Need help. Canon 60D for sports--is it better to pony up for the 7D?

fussy III

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 6, 2013
99
1
Hi,

I had good opportunity to compare the two bodies side by side in 2011.

As result: I trust my 60D like I never trusted another digital Canon (I went through most anything comparable except EOS 1D Mark IV, Eos 5D III and EOS 1D X.)

By all means, do not go for the 7D. I sold mine because I found the center AF of the 60D to produce more reliable results. I had both camera side by side on a birdcliff for two weeks with circling fulmars and puffins using the 300/2.8 L USM and the 300/4.0 L IS USM. First I thought the 7D was better, then I was disappointed to see that it was fast on the bird but the tracking was slightly off in appr. 90 % when the 70D would miss only 50%. In fact I love my 60D for it's AF. Next thing I shot falcons in flight with it , big Gyrfalcons hunting (300/2.8), small Sooty Falcons chasing one another (500/4.0). Framerate sometimes was a bit slow for rthe action. But I am very happy with the 60D, best tracking results aside from older EOS 3, EOS 1n or EOS1D models I ever got. Frame rate is constantly delivering 5fps (not so the 7D, which always stays behind what it should be). Buffer never was really an issue on my 60D. I think the 60D is highly underestimated by 7D owners who might wish to believe they own the better camera.
 

brianboru

EOS M6 Mark II
May 1, 2012
98
9
I reread the original post:

RocklandDragon said:
...
Many high school stadiums are not well lit and the 7D from what I read is good for sports and should handle the low light situations better than the 60D. Also, I hear the 7D can handle the elements better.
....

Low light performance is identical between the two. They have the same sensor, same ISO range, and same Digic 4 processor(s).

Both are stated to be weather sealed although the 7D is supposed to have "better" sealing. With that said, you have to be using a weather sealed lens and filter for the body's sealing to be of any use! Weather sealing is available in most L lenses.
 

viggen61

EOS 90D
Jun 11, 2012
170
0
New Jersey, USA
RocklandDragon said:
What do y'all think? Is the 7D worth the higher cost over the 60D? I'm not worried about the learning curve and can handle the effort and time it takes to make the 7D or 60D good for sports photography. Also, what lens do you recommend and is it better just to
get the body kit for the 7D and save up for a great lens. The 7D at Best Buy has a 18-135mm IS lens but the body kit is $300 less.

Thanks everyone. Feedback would be appreciated.
8)
I'd say the 7D is the better performer for what you want to do with it. Whether it is worth spending the money on just now, I'm not so sure.

If you have the ability to return the 60D and trade up to the 7D with little or no loss, I'd say that's not a bad deal. Otherwise, learn with the 60D over the next few months. Both the 60D and 7D are due to be updated, and probably this year, so learning photography now will help you better to use an updated camera later. You'll still get some money from selling the 60D in a few months, but you'll have learned to use it better!
 

RMC33

EOS RP
Dec 30, 2012
423
0
7d no doubt. Was my workhorse for two and a half years. I would recommend a 70-200 f/4 as well if most of your work is outdoors.
 
Aug 5, 2012
244
0
www.facebook.com
At the amount the 7D has dropped in price currently it is definitely the best value for the money and not much more than the 60D. One small thing that I didn't see anyone mention yet is the AF manual adjustment feature that you gain with the 7D over the 60D. I'm sure the 60D can keep up a little more or less in more average sports situations but if your focus is off the entire time and you can't adjust it... You gotta go home. You can stay in the game with the 7D if your lens stops landing focus after knowing for sure that it should have, not that I'd be too paranoid about it but it's a good thing to have just in case.
 

STEMI_RN

EOS M50
Apr 29, 2012
39
0
Los Angeles
Sounds to me like everyone here basically agrees with the same point that the 7D is a better camera for the job, but might not be for the money. Allow me to throw in my $0.02.

I use a 60D and I love it, granted I do very little sports shooting. I use it mainly for nature/wildlife. Of course the wildlife side shares many requirements of the sports shooting. (requiring fast burst rates and tracking etc.) I would say that the bigger improvements in my photos came from my upgraded glass more than the body. So if you haven't spent that much money in that arena yet, it may be something to consider first. (A 70-200 F4L is a great start for a great price, but get the 2.8 IS if you can afford it.)

The 60D and the 7D have the exact same sensor (despite the differences in processing) so the IQ of each is comparable when shot under equally advantageous circumstances. With that said, the 7D has unquestionably better AF and burst rates. If you find the 60D is giving you trouble in these areas, might be time to consider an upgrade.

