New 7D2 'studio version' released?

Don Haines said:
you just have to assume this is an April Fools joke....

If it was real, instead of basing it on a 7D2 and an external (and very expensive) WiFi transmiutter, they would have gone for the much cheaper 70D or 80D WITH BUILT IN WIFI!!!!!

I'm pretty sure it's real, just like the 7D SV.

As for basing it on the 7DII vs. a lower model, the 7DII is a more durable model (e.g. 200K vs. 100K shutter life). The SV model is obviously targeted at business customers, and capital assets are depreciated over a multi-year period, which provides a tax benefit. I can tell you from experience that having equipment fail before it's fully depreciated sucks...
 
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I may have gotten a bit over zealous with my previous post and that wasn't necessary. This isn't that big of a deal. Truly. BUT - I would like to summarize...

- Neuro - I think we all know that firmware changes that reveal features don't require separate hardware. It's just a few more lines of code. I don't think it would be that hard to keep people from locking themselves out of their own camera. And the features offered here don't appear to use any special hardware that doesn't exist on every camera already.

- ahsanford - Yeah, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. It's all good. I know you're just commenting.

Look, to be clear - I think the "Studio Version" camera has a use and has a market. It's a good idea. I just don't understand why Canon is creating a dedicated piece of hardware to essentially provide a feature that is all software (firmware). Forget the rest. Forget having it all integrated. I just don't see the need for another camera body.

And with regard to crop vs. FF - I'm perfectly willing to concede that I don't have a clue about what is the most popular or useful format for this target audience. I'm just saying that a few extra menu features could be available in ALL of Canon's cameras and it would create versatility for all photographers if they needed this functionality. Again - Why only make it available with one single, special crop sensor body?

With just a little imagination, I could see anyone using some of these features in their workflow. A barcode isn't always necessary. But being able to tag/add inventory, project, shooter, etc or other kinds of data to the images and organize them, send them to a computer, phone, tablet, or whatever would still save time for many busy photographers, esp if they were working as a team at an event. Why restrict this to only one camera body?
 
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RustyTheGeek said:
I may have gotten a bit over zealous with my previous post and that wasn't necessary. This isn't that big of a deal. Truly. BUT - I would like to summarize...

- Neuro - I think we all know that firmware changes that reveal features don't require separate hardware. It's just a few more lines of code. I don't think it would be that hard to keep people from locking themselves out of their own camera. And the features offered here don't appear to use any special hardware that doesn't exist on every camera already.

- ahsanford - Yeah, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. It's all good. I know you're just commenting.

Look, to be clear - I think the "Studio Version" camera has a use and has a market. It's a good idea. I just don't understand why Canon is creating a dedicated piece of hardware to essentially provide a feature that is all software (firmware). Forget the rest. Forget having it all integrated. I just don't see the need for another camera body.

And with regard to crop vs. FF - I'm perfectly willing to concede that I don't have a clue about what is the most popular or useful format for this target audience. I'm just saying that a few extra menu features could be available in ALL of Canon's cameras and it would create versatility for all photographers if they needed this functionality. Again - Why only make it available with one single, special crop sensor body?

With just a little imagination, I could see anyone using some of these features in their workflow. A barcode isn't always necessary. But being able to tag/add inventory, project, shooter, etc or other kinds of data to the images and organize them, send them to a computer, phone, tablet, or whatever would still save time for many busy photographers, esp if they were working as a team at an event. Why restrict this to only one camera body?
My workflow has been taking pictures of the barcode, then pictures of the item.... a barcode reader is just one more thing to carry in the field. Of course a studio is different, but there I would probably have the camera and barcode reader talking to the computer....
 
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Don Haines said:
RustyTheGeek said:
I may have gotten a bit over zealous with my previous post and that wasn't necessary. This isn't that big of a deal. Truly. BUT - I would like to summarize...

- Neuro - I think we all know that firmware changes that reveal features don't require separate hardware. It's just a few more lines of code. I don't think it would be that hard to keep people from locking themselves out of their own camera. And the features offered here don't appear to use any special hardware that doesn't exist on every camera already.

- ahsanford - Yeah, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. It's all good. I know you're just commenting.

Look, to be clear - I think the "Studio Version" camera has a use and has a market. It's a good idea. I just don't understand why Canon is creating a dedicated piece of hardware to essentially provide a feature that is all software (firmware). Forget the rest. Forget having it all integrated. I just don't see the need for another camera body.

