New Canon Speedlites and ST-E3!

[Jamesy]

yep it does more groups

this guy has done a good review of the odins
http://smokingstrobes.com/odin

Thank you - I will check it out.

 

[V8Beast]

I love the odins the on screen controls are really cool and super easy to use
you can adjust power in 1/3 stop increments
and balance your A/B group power ratios really easy with the rear display
reliability and range is great too
1 button push to enable / disable HSS
its very clear from the way the odins are layed out they were designed to complement the canon flash system the best


I did look at the PW and radio poppers but for the price I think the odins take the win

What kind of range are you getting out of the Odins? The new 600EX is intriguing, but I'm put off by the advertised 100 foot range. I need a trigger than can work in open spaces outdoors at 150-200 feet.

Also, how is the build quality and durability of the Odins? They look much better than you're typical Hong Kong triggers, at least in the pictures.

 

[Jamesy]

They got an excellent in depth review here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157628093126883/?search=odin. I really like the notion of the new Canon system and if I was ready to drop 3k on speedlites I would dive right in. The Odin's (and other like them) OTOH offer a road-map to go RF wireless over TTL by not limiting me to 600EX-RF flash units. I will likely go with 600's over time and the nice thing is they would likely work with the Odin's too.

 

[alew3]

i really want to see a performance comparison between the 580 and 600 as on camera flash using a 70-200 f2.8 at 200 to see how the 200 zoom compares to the 105 max of the 580, That would be the only reason for me to consider this flash since i already have quite a few 580s and odins for remote

How do you like the Odin's? I would imagine you prefer them over the PW miniTT system and the Radio Poppers since you own them.

I love the odins the on screen controls are really cool and super easy to use
you can adjust power in 1/3 stop increments
and balance your A/B group power ratios really easy with the rear display
reliability and range is great too
1 button push to enable / disable HSS
its very clear from the way the odins are layed out they were designed to complement the canon flash system the best


I did look at the PW and radio poppers but for the price I think the odins take the win

Do you know if they fixed the pre-flash on manual exposure, so that it works with light meters such as Sekonic?

Also, can you confirm the 1/3 stop increments, because, what I read on the reviews they mentioned only 1 full stop increments!

Those are my only restrictions, that prevent me shifting from a PW TT5 / TT1 / AC3 solution, which misfire a lot and only do 1 stop increments. The only advantage left would be, that they are integrated with Sekonic to fire via radio.

thanks!


EDIT: to clarify, 1 stop increments in MANUAL mode, I know it does 1/3 increments in TTL

 

[SPG]

Do you know if they fixed the pre-flash on manual exposure, so that it works with light meters such as Sekonic?

Also, can you confirm the 1/3 stop increments, because, what I read on the reviews they mentioned only 1 full stop increments!

Those are my only restrictions, that prevent me shifting from a PW TT5 / TT1 / AC3 solution, which misfire a lot and only do 1 stop increments. The only advantage left would be, that they are integrated with Sekonic to fire via radio.

thanks!


EDIT: to clarify, 1 stop increments in MANUAL mode, I know it does 1/3 increments in TTL

The preflash on Manual is due to the fact that the flashes themselves are set to TTL even when the Odin has that flash set to Manual. By setting the flash to TTL, the Odin can talk to it and tell it what power to flash at. So basically, no...it's still going to preflash when the Odin is set to Manual. The way to overcome this is to just walk over to your flash and set it to manual and use the Odin like any other "dumb" trigger. If the flash is set to manual it won't preflash, and you'll also get those 1/3rd stop adjustments.

What kind of range are you getting out of the Odins? The new 600EX is intriguing, but I'm put off by the advertised 100 foot range. I need a trigger than can work in open spaces outdoors at 150-200 feet.

Also, how is the build quality and durability of the Odins? They look much better than you're typical Hong Kong triggers, at least in the pictures.

Build quality seems just fine to me. Not anything better or worse than typical camera gear. I've used them in the rain and they worked just fine. They've been kicking around in my backpack for weeks now and they still fire 100%.

I did a quick range test and they fired just fine up to about 300-400' for me...I don't know if they work well beyond that as I ran out of room to go further. I've been using them in much shorter distances like 100-150' regularly and they've been 100% reliable there. Like any 2.4ghz trigger (canon 600ex rt included), you should get good consistent results for a couple hundred feet, but they can still be susceptible to wifi interference. I haven't had that problem yet since I'm out in the woods, but I know it's a potential problem. The 600exrt has a nice feature where you can compare signal strengths to choose a good one. That's pretty cool.

 

[patz]

some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?