If you were to get rid of the 60D for the 7D, would you be able to return it for full refund, or have to sell it? If you were to sell it you would probably take a bath, seeing as how all rumors point to the 7DmII and the 70D being right around the corner. I never sell anything. You never know when you'll need a backup.

Bottom line, decide what's important to you and your shooting needs, and head that direction.
 

Rockets95

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 1, 2012
71
0
Perrysburg OH USA
I would consider replacing the EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS with one of the EF 70-200 L series as the first step. I am not a big fan of the 18-135 that I got with my 7D. It does not have the USM motor for fast focus, and my copy seemed soft. The negative part of this is, once you aquire a taste for L glass, it could be tough to kick the habit.
 

Marsu42

Canon Pride.
Feb 7, 2012
6,314
0
Berlin
der-tierfotograf.de
Northstar said:
7D...I shoot a lot of sports, FPS is a big deal, and so is AF speed/ accuracy. From what I have read, the 7d is better at both.

Not entirely - accuracy of the 60d is somewhat better (see Lensrentals), though both are not very precise in comparison to really good af systems like 1dx/5d3. The main advantage of the 7d is more focus points & firmware customization.

brianboru said:
Low light performance is identical between the two. They have the same sensor, same ISO range, and same Digic 4 processor(s).

It isn't - the low light performance of the 60d is better because the 7d has more banding (varying from body to body), so you can underexpose = faster shutter & raise shadows more on 60d. Ymmv how often you're doing this, but banding is something to consider, see the improvement 5d2->6d.

Disclaimer: The 7d is the better camera and I'd switch my 60d for free anytime - but my money goes into glass first unless a body has features I *really* depend on.
 

Pieces Of E

Canon owners and operators
Dec 10, 2011
144
0
www.piecesofeonline.com
Anyone besides me notice that the OP never replied to anyone after his/her initial question? If they are indeed reading the replies here, the money they spend at 'Best Buy' would be foolishly wasted compared to buying online at B&H or Adorama. Talk about retail markup!
 

Orangutan

EOS 5D Mark IV
Sep 25, 2010
2,140
3
I've photographed exactly one (US style) football game, involving adult amateurs. I used my 60D and 70-200 f/4 in near-perfect lighting conditions. With this combo, my "technical" hit rate was unbelievable: I think I threw out half a dozen out of hundreds on pure technical grounds (exposure, out of focus, motion blur, etc). Of course, other photos were thrown out just because they were not interesting. My one major problem was buffer depth: I tend to shoot raw only, and that would not give me enough frames to follow a play through, or to switch from where I thought the play was going to where it actually went. I found myself waiting for the highlight of each play, rather than following it through. (yes, there's a lot to be said for anticipating your shots) If you stick with the 60D, be prepared to shoot JPEG for the added buffer depth.

I can't speak to the question of shooting sports in low light. If you plan to shoot in the rain, I suggest getting a rain cover for anything short of a 1-series body.
 

Marsu42

Canon Pride.
Feb 7, 2012
6,314
0
Berlin
der-tierfotograf.de
Pieces Of E said:
Anyone besides me notice that the OP never replied to anyone after his/her initial question?

Yes, and this happens very often - it's basically longer-term cr members procrastinating or chatting among themselves. Either people with one post (like the op) just read some replies and then leave, or write something after quite a while. Another possibility is him trolling, but it didn't sound like it even though 7d vs. 60d is/was a heated issue.
 

RocklandDragon

EOS M50
Mar 5, 2013
33
0
Pieces Of E said:
Anyone besides me notice that the OP never replied to anyone after his/her initial question? If they are indeed reading the replies here, the money they spend at 'Best Buy' would be foolishly wasted compared to buying online at B&H or Adorama. Talk about retail markup!

Fear not. I'm reading the replies.

Actually Best Buy had the better price on the Canon 60D during the President's day sale. I got it there and the prices on the 60D and 7D with the 18-135 lens is in line with many of the big online retaliers. Only one that I saw that had a better deal than Best Buy by a decent margin was buy.com (or rakuten or whatever it is now.com).
 

RocklandDragon

EOS M50
Mar 5, 2013
33
0
Drum said:
The way I would look at this would be...... are you being paid for the photographs you take or are they just for yourself, friends, family maybe the local high school? if you are being paid maybe it's worth considering an upgrade if not then the 60D will be more than enough, apart from the frame rate and auto focus, they have the same M.P. and sensor and will produce a quality shot. get a better lens with more range, the 70-200's are great for this sort of thing, you bought the 60D for a reason what were those reasons?