And with regard to crop vs. FF - I'm perfectly willing to concede that I don't have a clue about what is the most popular or useful format for this target audience. I'm just saying that a few extra menu features could be available in ALL of Canon's cameras and it would create versatility for all photographers if they needed this functionality. Again - Why only make it available with one single, special crop sensor body?

With just a little imagination, I could see anyone using some of these features in their workflow. A barcode isn't always necessary. But being able to tag/add inventory, project, shooter, etc or other kinds of data to the images and organize them, send them to a computer, phone, tablet, or whatever would still save time for many busy photographers, esp if they were working as a team at an event. Why restrict this to only one camera body?
My workflow has been taking pictures of the barcode, then pictures of the item.... a barcode reader is just one more thing to carry in the field. Of course a studio is different, but there I would probably have the camera and barcode reader talking to the computer....

maybe a pain in the field, but hauling the reader and a mini CPU into the field could save hours in the office...
 
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Don Haines said:
My workflow has been taking pictures of the barcode, then pictures of the item.... a barcode reader is just one more thing to carry in the field. Of course a studio is different, but there I would probably have the camera and barcode reader talking to the computer....

In my studio, we were originally typing codes into Capture One manually, anywhere from six to twelve or more characters, so it was easy to make a typo. Then we played with a couple of barcode scanners which were better, but you still needed to click in the "Next Capture Naming" field, then scan, then start shooting. Or shoot, the scan and rename the files just shot (it would depend on your workflow in the studio, if you were working with a stylist etc etc).

With this 7DIISV, you simply scan the code (it's sent directly to the camera), and then shoot. Really easy. It can be set up a number of ways so that (for example) one scan allows you one shot - you can't make a second exposure until the same or different code is scanned in again. Means you can't forget to input the next code and keep shooting with incorrect code from the previous item.

I'm surprised Capture One doesn't have a barcode recognition feature built in. Would be handy to designate a certain area of the frame for it to look in for each shot, and if it can find and read a barcode within that space, add it into the file name or meta-data or perform some other action you require. Then you can potentially shoot a single frame containing both the item and tag with barcode, and cut down on shutter wear.

Cheers,
d.
 
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RustyTheGeek said:
Look, to be clear - I think the "Studio Version" camera has a use and has a market. It's a good idea. I just don't understand why Canon is creating a dedicated piece of hardware to essentially provide a feature that is all software (firmware). Forget the rest. Forget having it all integrated. I just don't see the need for another camera body.

And with regard to crop vs. FF - I'm perfectly willing to concede that I don't have a clue about what is the most popular or useful format for this target audience. I'm just saying that a few extra menu features could be available in ALL of Canon's cameras and it would create versatility for all photographers if they needed this functionality. Again - Why only make it available with one single, special crop sensor body?

With just a little imagination, I could see anyone using some of these features in their workflow. A barcode isn't always necessary. But being able to tag/add inventory, project, shooter, etc or other kinds of data to the images and organize them, send them to a computer, phone, tablet, or whatever would still save time for many busy photographers, esp if they were working as a team at an event. Why restrict this to only one camera body?

Sadly, it's the Canon way. Why did we have to buy external intervalometers for Canon bodies for so many years when other camera brands had all that built into the firmware. When I switched from Nikon to Canon I couldn't believe that unlike my D3, which I could program to make time-lapses on its own, I had to purchase and plug in something external to my 1DX to achieve the same.

I agree that the barcoding would be a useful feature to have across all Canon bodies, FF or crop, so you've got the option of both. My studio used mostly FF, but we had a couple of cheaper crop bodies that would get dragged out from time to time as well.

d.
 
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I am confident that this year is the year for the 1DW body and 200-600mm f/4.0 L IS STM lens!
Let's go already! ;D

eos1dw.jpg


Canon-EF-200-600mm-f-4-L-W-IS-USM-STM-Lens.jpg
 
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hubie said:
You know, it's no god april fool joke anymore, when you say it is not April fool joke...

Nope. You need to go here for your April Fool's joke:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2016/04/01/canon-announces-7-series-rangefinder-leica-mount/#.Vv4oinpyzNA

- A
 
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RustyTheGeek said:
- Neuro - I think we all know that firmware changes that reveal features don't require separate hardware. It's just a few more lines of code. I don't think it would be that hard to keep people from locking themselves out of their own camera. And the features offered here don't appear to use any special hardware that doesn't exist on every camera already.