 

[V8Beast]

I did a quick range test and they fired just fine up to about 300-400' for me...I don't know if they work well beyond that as I ran out of room to go further. I've been using them in much shorter distances like 100-150' regularly and they've been 100% reliable there. Like any 2.4ghz trigger (canon 600ex rt included), you should get good consistent results for a couple hundred feet, but they can still be susceptible to wifi interference. I haven't had that problem yet since I'm out in the woods, but I know it's a potential problem. The 600exrt has a nice feature where you can compare signal strengths to choose a good one. That's pretty cool.

Thanks for the feedback. That's some very impressive range, and more than adequate for my needs. The Canon setup is nice, and I particularly like how you can use the STE3 and 600EX to remotely trigger the shutter, but I'm not sure I can justify the price premium over the Odins. I can pick up a 550EX, which has nearly as much power as a 600EX, for $200, throw on a $140 Odin receiver, and add an extra off-camera flash while retaining ETTL capability for $340. That's half the price one one 600EX.

 

[wickidwombat]

some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?

I would certainly hope so, also so you can mix it up with existing collections of 580 s

I'm looking forward to comparing this flash against the 580 II with on camera flash and 70-200
to see how good the 200 zoom is relative to the 105

 

[SPG]

some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?

I would certainly hope so, also so you can mix it up with existing collections of 580 s

I was under the impression that it could do either radio or IR, but not both at the same time.

 

[briansquibb]

some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?

I would certainly hope so, also so you can mix it up with existing collections of 580 s

I was under the impression that it could do either radio or IR, but not both at the same time.

It would be interesting to see what could be achieved to drive 580's through PW/Odins whilst at the same time drive the 600s through radio

 

[patz]

some sites say Speedlite 600EX-RT has infrared wireless function too. So, can I use it with my 600D?

I would certainly hope so, also so you can mix it up with existing collections of 580 s

I was under the impression that it could do either radio or IR, but not both at the same time.

It's ok not to do both at the same time. I don't have any flash yet. I just want to buy one for my 600D and hope I'll be able to use wireless function.

 

[FunPhotons]

Price doesn't bother me. Trying to make good photos is a pain, lugging equip around, lens, filter, flash, gel selection ... I've held off buying a PW system because it's clunky and doesn't fully integrate with my cameras capabilities. The Canon system is clean, simple and will work flawlessly. Even gels - I hate stupid tape or velcro solutions, finally there is a nice holder and a clean way to manage them.

I saw a comparison somewhere of the new Canon against some 3rd party wireless, and the Canon came out $75 more expensive for a three flash with ST-E3-RT solution (and that was before the ST-E3 last minute price drop).

So I preordered three flashes and the ST-E3-RT.

 

[briansquibb]

Price doesn't bother me. Trying to make good photos is a pain, lugging equip around, lens, filter, flash, gel selection ... I've held off buying a PW system because it's clunky and doesn't fully integrate with my cameras capabilities. The Canon system is clean, simple and will work flawlessly. Even gels - I hate stupid tape or velcro solutions, finally there is a nice holder and a clean way to manage them.

I saw a comparison somewhere of the new Canon against some 3rd party wireless, and the Canon came out $75 more expensive for a three flash with ST-E3-RT solution (and that was before the ST-E3 last minute price drop).

So I preordered three flashes and the ST-E3-RT.

In what way does the PW not integrate with your system?

 

[FunPhotons]

In what way does the PW not integrate with your system?

My understanding is that I cannot fully control the speed lights from the back of the camera, as I can with a Canon flash on a Canon body using the full menu system. I would have to walk around and change settings by hand, which would slow down my workflow too much. The new Speedlights also have the slaves communicating back to the master when they have recharged, with a friendly beep to tell you when they're ready (hurrah! no more black frames). Finally, while the PW have a new version out that is smaller and more streamlined I believe, when I last considered it I thought they were way too large and clumsy on the top of my camera.

If I'm wrong on any of these particulars please let me know. I'm not trying to bash PW or any 3rd party trigger - just saying that I've held out for the fully integrated Canon solution.

 

[briansquibb]

In what way does the PW not integrate with your system?

My understanding is that I cannot fully control the speed lights from the back of the camera, as I can with a Canon flash on a Canon body using the full menu system. I would have to walk around and change settings by hand, which would slow down my workflow too much. The new Speedlights also have the slaves communicating back to the master when they have recharged, with a friendly beep to tell you when they're ready (hurrah! no more black frames). Finally, while the PW have a new version out that is smaller and more streamlined I believe, when I last considered it I thought they were way too large and clumsy on the top of my camera.

If I'm wrong on any of these particulars please let me know. I'm not trying to bash PW or any 3rd party trigger - just saying that I've held out for the fully integrated Canon solution.

Are you talking manual flash then?

With eTTL there is full control when putting a master in the hotshoe (such as a 580EXII or ST-E2. Full flash compensation is available that goes to all slaves automatically). I believe this is the same with the Odins.

