rectifier, so you only have 60 peaks per second, and half of each cycle is at zero.
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I had 5d2 and have 5d3 and those cameras underexpose permanently by ca. 1/2 EV, 2/3EV. I sent the 5d2 to the service and they stated that everything was ok, despite the fact I tested the cameras with wall against Sekonic external meter and a Nikon body.
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You probably know this, but metering is only on the center point and it's not tied to the selected focus point. Just mentioning it because looking at some of those images when I look at the dead center of each image I can sort of see how the camera might have come up with those exposures. Also after using a 550D maybe you are getting away with faster shutter speeds causing the 120Hz flicker metering problem a few others mentioned.
I don't do a lot of that style of photography but in my limited experience sometimes you're best to go for full manual. The real lighting probably won't change a lot so try a bit of 'chimping' on initial shots and dial in the ISO. While at high shutter speeds it won't solve the flicker entirely I think it should improve things.
I don't do a lot of that style of photography but in my limited experience sometimes you're best to go for full manual. The real lighting probably won't change a lot so try a bit of 'chimping' on initial shots and dial in the ISO. While at high shutter speeds it won't solve the flicker entirely I think it should improve things.
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bycostello said:
He says he was using Auto ISO, so the camera still meters and adjusts the ISO based on the calculated exposure.
I think he's dealing with a highly reflective floor and less reflective players. The camera is metering off light reflected from the floor.
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bvukich said:
Thank you for that warning, I didn't know that (although I suppose I am not surprised).
I run a number of LED lights around the house, and use 'wallwart' power supplies to supply them. I make certain that the supplies are regulated DC to both protect the LED's (which still aren't cheap), and to avoid all these issues.
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There's some bad advice being given here.
If you use manual exposure [begin edit] in situations like this[end edit], make sure auto ISO is turned off. When you are shooting from slightly above the court, as you are, the floor (and advertising signs) will reflect light into your camera's light meter. When your lens is pointed towards the floor, your light meter will read at least two stops brighter than the subjects actually are. If there is some dark in the background to make up for the floor, the meter reading won't be quite as bad. When auto ISO is turned on, your camera changes the ISO to obtain what it thinks is proper exposure, so all your work with shutter speed and aperture is undone.
Exposure compensation doesn't help a lot either, because as you are tracking your subject, the background changes with every shot, but your exposure actually should change only slightly, depending on whether they are in mid-court or near the basket facing towards the darker perimeter of the stadium. But the exposure definitely shouldn't change based on the background, but on the subject.
My manual exposure settings for an average Division I gym using the 135mm f/2 are about like this:
Fixed ISO 2,000
f/2.2
1/1000th
Picture Style Contrast set to very low (next to the leftmost setting)
If possible, use a manual white balance reading taken from a gray card positioned vertically slightly within the 3 point line and facing the basket. You need to catch some reflection from the floor as well as direct illumination from the lights. Ideally, the card should represent the light reflected from a player's face and eyes as they are moving the ball towards the basket or shooting. If the lights are flickering, then you need to use a time value under 1/15th of a second to get a perfect white balance reading that avoids the red/brown or other color shifts. But when I am actually shooting the game, I do not force myself to use a slow shutter speed. Go ahead and shoot fast enough to stop action, which at the very minimum is 1/500th of a second. I virtually always keep it at 1/800th or higher. Even if 2/3rds of your photos have a terrible color cast, the the other 1/3rd of them will be fine, and it is better for 1/3rd of them to be sharp and properly colored than for none of them to be sharp because of motion blur.
For darker gyms, light quickly goes down by a factor of five. That's when I would go down to 1/500th and ISO 5,000 if there is also color casting happening, or just go up to ISO 10,000 if there's not.
A few gyms are actually one stop brighter than the case mentioned above, and so I would use that as an opportunity to bump aperture, ISO, and shutter speed each by a notch to f/2.5, 1600, and 1/1250th.