Look, to be clear - I think the "Studio Version" camera has a use and has a market. It's a good idea. I just don't understand why Canon is creating a dedicated piece of hardware to essentially provide a feature that is all software (firmware). Forget the rest. Forget having it all integrated. I just don't see the need for another camera body.

Yes, I get that you don't understand why Canon is doing this and you don't see the need. Apologies for being blunt, but so what? Canon is releasing a 7DII SV because they see a need. Canon launched a 7D SV six years ago, and obviously know how many they sold, so they understand the market for a 7DII SV as a dedicated, specific model variant.

It doesn't have to exist at all. The firmware options could be incorporated into any or every dSLR that Canon makes. Or, they could release a dedicated version of their top APS-C camera. Evidently, Canon chose that last option – twice. No doubt they have good reasons for that choice.

Certainly the SV product meets a need for some photographers, but it's a niche segment – not many have a need to lock out selected settings or embed barcodes in their EXIF metadata. So, why put the feature into every camera by default? That adds development and testing requirements (i.e., time and cost) across the line.

Most importantly, you need to understand Canon's goal. It's not to make photography easier, to make customers happy, or to provide every feature under the sun. Their goal is to make money and return value to their shareholders. Period. Every product, and every feature, costs something. If Canon believes making that product or adding that feature will yield a positive return on investment, then it's worth doing. People accuse Canon of 'just doing the minimum' in terms of improvements or features – and they're right. Canon isn't your buddy, guy, and they're not your friend, pal. They're a business, and 'doing the minimum' is a sound business policy. The fact that they've held the #1 market share for 13 years now suggests they know what they're doing. Whether you or I understand or agree with what they're doing is, to again be blunt, irrelevant.
 
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Fashion lookbook shooters have always struggled to keep
track of all the articles in a look that make up an image.
Shoes, pants, top, shawl, belt...... scan the barcode and
all your SKU's are inside your EXIF data, ready to be processed.

This will very likely spare you one extra digital assistant
or hang tag wrangler in a production. The camera delivers
a full return on investment in only a few days of shooting.

The only drawback is the miserable integration of the WFT.
I loved the vertical grip style of the WFT-E42 for the 5D Mk2
and did not buy the WFT for the 5D Mk3 because it is such
a cumbersome brick with accident prone cable connection.

Wifi built in - okay, Wifi via a rugged 1D style dongle - okay.
Wifi in a vertical grip - also okay. Wifi in a brick? No way.
 
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Nero beat me to it. You have to have a good business acumen to understand these things. You do not put a feature in EVERY camera model when it is designed for a niche market. You make more money by doing it the way they are doing it. Not to mention the bugs and implementation, to EVERY model vs. a smaller subset of models.
 
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ahsanford said:
RustyTheGeek said:
ahsanford said:
As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, this is Bluetooth related. You can't tack that on with firmware unless it's been sitting on the 7D2 this the whole time without our knowledge.

- A

??? Bluetooth? ??? Let me get this straight... I have to buy an external wireless transmitter to attach to this camera body and then I'm forced to buy a SPECIAL 7D camera body just so I can get BLUETOOTH? (Along with some simple menu items and a fancy battery door.) No offense to you ahsanford but that is the biggest waste of money and insulting rip-off I've seen in a long while.

I am neither a Canon spokesperson nor fond of this product. I'm just answering your question based on a plausible theory why this isn't a firmware opportunity.

In fairness, I haven't even verified this theory. I thought the 7D2's wireless file transmitter actually had some form of bluetooth connectivity, didn't it?

- A

I was wrong, you are correct - I checked last night and the WFT has connectivity for bluetooth GPS receivers. Which presumably could also be extended to barcode/rfid readers with firmware, so this does appear to be a software based solution.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
RustyTheGeek said:
- Neuro - I think we all know that firmware changes that reveal features don't require separate hardware. It's just a few more lines of code. I don't think it would be that hard to keep people from locking themselves out of their own camera. And the features offered here don't appear to use any special hardware that doesn't exist on every camera already.

Look, to be clear - I think the "Studio Version" camera has a use and has a market. It's a good idea. I just don't understand why Canon is creating a dedicated piece of hardware to essentially provide a feature that is all software (firmware). Forget the rest. Forget having it all integrated. I just don't see the need for another camera body.

Yes, I get that you don't understand why Canon is doing this and you don't see the need. Apologies for being blunt, but so what? Canon is releasing a 7DII SV because they see a need. Canon launched a 7D SV six years ago, and obviously know how many they sold, so they understand the market for a 7DII SV as a dedicated, specific model variant.

