New imagePROGRAPH PRO printers announced

[LDS]

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/canon_launches_new_large_format_printers.do?utm_content=bufferf2d87&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[Click]

Thanks for posting.

 

[privatebydesign]

Very interested in the price of the 2000, having just thrown away a sub 300 print Epson 7900 due to a terminally clogged head I won't buy another wide format printer I can't buy a replacement head for.

 

[frankenbeans]

Very interested in the price of the 2000, having just thrown away a sub 300 print Epson 7900 due to a terminally clogged head I won't buy another wide format printer I can't buy a replacement head for.

Some advice for you (I've had 2 Epson 9800's, a Canon 6100 and 8400)..
I'm not sure about the 7900, but later model printers like my Canon 8400 will take very good care of themselves with regularly scheduled self-maintenance. The key is-- You have to leave the machine turned on. It will occasionally spring to life to agitate the inks and check it's nozzles.
The old Epson 9800's were not so advanced so no reason to leave those on. Just don't leave them unused for weeks at a time.

Oh and if you look hard enough, and have the nerve to take it apart, you can change the head on the older Epson's. I did it successfully on one of my 9800's. Found a new head on eBay and then stumbled across the Epson service software online somewhere.

Another factor for print heads is humidity. Print heads don't dry out as much in a more humid environment.

 

[privatebydesign]

Very interested in the price of the 2000, having just thrown away a sub 300 print Epson 7900 due to a terminally clogged head I won't buy another wide format printer I can't buy a replacement head for.

Some advice for you (I've had 2 Epson 9800's, a Canon 6100 and 8400)..
I'm not sure about the 7900, but later model printers like my Canon 8400 will take very good care of themselves with regularly scheduled self-maintenance. The key is-- You have to leave the machine turned on. It will occasionally spring to life to agitate the inks and check it's nozzles.
The old Epson 9800's were not so advanced so no reason to leave those on. Just don't leave them unused for weeks at a time.

Oh and if you look hard enough, and have the nerve to take it apart, you can change the head on the older Epson's. I did it successfully on one of my 9800's. Found a new head on eBay and then stumbled across the Epson service software online somewhere.

Another factor for print heads is humidity. Print heads don't dry out as much in a more humid environment.

I know every trick in the Epson X900 book, there is even a website dedicated to them and their issues. I have changed the heads on 7900 and 4900's, the real problem is sourcing the correct head, Epson don't retail them and via China they run $1,200+.

Even the 4900, which I have several thousand prints through, gets clogs that can't be cleared via the software, you just have to use them until they either sort themselves out or you are brave enough to take the head off and clean it, and then replace it without damaging it. Leaving it on makes no difference, auto maintenance makes no difference, leaving it on with the menu illuminated makes no difference, printing with it regularly makes no difference, the X900 are fatally flawed and the newer Px000 printers use the same head. The heads are not user replaceable (and Epson refuse to supply them) and the firmware does not allow remapping of blocked nozzles, one blocked nozzle and you get striped prints. Canon print heads are user replaceable and readily available and they have the ability to remap blocked nozzles. I will never buy or recommend another Epson printer.

That is why I am very interested in the Canon 2000.

 

[RGF]

I have had clog problems on a 4880. Problem is the summer. I will print from Sept - May but come summer I am out shooting. I don't print much then. 4880 had a bad clog which never got really cleared. Occasionally I will get a clogged head if I leave the beast for a week. I figure every clog goes through 10-30 ml of ink. That is 10-30% of 110ML (spread across all 8 colors) but that means $5-15 per head cleaning. ARGH!!

 

[Aglet]

I'm always interested in cool new gear but AFA my Epson 9900... I've left it powered off for up to 5 months with no significant problems. Doesn't take long to get every nozzle firing for a run.
It's not the humidity that's the problem.

 

[privatebydesign]

I'm always interested in cool new gear but AFA my Epson 9900... I've left it powered off for up to 5 months with no significant problems. Doesn't take long to get every nozzle firing for a run.
It's not the humidity that's the problem.

You will get problems long before the printer wears out, they are simply not designed for light use, Epson say the same thing, the real issue is when they do break you can't get them fixed because you are not allowed or able to buy the parts.

