New Canon Speedlites and ST-E3!

[AvTvM]

I just got my ST-E3 and the 600EX and the only 2 sync options are first curtain and HSS - NO second curtain option.

Canon is charging outrageous prices for the new flashes and ST-E3 but did NOT update their ancient wireless ETTL-protocol to include flash on 2nd curtain. It is ridiculous and a real shame and one of the reasons I am holding off from buying an RT-set.

The Phottix Odin however enables 2nd curtain flash with Canon Speedlites, including 580EX/II and 430EX/II. It is obvioulsy neither difficult nor costly to include 2nd curtain flash in a radio trigger protocol. The Odin also allows triggering of monolights - even in mixed sets with Canon Speedlites.

I will wait to see, whether or not Canon brings out RT-receivers to include existing Speedlites (especially 580/II and 430/II) as well as monolights in a wireless setup and updates their wireless ETTL-protocol to include 2nd curtain flash.

These 2 features [2nd curtain, RF-triggers for existing speedlites and monolights] will be important factors in my decision on how to replace my 7D plus EF-S and EF glass in the future. The longer Canon drags its feet on this, the higher tNikon's chance to also bring out radio flash triggering with full iTTL support.

 

[briansquibb]

I have always enabled 2nd curtain in the camera not the flash ...

 

[AvTvM]

I have always enabled 2nd curtain in the camera not the flash ...

this will only work with Speedlites in the hotshoe or connectd to the hotshoe via cable.

If you are using speedlites on a wireless connection - both the "old" optical method or RT/radio - you will not get flash on the 2nd curtain using Canon-only gear. 2nd curtain flash is simply not implemented in Canon's wireless ETTL-protocol.

Phottix Odins however seem to be capable of this (not tested myself, and no idea, how exactly they get htis to work), don't know about other third party radio triggers (PW-Flex, RadioPoppers) ...

I don't care, HOW Canon implements it, I just want them to do it ... quickly! It should really, really have been included with the new set of radio-trigger flashes (600EX-RT) and controller (ST-E3-RT).

 

[Marsu42]

If you are using speedlites on a wireless connection - both the "old" optical method or RT/radio - you will not get flash on the 2nd curtain using Canon-only gear. 2nd curtain flash is simply not implemented in Canon's wireless ETTL-protocol.

You're correct - I only discovered that after I got my 480ex2 flash. It's ridiculous I can use hss sync and not x-sync when operating it on infrared, and imho it is plausible that this is a shortcoming of the ettl protocol. As it is, it ruins the creativity for sport shots with non-direct flash.

 

[Strobe the globe]

I have recently bought the Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT flash, and I did an "Unboxing Hands-On Video Review", if you're interested ...

Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT - Unboxing & First Look

I'm super happy with it! It has great power when zoomed in e.g. illuminating faces very well when zoomed in to 200mm shooting more than 10 meters away from my subject.

 

[pwp]

I use HSS a lot and depend on it. But DUH...it's taken until today to find out about the PocketWizard MiniTT1 and the power efficiencies it provides when using HSS. I gather it will work beautifully with my 1D4 but no action with the 5D3. Current speedlights are 580ex & 580exII. Fully prepared to update to 600ex-RT to get optimum HSS performance.

Does the ST-E3 offer the same efficiencies as PocketWizard MiniTT1 in HSS mode when paired with 600ex-RT? Given I'll be working with 1D4, 5D3 & 1DX, what hardware combination is going to deliver the optimum HSS outcomes?

Paul Wright

 

[Daniel Flather]

I have two 600ex-rts on order; when will the ST-E3-RT be available? No one seems to have the ST-E3-RT.

 

[Daniel Flather]

Got my st-e3-rt last friday and I'm loving the set up.

 

[wickidwombat]

Phottix Odins however seem to be capable of this (not tested myself, and no idea, how exactly they get htis to work), don't know about other third party radio triggers (PW-Flex, RadioPoppers) ...

the odins have the screen with controls on the transmitter so you enable HSS second curatin etc on that the same as you would on a 580, you can also control your seperate group powers etc from there A:B ratios etc

another neat trick i tried with the odins was got a 3.5mm stereo splitter cable and plugged it into 1 reciever the plugged the PC-sync cables into 2 flashes (In manual mode) and the 1 reciever can fire 2 flashes! great for blowing backgrounds to white etc

 

[Marsu42]

I will wait to see, whether or not Canon brings out RT-receivers to include existing Speedlites (especially 580/II and 430/II) as well as monolights in a wireless setup and updates their wireless ETTL-protocol to include 2nd curtain flash.

The only indication I've seen is a post here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/canon/announcements/new-canon-600ex-rt-speedlite-flash-powerhouse stating that Canon will release a legacy radio trigger add-on, I guess once everybody who is in a hurry bought multiple 600rt flashes.

Any news/schedule on the radio tigger add-ons, or if they'll be able to trigger non-Canon flashes as well?

If they are, except for 2nd curtain x-sync the 3rd party alternatives become obsolete, but on the other hand Canon might be hesitant to radio-trigger cheap Yongnuos cannibalizing their own expensiv flash sales. What do you think?

 

[Loswr]

The only indication I've seen is a post here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/canon/announcements/new-canon-600ex-rt-speedlite-flash-powerhouse stating that Canon will release a legacy radio trigger add-on, I guess once everybody who is in a hurry bought multiple 600rt flashes.

You're referring to the statement by an anonymous poster that 'a Canon rep told me...' Not the most reliable of sources...

I expect Canon will release one down the line, but first they'll release a 430EX II replacement with -RT, then wait for sales of both the 600EX-RT and it's new smaller cousin to slow down, before they release an RF receiver to allow older flashes to work with the RT system.