Neuro – The “Canon knows best” argument is a given and I agree that Canon is doing what they think is best. My points are essentially hypothetical “what-ifs” that illustrate the possibilities and advantages that could be gained by both Canon and photographers. Isn't that the point?

It doesn't have to exist at all. The firmware options could be incorporated into any or every dSLR that Canon makes. Or, they could release a dedicated version of their top APS-C camera. Evidently, Canon chose that last option – twice. No doubt they have good reasons for that choice.

And since this is a photography rumors forum, not an investment or corporate business forum, I’m trying to contribute an idea that might be a neat thing. Listen, I get that Canon is a business and is mainly interested in profit. Again, that’s a given. And we all want Canon to be profitable. But when Canon releases an expensive special camera body that only offers one extra feature in the firmware, I think it’s a natural reaction for most folks to think it’s weird and self serving.

Certainly the SV product meets a need for some photographers, but it's a niche segment – not many have a need to lock out selected settings or embed barcodes in their EXIF metadata. So, why put the feature into every camera by default? That adds development and testing requirements (i.e., time and cost) across the line.

Why? Because it gives EVERYONE a chance to improve, evolve, try something new, etc and thank Canon for that. Because it honestly doesn’t cost that much and helps elevate the brand and the line. Features like this that seem benign and niche at first can sometimes launch entire niche markets. Photography software developers like Capture One, et al might be tempted/motivated to add new features that utilize/build on this. Studio photography workflow could possibly be improved dramatically and who would the industry thank? Canon!! Canon is not just any other corporation, they are an industry leader and a driving force. They can influence the entire market. Offering things like this (seemingly for free) SELLS CAMERAS. That’s why they should do it. It wasn't too long ago that there was another niche market - DIGITAL CAMERAS.

Most importantly, you need to understand Canon's goal. It's not to make photography easier, to make customers happy, or to provide every feature under the sun. Their goal is to make money and return value to their shareholders. Period. Every product, and every feature, costs something. If Canon believes making that product or adding that feature will yield a positive return on investment, then it's worth doing. People accuse Canon of 'just doing the minimum' in terms of improvements or features – and they're right. Canon isn't your buddy, guy, and they're not your friend, pal. They're a business, and 'doing the minimum' is a sound business policy. The fact that they've held the #1 market share for 13 years now suggests they know what they're doing. Whether you or I understand or agree with what they're doing is, to again be blunt, irrelevant.

Neuro – I’ve written this exact same paragraph before myself. I agree. You’re right. Canon’s primary goal is to be profitable. And stating this fact just throws water on the topic. But since you went there... I really don't think making a firmware change (which happens regularly) with a few lines of firmware code to offer a niche feature, will alter Canon’s profit margins. And six years ago is an eternity. NOW – Canon needs to think hard about the DSLR market vs. the competing formats. They can generate more good will and keep the DSLR relevant, compelling necessary by making it do things the other stuff can’t. The SV feature is a good example of this. I'm not suggesting they throw every feature under the sun in, hell no! But in this case, creating a special expensive camera body is weird.

IMHO – Instead of offering a niche camera body, Canon could add this feature to every new camera they sell and offer a firmware update to the existing bodies. Everyone thinks Canon is a hero and potentially their cameras get USED MORE and consequentially, they SELL MORE. They beat the competition to the punch with yet another innovative feature that no one else has.

Again, this is a rumors forum and I’m just letting my imagination run. I’m not being negative, I’m just postulating -> WHAT IF ??
 
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bdunbar79 said:
Nero beat me to it. You have to have a good business acumen to understand these things. You do not put a feature in EVERY camera model when it is designed for a niche market. You make more money by doing it the way they are doing it. Not to mention the bugs and implementation, to EVERY model vs. a smaller subset of models.

I understand the business points. I'm just trying to offer alternative ideas and postulating WHAT IF ?? I agree that Canon is in the business to make money and be profitable. But sometimes can't we just talk about the possibilities of something better without throwing water on the topic by saying it's all business? And for what it's worth, I don't think adding this feature to every camera would cause much of an issue at all. It's just another feature. But Canon could market it up and sell more cameras just like every other feature that no one uses.
 
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RustyTheGeek said:
neuroanatomist said:
Tugela said:
The problem is that they do it time after time after time. When do they plan to release a product that I actually do have a use for?

That's your problem, not Canon's.


Tugela said:
There is zero reason why this sort of functionality could not have been built in from the get go. After all it is supposed to be a pro camera. They don't need to release a dozen variants of the same camera.