** One other thing, when I'm taking pictures of coaches, players standing there, and whatever isn't action, I have a separate body with either a 300mm or 70-200 lens on it, and in that case, I definitely will use a slower shutter speed, like 1/200th, if there is any chance of color casting, to make sure that my photos don't have that color problem. But for action, the weird colors on some shots are just something to live with, because slowing down the shutter speed would only blur their faces too much. **
If you use manual exposure [begin edit] in situations like this[end edit], make sure auto ISO is turned off. When you are shooting from slightly above the court, as you are, the floor (and advertising signs) will reflect light into your camera's light meter. When your lens is pointed towards the floor, your light meter will read at least two stops brighter than the subjects actually are. If there is some dark in the background to make up for the floor, the meter reading won't be quite as bad. When auto ISO is turned on, your camera changes the ISO to obtain what it thinks is proper exposure, so all your work with shutter speed and aperture is undone.
Exposure compensation doesn't help a lot either, because as you are tracking your subject, the background changes with every shot, but your exposure actually should change only slightly, depending on whether they are in mid-court or near the basket facing towards the darker perimeter of the stadium. But the exposure definitely shouldn't change based on the background, but on the subject.
My manual exposure settings for an average Division I gym using the 135mm f/2 are about like this:
Fixed ISO 2,000
f/2.2
1/1000th
Picture Style Contrast set to very low (next to the leftmost setting)
If possible, use a manual white balance reading taken from a gray card positioned vertically slightly within the 3 point line and facing the basket. You need to catch some reflection from the floor as well as direct illumination from the lights. Ideally, the card should represent the light reflected from a player's face and eyes as they are moving the ball towards the basket or shooting. If the lights are flickering, then you need to use a time value under 1/15th of a second to get a perfect white balance reading that avoids the red/brown or other color shifts. But when I am actually shooting the game, I do not force myself to use a slow shutter speed. Go ahead and shoot fast enough to stop action, which at the very minimum is 1/500th of a second. I virtually always keep it at 1/800th or higher. Even if 2/3rds of your photos have a terrible color cast, the the other 1/3rd of them will be fine, and it is better for 1/3rd of them to be sharp and properly colored than for none of them to be sharp because of motion blur.
For darker gyms, light quickly goes down by a factor of five. That's when I would go down to 1/500th and ISO 5,000 if there is also color casting happening, or just go up to ISO 10,000 if there's not.
A few gyms are actually one stop brighter than the case mentioned above, and so I would use that as an opportunity to bump aperture, ISO, and shutter speed each by a notch to f/2.5, 1600, and 1/1250th.
** One other thing, when I'm taking pictures of coaches, players standing there, and whatever isn't action, I have a separate body with either a 300mm or 70-200 lens on it, and in that case, I definitely will use a slower shutter speed, like 1/200th, if there is any chance of color casting, to make sure that my photos don't have that color problem. But for action, the weird colors on some shots are just something to live with, because slowing down the shutter speed would only blur their faces too much. **
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helpful said:
I disagree. There are times when manual + auto iso is the way to go. If you want to set a fast shutter AND control depth of field AND have the camera meter... auto iso is the way to go.
Real world example: I was shooting a pro motocross race. I set a specific shutter speed that balances motion blur with stopping action. I set aperture to 5.6 (on 70-200 f/2.8 IS II) because it's outdoors with hills and crowds in the background and I don't want them blurred to nothing. Also the extra depth of field helps fudge focusing accuracy on fast moving riders. In some areas they move from open track to the shade under trees causing the lighting on them to change, so I used Auto ISO to allow the camera to meter and expose them correctly. It worked like a champ.
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bchernicoff said:
It depends on the background. If you're shooting against bright walls or dark stadiums interspersed with flashy advertising, then auto ISO is going to mess up the whole point of using manual exposure to get the right exposure.
If you are trying to have precisely the right shutter speed to track a vehicle while also conveying its motion, and exactly the right aperture for being able to have the crowd blurred just the right amount, then yes, auto ISO is good.
I should have been more clear that I didn't mean to always turn off auto ISO whenever manual exposure is being used.
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helpful said:
I figured that's what you meant, I just wanted anyone reading to realize that it has its place.
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