The recently relased PW Plus III is not an eTTL controller

 

[FunPhotons]

Are you talking manual flash then?

With eTTL there is full control when putting a master in the hotshoe (such as a 580EXII or ST-E2. Full flash compensation is available that goes to all slaves automatically). I believe this is the same with the Odins.

The recently relased PW Plus III is not an eTTL controller

My understanding is that HSS isn't available, manual isn't available, and I wasn't sure about ETTL. Sounds like the latest isn't eTTL. I don't know about flash exposure compensation and the other bits.

The only thing that doesn't work with Canon is 2nd curtain sync over wireless - and odd omission. I don't think there are technical reasons preventing it, but since Canon doesn't support it I have to assume there is some timing problem or other.

 

[briansquibb]

Are you talking manual flash then?

With eTTL there is full control when putting a master in the hotshoe (such as a 580EXII or ST-E2. Full flash compensation is available that goes to all slaves automatically). I believe this is the same with the Odins.

The recently relased PW Plus III is not an eTTL controller

My understanding is that HSS isn't available, manual isn't available, and I wasn't sure about ETTL. Sounds like the latest isn't eTTL. I don't know about flash exposure compensation and the other bits.

The only thing that doesn't work with Canon is 2nd curtain sync over wireless - and odd omission. I don't think there are technical reasons preventing it, but since Canon doesn't support it I have to assume there is some timing problem or other.

HSS is definitely available with PW - it is totally automatically and is an improvement on the Canon HSS. Manual is the same as the infared system. Also the PW can fire a manual slave (such as a studio light)

Second curtain does work with PW

I am using PW miniTT1 and flexTT5.

I believe Odins have the same functionality at a lower price.

 

[FunPhotons]

HSS is definitely available with PW - it is totally automatically and is an improvement on the Canon HSS. Manual is the same as the infared system. Also the PW can fire a manual slave (such as a studio light)

Second curtain does work with PW

Interesting, Syl Arena has stated unequivocally that HSS is only available with an all Canon system, maybe I misunderstood him.

I read through their theory for improved performance. I've noticed that the Canon engineers are extremely conservative, a trait that I can appreciate being I'm an engineer is a similar field (i.e. my customers are, shall we say, intolerant of errors on my part). So they also under spec and over deliver. Since they bracket HSS with guard bands I expect they want to make sure that you get the shot - the flash tube is warmed up before the shutter opens. The PW guys are willing to live closer to the edge.

No matter, Canon RT is still less equip, lower profile (wireless built into flash and eventually built into bodies I'm sure), and I've heard a rumor from a Canon rep that they'll be releasing receivers for legacy flashes and studio strobes, plus of course the recycle report back. I'm glad I waited.

 

[briansquibb]

HSS is definitely available with PW - it is totally automatically and is an improvement on the Canon HSS. Manual is the same as the infared system. Also the PW can fire a manual slave (such as a studio light)

Second curtain does work with PW

Interesting, Syl Arena has stated unequivocally that HSS is only available with an all Canon system, maybe I misunderstood him.

I read through their theory for improved performance. I've noticed that the Canon engineers are extremely conservative, a trait that I can appreciate being I'm an engineer is a similar field (i.e. my customers are, shall we say, intolerant of errors on my part). So they also under spec and over deliver. Since they bracket HSS with guard bands I expect they want to make sure that you get the shot - the flash tube is warmed up before the shutter opens. The PW guys are willing to live closer to the edge.

No matter, Canon RT is still less equip, lower profile (wireless built into flash and eventually built into bodies I'm sure), and I've heard a rumor from a Canon rep that they'll be releasing receivers for legacy flashes and studio strobes, plus of course the recycle report back. I'm glad I waited.

I have a stack of 580EX/580EXII so to move to all Canon 600 RT would mean a big hit and high cost. I hope you are right about the inclusion of legacy speedlights - that would potentially make life easier in the future

 

[FunPhotons]

I have a stack of 580EX/580EXII so to move to all Canon 600 RT would mean a big hit and high cost. I hope you are right about the inclusion of legacy speedlights - that would potentially make life easier in the future

I hear you, keeping up with the technology curve can be painful! I've just got a 430EX, a 530-IIex and I was planning on buying a third and final flash when they did the latest upgrade - and it happens that they didn't include mixing optical and RF wireless. Purely a software omission I'm sure for marketing purposes.

At any rate I pretty much decided to go whole hog and get the three 600's and digital controller. For the times I want more flashes I can go optical, futz with line of site, hotshoe cord and use all five. If they do release a legacy receiver then I'll buy two for my older flashes.

I've been surprised before, but I think/hope these flashes will last a long, long time.