As usual, you and your ilk always think you know better than Canon how Canon should spend Canon's money and how Canon should formulate Canon's business strategy.

There's 'zero reason'? Gee, Canon must be idiots to do it the way they are, right? I mean, it's not like they might have any data to support their strategy here, say things like market research or even something simple like how many units of the SV version of the original 7D were sold, and whether that version yielded a positive return on investment. Where are your data showing that you know better?

Oh, and yes, I get that you probably meant 'no technical reason' it can't be built in. If so, I guess you think typical users need multiple levels of password controls, recovery options, etc., and that a barcode solution suitable for medical/forensic use is going to come in handy for lots of photographers. If Canon users really wanted 40 extra menu choices to sift through, they'd switch to Sony or Nikon.

Honestly Neuro, I don't understand your negative post replies above. I was thinking roughly the same thing as Tugela. Why does this feature demand a special camera body? These camera body settings appear to be software only items. I'm willing to bet they are already hidden in the firmware on existing 7D-2 bodies. All that needs to be done is have an extra menu item in Custom Settings that enables the Photo Studio Mode (and necc sub menus). In fact, I see no reason why "Photo Studio Mode" settings couldn't be available on ALL of Canon's 5D, 7D and 1D series cameras that most pros use. Then Canon gets to sell all the extra side hardware needed to curious/interested customers.

Don't most studios use FF? (At least studios that can afford to buy a whole dedicated body just for barcodes and would probably buy at least TWO or THREE to protect workflow and potential downtime at a big event.) Why make folks buy a whole other crop body? Seems pretty redundant and will probably discourage most pros that might otherwise try out a barcode approach if all they had to buy was a set of the extra hardware to test the approach with existing camera bodies. Most pros already probably have a customer/product ID/tracking system that works for them and this isn't going to be worth the investment if they have to buy all new bodies and hardware to boot. In most cases, if it ain't broke....

THIS IS CANON' sWAY OF FLOODING THE MARKET WITH NEW 7D2's REMEMBER THEY NEVER REALLY FIXED OR EVEN MADE A STATEMENT ON TE BAD AF PROBLEMS SOME HAD THAT U HAD TOO EITHER SEND IN,RETURN OR HOPE A NEW FIRMWARE FIXED
WHICH WE ONLY HAD 1 REAL OPTION OTHER THEN RETURNS
 
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d said:
RustyTheGeek said:
Look, to be clear - I think the "Studio Version" camera has a use and has a market. It's a good idea. I just don't understand why Canon is creating a dedicated piece of hardware to essentially provide a feature that is all software (firmware). Forget the rest. Forget having it all integrated. I just don't see the need for another camera body.

And with regard to crop vs. FF - I'm perfectly willing to concede that I don't have a clue about what is the most popular or useful format for this target audience. I'm just saying that a few extra menu features could be available in ALL of Canon's cameras and it would create versatility for all photographers if they needed this functionality. Again - Why only make it available with one single, special crop sensor body?

With just a little imagination, I could see anyone using some of these features in their workflow. A barcode isn't always necessary. But being able to tag/add inventory, project, shooter, etc or other kinds of data to the images and organize them, send them to a computer, phone, tablet, or whatever would still save time for many busy photographers, esp if they were working as a team at an event. Why restrict this to only one camera body?

Sadly, it's the Canon way. Why did we have to buy external intervalometers for Canon bodies for so many years when other camera brands had all that built into the firmware. When I switched from Nikon to Canon I couldn't believe that unlike my D3, which I could program to make time-lapses on its own, I had to purchase and plug in something external to my 1DX to achieve the same.

I agree that the barcoding would be a useful feature to have across all Canon bodies, FF or crop, so you've got the option of both. My studio used mostly FF, but we had a couple of cheaper crop bodies that would get dragged out from time to time as well.

d.

I thought the same thing! The infamous missing intervalometer. How much profit did Canon really make on their expensive (and feature limited) external contraption compared with the amount of ire they generated by any photog who hated paying $125 to hang a giant POS off the side of the camera? (Which was available from China with more features for 1/5 the price.)
 
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I also want to say something else...

Canon is innovating. Consider (only one of many features) the possibilities of EOS Remote - what it offers and has the potential to offer in the future.

So on one hand Canon shows innovative thinking. On the other, they seem to be stuck in the past. And I'm OK with that specifically because their cameras are NOT like a kitchen sink SONY camera. But that doesn't mean I always agree with every facet of it.
 
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