I would like to post them on a site eventually. It will be a high school football site kept up by me and it is not for pay but I do want other people to freely look through the photos and enjoy shots of the games I see across the state of Texas. I also hope to take video clips (nothing too long) of scoring plays. I really appreciate how the 60D and 7D can handle video and a good lens can even make recording that even better.

I got the 60D because it was a great price, had good reviews, it felt comfortable in my hands, the shutter speed, and decent video recording. The 60D was my second choice because the 7D was just out of reach. I said I had got it last week. That was my fault. It was two weeks ago. The sale at Best Buy and the opportunity to get the 60D in hand pressed me to get it.

Don't get me wrong. So far, I like the 60D and many of the shots I have taken during the day are nice. I have been just trying the camera out for outside shots and a soccer game during the day. I want to take some more shots with it at a baseball game this week, if the game is played at night. There should be a soccer game for high school during the evening this week as well so I could try it more. Like I said, I think the night shots I had were off due to me still learning the camera. To be honest with you, I've been using manual focus for the shots I have taken. I'm used to messing with manual focus from the Sony digital camera I once had. I'll take some more and I'll try to post them here later this week, if I can.

I plan to have this camera for at least two years. I can still return the 60D and get the 7D at Best Buy with the 18-135 lens for around $1448. I'm very apprecitative of the lens recommendations and I can work extra to get a good lens around July or August. Maybe by June if all goes well. I'd only sell the 60D or 7D if the 70D and the 7D Mark II are signifigantly better and can get a decent price (not likely to happen for a while).

I got a couple of weeks before the 30 days is up. I'm going to stay with Canon. I have nothing really against the Nikon but I feel more comfortable with the Canons. I'll keep absorbing all the information y'all have provided and I really appreciate all the info that has been provided.

Thanks!
8)
 

jasonsim

Hobbyist
Dec 23, 2011
229
0
44
Raleigh, NC
If all you have is the 18-135mm kit lens, then the 7D will be of little value. Do yourself a big favor and keep the 60D, but get a lens with USM. The 70-200mm f/4L USM is around $600 or less and you will get killer action shots. Just my two cents.

RocklandDragon said:
Drum said:
The way I would look at this would be...... are you being paid for the photographs you take or are they just for yourself, friends, family maybe the local high school? if you are being paid maybe it's worth considering an upgrade if not then the 60D will be more than enough, apart from the frame rate and auto focus, they have the same M.P. and sensor and will produce a quality shot. get a better lens with more range, the 70-200's are great for this sort of thing, you bought the 60D for a reason what were those reasons?

I would like to post them on a site eventually. It will be a high school football site kept up by me and it is not for pay but I do want other people to freely look through the photos and enjoy shots of the games I see across the state of Texas. I also hope to take video clips (nothing too long) of scoring plays. I really appreciate how the 60D and 7D can handle video and a good lens can even make recording that even better.

I got the 60D because it was a great price, had good reviews, it felt comfortable in my hands, the shutter speed, and decent video recording. The 60D was my second choice because the 7D was just out of reach. I said I had got it last week. That was my fault. It was two weeks ago. The sale at Best Buy and the opportunity to get the 60D in hand pressed me to get it.

Don't get me wrong. So far, I like the 60D and many of the shots I have taken during the day are nice. I have been just trying the camera out for outside shots and a soccer game during the day. I want to take some more shots with it at a baseball game this week, if the game is played at night. There should be a soccer game for high school during the evening this week as well so I could try it more. Like I said, I think the night shots I had were off due to me still learning the camera. To be honest with you, I've been using manual focus for the shots I have taken. I'm used to messing with manual focus from the Sony digital camera I once had. I'll take some more and I'll try to post them here later this week, if I can.

I plan to have this camera for at least two years. I can still return the 60D and get the 7D at Best Buy with the 18-135 lens for around $1448. I'm very apprecitative of the lens recommendations and I can work extra to get a good lens around July or August. Maybe by June if all goes well. I'd only sell the 60D or 7D if the 70D and the 7D Mark II are signifigantly better and can get a decent price (not likely to happen for a while).

I got a couple of weeks before the 30 days is up. I'm going to stay with Canon. I have nothing really against the Nikon but I feel more comfortable with the Canons. I'll keep absorbing all the information y'all have provided and I really appreciate all the info that has been provided.