 

[Marsu42]

You're referring to the statement by an anonymous poster that 'a Canon rep told me...' Not the most reliable of sources...

Yep, I know - that's why I was asking here. Waiting for a Canon legacy trigger wouldn't be a problem for many, but it would be bad if they *only* could trigger Canon flashes and not dumb, cheaper ttl ones. Do you think Canon would do that to its valued customers? Without this information, it's very hard what way to go - 3rd party or Canon.

 

[Loswr]

...it would be bad if they *only* could trigger Canon flashes and not dumb, cheaper ttl ones. Do you think Canon would do that to its valued customers?

Yes, I think Canon would very likely do exactly that...

 

[AvTvM]

I expect Canon will release one down the line, but first they'll release a 430EX II replacement with -RT, then wait for sales of both the 600EX-RT and it's new smaller cousin to slow down, before they release an RF receiver to allow older flashes to work with the RT system.

exactly my expectation. It would be so truly Canon to handle it that way.

* 600EX-RT is a 580EX II with radio wireless and 200m reflector added, but price nearly doubled
* ST-E3 lacks AF-light capability but is still bloody expensive
* Radio receivers enabling seemless radio control setups with new and existing Canon flashes being maliciously withheld ...

so incredibly wrong, so incredibly irksome, so incredibly short-sighted.

Radio receivers at a very reasonable price (think USD/Euro 99 !) would lead to really quick propagation of teh Canon wireless system in the market. It would still require purchase of at least an ST-E3 or one 600EX-RT ... and would make that purcase really worthwile. And if they like the radio-wireless experience, many users would sooner rather than later add additional 600EX-RT's (and other future radio-controlled flashes) to their setups.

Withholding simple receivers for 580 and 430 - at least for the version II's [if that is necessary to tie the entire setup into the camera menu system] and withholding firmware updates for pre-2012 bodies (5D 2, 7D) to also allow use of the mixed ETTL-manual "group" features on 600EX-RT/ST-E3 just makes a lot of people sit on the sidelines and wait to see whether Canon eventually gets its act together.

I for one, am holding off buying into the Canon radio-wireless system, until all components including receivers are out, prices have come down and a firmware update has finally enabled second curtain sync via the Canon wireless ETTL protocol and until my 7D gets a firmware upgrade that wil allow it to control radio-flashes exactly like 2012 EOS models (5D 3 and 1D X). If Canon charges outrageously I may pick up PWs or Phottix Odin to run my 580/II's and 430's radio-controlled. Until then I stick with optical control using the 7D's popup master-flash.

 

[AvTvM]

...it would be bad if they *only* could trigger Canon flashes and not dumb, cheaper ttl ones. Do you think Canon would do that to its valued customers?

Yes, I think Canon would very likely do exactly that...

THAT I would have no problem with. Original Canon radio receivers working seemlessly with Canon Speedlites 580EX/II and 430EX/II would be sufficient. Even I would consider it asking too much from Canon to expect them to include ETTL-control for Yongnuos. That task is up to Yongnuo et al - if they can reverse engineer it and make it work at significantly lower cost, fine. If not, then not.

But I do expect Canon to help users to tie their 580/430's [at least the Mk. II's!] into a Canon radio-controlled flash setup. After all, their clients may have purchased these flashes as recently as only days befor the 600EX-RT was announced or became available locally. Canon owes one to their clients on that count as far as I am concerned.

 

[FunPhotons]

Heck, I'd be happy if they just shipped the damn ST-E3

 

[MarkWebbPhoto]

I currently have 3 600EX-RT units and I am in love with them. I'm working up a review right now but here's a quick post for naysayers.

Shot with 5D MK II
Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II
Two 600EX-RT speedlites flashed at full power, I left them in the frame for you to see their exact location
Triggered with 1 600EX-RT on the hot-shoe
HSS was enabled
Shot in broad daylight
1/8000 sec, f/3.5, ISO 100

This setup took only a couple minutes and weighed far less than my Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS kit and was much smaller. The lights work great despite a few limitations of using an older model body.

 

[kdsand]

I currently have 3 600EX-RT units and I am in love with them. I'm working up a review right now but here's a quick post for naysayers.

Shot with 5D MK II
Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II
Two 600EX-RT speedlites flashed at full power, I left them in the frame for you to see their exact location
Triggered with 1 600EX-RT on the hot-shoe
HSS was enabled
Shot in broad daylight
1/8000 sec, f/3.5, ISO 100

This setup took only a couple minutes and weighed far less than my Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS kit and was much smaller. The lights work great despite a few limitations of using an older model body.

I'm sure it simplifies your kit/setup time.

Ouch could you have found a less photojenic model?

 

[FunPhotons]

Yep, I've got three as well, and a ST-E3 I've been waiting forever for. I'm really happy I waited until these guys, it's a small, light and flexible system that works really well. I can afford some expensive flashes, can't afford lugging lots of stuff around.

 

[MarkWebbPhoto]

I currently have 3 600EX-RT units and I am in love with them. I'm working up a review right now but here's a quick post for naysayers.

Shot with 5D MK II
Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II
Two 600EX-RT speedlites flashed at full power, I left them in the frame for you to see their exact location
Triggered with 1 600EX-RT on the hot-shoe
HSS was enabled
Shot in broad daylight
1/8000 sec, f/3.5, ISO 100

This setup took only a couple minutes and weighed far less than my Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed AS kit and was much smaller. The lights work great despite a few limitations of using an older model body.

I'm sure it simplifies your kit/setup time.

Ouch could you have found a less photojenic model?

Best to experiment with friends before working with clients with a new setup! I'll be sure to grab a hot babe next time, in the meanwhile I just have photos of my sweaty friend Sholten after he received a bad haircut haha.