NEW FF Body that is able to take EF-S Lens

[knocker]

Hi all
OK I might be missing the point here but is it not possible to invent/build from scratch a "FULL FRAME" body that can use both EF-S and EF lenses? I understand about the mirror clearance and all that, but is it just not possible or is it a marketing issue?

Your thoughts please

 

[maxxevv]

Its gonna be a lot of compromises if you want it that way.

Firstly, to clear the mirror/prism, your viewfinder would be something in the range of 60-70% view.

Secondly, to clear the mirror/prism, your AF array would have to be as small as an APS-C one. Meaning it covers barely 1/3 or even 1/4 of the sensor area.

Thirdly, its probably more sensible to engineer an APS-H sensor camera that can take EF-S lenses instead. Since its just a minor tweak as someone has experimented on the 1DmkIII some years back. (Think it was the EF-S 10-22 lens ?? ) And probably make it at a more attractive price point for EF-S/ APS-C upgraders.

 

[VirtualRain]

It's silly if you think about it... The image circle of an EF-S lens is not large enough to fill a FF sensor. Even if you could make it work mechanically it will look like you have massive black vignetting on all your images, forcing you to crop the image to what a crop sensor would produce.

 

[SpareImp]

I thought they made the EF-S lenses so that they could make them more compact than those who work on FF. Wouldn't it be kind of backwards to make a FF-camera that's compatible?

 

[wickidwombat]

It's silly if you think about it... The image circle of an EF-S lens is not large enough to fill a FF sensor. Even if you could make it work mechanically it will look like you have massive black vignetting on all your images, forcing you to crop the image to what a crop sensor would produce.

kind of like using a tamron lens....

 

[TTMartin]

I most certainly can be done with a mirrorless full frame camera.
As for if it makes any sense, Nikon does it, so I guess that answers the question.
Depending on your views of Nikon that could mean it is the worlds best idea, or it makes no sense at all.

 

[paul13walnut5]

As for if it makes any sense, Nikon does it, so I guess that answers the question.

Nikon does it, but the camera crops when it detects DX lenses, so really you are worse off as you are back to square 1 with the field of view, but your cameras resolution has dropped by 60%.

Kind of having a D800 and turning it into a D7000.

Nothing wrong with the D7000 of course, but if you have a D700 then it becomes more like a D70...

The canon system is not ideal, I don't quite understand why Sigma and Tamron can make UWA lenses for APS-C cameras that retain the AF mount and don't break FF cameras.

In fact, thats your answer, buy off-brand DC Di lenses etc, mount them on your full frame and crop...

Makes perfect sense, unlike say just using the very good APS-C cameras the EF-s lenses are designed for.

 

[Hillsilly]

I'm sure its possible. As mentioned, Nikon cameras can do it and I'm sure Canon engineers are just as capable. With Nikon, If you mount a DX lens (similar to EF-S) the camera camera recognises this and works in "crop" mode. Its not ideal as you potentially lose a lot of megapixels. But otherwise, everything works fine.

If Canon, can't get things to work properly, due to mirror sizes, lens element to sensor distances etc then there's an easy solution. The camera just works in mirror-up mode with EF-S lenses. Rather than using the viewfinder, you can autofocus and frame via liveview. Its really not that hard. In fact, this would work really well with the new touch screens. While there are some historical reasons why they weren't compatible, I suspect that some of the innovations seen in the 650D will be seen in the next FF and this will give the camera the data processing capabilty to mount EF-S lenses. If Canon doesn't do this, the decision will be purely sales driven. It forces people to but new lenses if they move from APS-C to FF.

 

[preppyak]

If Canon doesn't do this, the decision will be purely sales driven. It forces people to but new lenses if they move from APS-C to FF.

Or it will be driven by Canon not wanting users confused about why their lenses cause a huge black circle around their image on their $2000+ camera. Gonna be a lot of pissed off users when they find out "using" an EF-S lens means this

Besides, if you're putting $2k+ into your camera body...what EF-S lens would you even want to mount on it? I guess I could see someone wanting to use the 10-22 or 17-55...but, Canon make full-frame versions at the same price points basically (17-40 and 24-70)

 

[unfocused]

I kind of hesitate to bring this up as I am bored with the whole APS-H thing, but I am curious. Has anyone mounted the Tokina 11-16 on a 1D? Does it vignette at the wide end?