 

[ExodistPhotography]

I would really like to know the price of the Pro2k as well. I was hoping to get the pro1k later this year, but would like to see the price to see if I can justify the cost difference.

 

[Aglet]

.. the real issue is when they do break you can't get them fixed because you are not allowed or able to buy the parts.

yes, that is a major PiTA.
der otta be a law against that, especially after the machine's beyond warranty.

 

[keithcooper]

New PRO printers

Talking to Canon UK about this, there is no firm ETA, and as yet no pricing info they can pass on.

The good bit is that a PRO-2000 will appear some time later this year for me to review This is an interesting time for printing, in that I've got a (very nice) Epson P7000 on loan at the moment for a review, and Canon have told me that a PRO-1000 will be here 'soon'.

I should have the P7000 review written in a few weeks - if anyone has any specific question, please do let me know via the Northlight site email.

It seems that once again, a Canon large printer announcement wasn't entirely coordinated worldwide, so there is not much info at the moment.

I'll be adding anything I find at http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/printers/canon_pro2000-4000.html until I get one to review.

 

[Breacher1]

Wish the pricing on the 4000 was about $1K less............

These are meant to be high-end printers for studio-grade prints, so they come with pro prices. The imagePROGRAF PRO-2000 will start at $2,995 (or $3,795 with the Multifunction Roll System), while the PRO-4000 will start at $5,995, tacking on an extra $1,000 for the Roll System. The imagePROGRAF PRO-4000S will cost $4,995, while the big daddy PRO-6000S will cost a cool $9,995.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/canon-expands-imageprograf-pro-series-with-four-new-models-for-the-fine-art-photographic-and-production-signage-markets-300231766.html

 

[privatebydesign]

Wish the pricing on the 4000 was about $1K less............

These are meant to be high-end printers for studio-grade prints, so they come with pro prices. The imagePROGRAF PRO-2000 will start at $2,995 (or $3,795 with the Multifunction Roll System), while the PRO-4000 will start at $5,995, tacking on an extra $1,000 for the Roll System. The imagePROGRAF PRO-4000S will cost $4,995, while the big daddy PRO-6000S will cost a cool $9,995.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/canon-expands-imageprograf-pro-series-with-four-new-models-for-the-fine-art-photographic-and-production-signage-markets-300231766.html

$2,995 sounds competitive to me for the 2000, I'm not fussed about the second roll at this point, roll on those reviews...........

 

[privatebydesign]

I got the Pro-2000 it arrived today. $2095 after instant and mail in rebates.

 

[privatebydesign]

I got the Pro-2000 it arrived today. $2095 after instant and mail in rebates.

I'm looking forward to hear your impression on how well it works..... I am searching for a new printer myself.

Well I am 100 or so prints into ownership of the Pro-2000. It is a great printer, vastly more reliable than the four Epson wide format pro printers (two 4900 and two 7900's) that I have worked with. I am still on a learning curve with it and there are many functions I am still not using but will as I get into it more.

So what do I like about it so far?
1: Roll paper control is effortless, much better feeding, unloading and reloading than the Epson 7900, apart from the spindles which are an Epson 7900 highlight.
2: Shadow detail in prints is much finer than the Epson. I found the Epson print files needed complicated masked curves layers to retain deep shadow detail, the Canon doesn't.
3: I have found it much easier to dial in specific heavily saturated colors. Flower images particularly mauves and deep blues are much easier.
4: The roll paper remaining barcode also prints the media type and length left in readable form so you can tell what you actually have, this is a nice touch. The Epson implementation doesn't.
5: If you load a cut sheet after using roll paper the roll paper retreats back to where it doesn't get marked by the rollers.
6: Cut sheets are easy to use. I use 8.5x11 cut sheets for test prints for virtually every print so that is nice!
7: The Accounting Manager utility, if accurate, is really very nice. Even if it isn't accurate you can still get a host of very good information from it.