Thanks!
8)
 

greger

7D
Jan 1, 2013
259
1
The settings I posted before are a good place to start and can be altered as needed. Here's a post on cr that you might
find of interest. I found it by doing a google search of 60D and AI Servo.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=956.0

From what I have read an upgrade to 7D is not needed. The 60D is quite capable of satisfying your needs. :)
 

Pieces Of E

Canon owners and operators
Dec 10, 2011
144
0
www.piecesofeonline.com
I do stand corrected. RocklandDragon, I appreciate your responses and am surprised at the deal at Best Buy. Cool beans for you. Good luck with which ever body you do choose to keep and like everyone says, good glass can make a good camera a great camera, limitations aside of course. Cheers! :)
 

RocklandDragon

EOS M50
Mar 5, 2013
33
0
Pieces Of E said:
I do stand corrected. RocklandDragon, I appreciate your responses and am surprised at the deal at Best Buy. Cool beans for you. Good luck with which ever body you do choose to keep and like everyone says, good glass can make a good camera a great camera, limitations aside of course. Cheers! :)

Thanks. It has been an interesting and informative discussion. Now, I'm looking at the lenses that were mentioned on here. A questio I have is if I get a good lens on the 60D--a 200mm lens--and it looks better than the kit lens on the 7D, would that 200mm lens have even better quality on the 7D or would the differences be relatively insignifigant? It's nice to save money if I can great shots on a 60D but since I plan to have the camera for a while, then if the 7D can do better with great glass then I'd go with that.

I guess I have it ingrained in my head about the 7D being a great sports camera. Review after review would say how great the 7D is for sports. The new Sony cameras even caught my eye with their impressive shutter speed and good video recording capabilities but it came down to the 60D and 7D because they can handle both and the 60D's good price.

Speaking of price, Best Buy still has a deal going on for the 60D and 7D. If the prices of the 7D and 60D had gone back to their regular prices like they did inside the stores then I would be settled with the 60D and learn it to get great sports shots. Since the 7Dgame is on sale again and has a low price guarantee, then I'm reconsidering because I now have the rest to cover the 7D's cost. Believe me, Best Buy are doing these deals because they absolutely have to. You're right about their markup during back in the day when they toppled Circuit City and even Wal-Mart didnt hurt them bad. Amazon, BPphoto, and Buy.com sure did, though. Why would I pay $1600 for a 7D when Amazon has it for $1300? Best Buy is losing money and I dont know if they are going to come back to black. They have to stay competitive with the online shops but it could be too late (hope not, though). But that's another story.

Back to the topic. When I was researching about the 60D in particular, online reviewers, CNET, and a couple others were kind of harsh to the 60D. They liked the performance of the 60D (but not as much as the Nikon D7000 in most cases) but took issue with the button layout. CNET still gave it four stars out of five. On digitalrev, the Nikon got better marks than the 60D but still stated that the 60Dautofocus is a good camera as well. Now the 7D did outshine the D7000 as a better overall camera due to its video, shutter speed, feel, and responsiveness.

The D60 was being used with the kit lens for the reviews as well as the other ones, and as you all have stated, putting on a good lens for the D60 can really help getting great night shots of the football games. I wish Digitalrev or someone could review a great lens on a D60. They did do a review for a EF 200mm lens with a 7D and did it look nice! That's exactly what I'm looking for and seeing that a 7D can handle that is impressive....but maybe not practical since the lens is $6,000 on Amazon and that's a sale price.

Canon EF 200mm f/2 L Hands-on Review

It may not be tomorrow, but in a few months, I could invest good money in a great lens. Maybe not $2200 for now but a great lens would do wonders for my photo and video shots on a 60D or 7D. Looks like Canon's got me hooked line and sinker and once I get this lens, I'm going to be with Canon for quite a while...and that's going to be a good thing.

8)
 

TeenTog

Fear no man, for he bleeds just like you.
Jun 26, 2012
133
1
Palatine, Il
www.teentog.com
I would wait for the 70D to come out. It will have to fil a gap that the 7D will leave when it updates to the MkII, so in that respect should be better frame rate and AF wise for sports.
 

greger

7D
Jan 1, 2013
259
1
You say you have a couple more weeks to trade up to a 7D. In 2 weeks Canon may announce something that will change
this debate into a whole new direction. If they come out with a 70D as hoped for by many, it may eclipse both the 60D
and the 7D which I think is a one trick pony. I used the settings I posted earlier on my 40D and 70-200 F4 IS USM and
1.4 ll Extender and got some really nice pics of BIF. The 2.8 ll is probably even better because it's a fast lens and even
with a 2X extender at F5.6 I think it would automatic focus using AI servo on any canon camera that has AI Servo
capabilities.