 

[edawg]

Putting an EF-S 10-20mm lens on a full frame would give one heck of a field of view. Definitely would be cool, but not possible optically.

 

[wickidwombat]

I kind of hesitate to bring this up as I am bored with the whole APS-H thing, but I am curious. Has anyone mounted the Tokina 11-16 on a 1D? Does it vignette at the wide end?

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=997698

this thread indicates vignetting shows up at about 12mm

 

[briansquibb]

The 8-15 vignettes at 8mm : : :

 

[wickidwombat]

The 8-15 vignettes at 8mm : : :

LOL

is it a progressive change from rectangle at 15mm to circle at 8mm?

 

[briansquibb]

The 8-15 vignettes at 8mm : : :

LOL

is it a progressive change from rectangle at 15mm to circle at 8mm?

Yes It is the inbetweens that give the best artistic effects.

Makes me laugh when the APS-C talk about their ultra wide angle lens - this is lens is 8mm whereas the APS-C is the equivalent of 16. OK it is a fisheye - but there is the 14mm .....

This was taken with the 1D4@10mm

 

[hyles]

EF-S lenses where created with the back lens element projecting more inside mirror box. This allows light to reach the sensor more vertically, But it needed on aps-c camera a smaller mirror. Even if electronically an ef-s lens is able to work with a FF body, it is impossible to mount it because the plastic ring on the back of the lens that would hit the mirror. Someone has removed this plastic on some ef-s lens to mount and use them on FF, but you would end up with loosing a lot of megapixel cropping images.
I think that if you want to use ef-s lens you better have a crop sensor camera. Even if nikon allows compatibility of their FX camera with aps-c lenses, i think it is quite a useless option.
Diego

 

[wickidwombat]

i think it is quite a useless option.

it's not entirely useless
if the reduced file size of the images can give a faster FPS burst and deeper sustained buffer
ie the camera detects the lens and only processes an APS-C sized image from the sensor resulting in smaller data for each image but can still use the full processing power this sort of function would be pretty handy for action shooters I would think

 

[hyles]

i think it is quite a useless option.

it's not entirely useless
if the reduced file size of the images can give a faster FPS burst and deeper sustained buffer
ie the camera detects the lens and only processes an APS-C sized image from the sensor resulting in smaller data for each image but can still use the full processing power this sort of function would be pretty handy for action shooters I would think

Off course you will have a faster camera then the FF, but i can't see the point buying 3300 euros, 22mp camera to use it as a 12mp aps-c camera, when you can save money with a 18mp very fast 7D. Thinking of nikon, if i wanted to use my aps-c lenses i would rather buy d7000/d300s than any FF used in crop mode.
Diego

 

[Neeneko]

I'm sure its possible. As mentioned, Nikon cameras can do it and I'm sure Canon engineers are just as capable. With Nikon, If you mount a DX lens (similar to EF-S) the camera camera recognises this and works in "crop" mode. Its not ideal as you potentially lose a lot of megapixels. But otherwise, everything works fine.

*nods* at which point, you might as well just take regular FF pictures and crop them in post. I always thought the Nikon thing was a bit of a dirty trick, kinda like how Canon quietly changes settings at low f stops to make the user think they are getting extra light... it is giving the user what they visually expect, sorta, but only because you are not giving them what they mechanically expect.

 

[briansquibb]

i think it is quite a useless option.

it's not entirely useless
if the reduced file size of the images can give a faster FPS burst and deeper sustained buffer
ie the camera detects the lens and only processes an APS-C sized image from the sensor resulting in smaller data for each image but can still use the full processing power this sort of function would be pretty handy for action shooters I would think

Off course you will have a faster camera then the FF, but i can't see the point buying 3300 euros, 22mp camera to use it as a 12mp aps-c camera, when you can save money with a 18mp very fast 7D. Thinking of nikon, if i wanted to use my aps-c lenses i would rather buy d7000/d300s than any FF used in crop mode.
Diego

That is what the D800 does