What am I not too sure about at this point?
1: The greens are different! Not better or worse, they just take a bit more care to get to the exact hue.
2: Roll paper used is printed in a massive bar code the NSA could read from space! This loses you a few inches of paper every time you swap the roll out so it makes job management a consideration. The Epson implementation is not visible and loses you no paper.
3: If you don't load a cut sheet after using roll paper the roll paper stays where it gets dented by the rollers.
4: Gloss differential Now this probably isn't fair because I haven't played with the Chrome Optimizer settings yet and I am using Epson paper in it with a custom profile. Thanks Keith at Northlight for that. But I am getting a gloss differential especially visible on big prints in the darkest tones. I need to investigate this more.
5: Software, while the printing is great and some of the Utilities have some use they are not cohesive or integrated and don't have logical controls. For example the Layout program is much more limited than it should be to be useful. Also I had some issues loading it and getting it all working, especially the PS PlugIn as it wouldn't 'see' my current version of PS but kept finding a version on a backup disc.
6: The warning light is a constantly shining joke.
7: Ink prices, except of the 700ml cartridges, are much more than Epson ink per ml.

So would I recommend the printer? Wholeheartedly, particularly to photographers who truthfully won't be printing every day, I have had very bad experiences with Epson with regards reliability when the printers are not used constantly. I have already left the Canon switched off for a month due to travel and it fired up and printed a clean nozzle check first go on my return. There are some real plusses and minuses to both but at this point I am much happier with the Canon than my previous printers.

Here are a couple of 24" x 36" prints ready for a show in January.

 

[privatebydesign]

Here is a follow up on the printer. So far so good!

I have been using the accounting software to keep an eye on costs, I have replaced one of the starter cartridges and it ran out after 35.377ml of ink on paper use and 166 ft² of actual printing output, the accounting software does not include ink used for maintenance or aborted or incomplete prints nor the initial charging.

One huge benefit over the Epson printers is that even when the cartridge runs dry the printer will keep printing, this means if you are not in a particularly high turnover environment you can wait until the cartridge actually runs out of ink before ordering replacements but still print.

One thing the accounting software does is change all previous values if you put in a different cost figure. My replacement inks were less per ml than the originals but when I entered the new cost it changed the costings for all the previous jobs. So I reset it and exported the first 120 prints as a .csv then did the same with the rest, I then put both .csv's into a spreadsheet to get more accurate overall totals and breakdowns. I am now up to 135 prints and if anybody would like the numbers spreadsheet to look at just message me.

Interesting takes so far?
A 24" x 36" print costs $5-7 of ink and paper. Around $1 per ft².
If you load a sheet after using the roll the roll doesn't get roller marks on it or get registration marks printed on it, so I always load a sheet of paper when I finish printing.
Loading roll paper is so much easier than Epson's.
Loading sheet paper isn't as easy as Epson's.
I've ended up getting genuine Canon ink cheaper than Epson's which I used to get a pretty good price on. I am paying $0.26 ml.
I have had 100% issue free printing so far. I travel a lot and it sits with no power to it for weeks at a time yet fires up first time every time so far.
A new head for it is $650 from B&H and I could get one overnight and fit it myself effortlessly, a huge contrast to the comparable Epson's.
I find the processing needed to get a print is much less than I needed to do for the Epson's particularly in shadow detail, full tonality B&W prints blow Epson ease of processing and output out of the water. This makes printing sessions noticeably faster and easier.
Ink use is very unbalanced, as expected, Photo Black is the heaviest, then Chrome Optimizer (on auto setting), then Gray, the rest are less than half those three.

Hope this follow up is interesting for anybody searching for info on the Pro-2000. As I have said before I have owned and used multiple high end 17" and 24" printers and this Canon one is the only one I'd recommend without reservation. Though I am past the honeymoon stage I am still only 6 months in.

 

[Sporgon]

Those look like two wonderful horse portraits Private, love the lighting and colour. What paper are you using ?

 

[privatebydesign]

Thanks Sporgon,

I use Epson Premium Lustre 260, mainly for historical reasons, it is a carry over from when I used Epson printers. I really like the finish for general printing but the truth is it isn't heavy enough for the bigger prints, it creases far too easily once you go over 20"-24"

I asked Kieth at North Light to make me a profile for the Canon printer and Epson paper when he had a test Pro-2000, very generously he did and will forward that custom profile to anyone who emails him.

Lighting is simple, Caribbean sun under exposed several stops and three 600-EX-RT's ganged to light the horses, they are actually rescue Paso Fino's at an amazing center in the British Virgin Islands.