New to photography.

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I started out with my first Rebel DSLR in or around 2002. I quickly found that I had wasted a lot of money by buying low cost lenses that were not fast enough to use indoors.

The two lenses you have should work well, and once you are sure that you are going to stick with photography, then have a plan and need for each piece of glass you purchase. You can keep a good lens for 10 or 15 years, but bodies are updated frequently.

You and only you know how well you respond to self training, or casual help from others versus professional training. You might be the type of person who would benefit from a camera club, or attending night or weekend classes at a local community college.

As others have noted, processing images after they are captured is a very critical element. You can shoot jpeg images and be happy, but after you learn to process raw files you will look back at your jpegs and wish they were raw images. You can do much more in the way of editing and improving raw images.

I'm the type who learns from doing it myself. I'm retired and can spend a huge amount of time taking and processing thousands of images. I also have a online store, and produce my own images for that. Each of us is different, so look at the options offered in the forum and ask yourself which type of training will get you to where you want to be with the time and resources available.

I see video production as even more time consuming and resource hungry than still photography. I've produced videos, edited them, burned them to DVD's and even printed on the DVD with a inkjet printer to produce a nice looking product. After the time involved with a expensive camera, the cost of Adobe Premiere, I decided that it was not something I wanted to do. I had hoped to make short videos to advertise my products, but I nixed that idea. But, if Video is your thing, stick to it, it takes time but you'll get there.

 

[cervantes]

So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )

I bought it with 18-55mm lens
Later on I bought 50mm f/1.8 II lens
I also have a tripod.

I hardly touched the camera since 2014. I even forgot how to use it's menu and buttons.

My friend who happens to be photographer helped me today to remember what ISO, Aperture, Shutter speed are used for. My main goal is to just enjoy my time photographing whatever is in my mind. I like photographing animals, landscapes, astrophotography, nature and black & white photos.

My questions are:-
Are photography schools/courses worth it or should I just learn online and self teach myself ?
Should I improve my equipment or should I stick to my current equipment till I teach myself more and improve ?
Should I atleast buy better lens ? I'm not good in knowing differences of lenses buy I'm teaching myself and Googling.

My budget is 2000 USD however soon as I get a job ( that's in Oct 2016 ) my budget will be much higher.

There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:

Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.

 

[slclick]

So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )

I bought it with 18-55mm lens
Later on I bought 50mm f/1.8 II lens
I also have a tripod.

I hardly touched the camera since 2014. I even forgot how to use it's menu and buttons.

My friend who happens to be photographer helped me today to remember what ISO, Aperture, Shutter speed are used for. My main goal is to just enjoy my time photographing whatever is in my mind. I like photographing animals, landscapes, astrophotography, nature and black & white photos.

My questions are:-
Are photography schools/courses worth it or should I just learn online and self teach myself ?
Should I improve my equipment or should I stick to my current equipment till I teach myself more and improve ?
Should I atleast buy better lens ? I'm not good in knowing differences of lenses buy I'm teaching myself and Googling.

My budget is 2000 USD however soon as I get a job ( that's in Oct 2016 ) my budget will be much higher.

There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:

Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.

"Stop. Don't say a word until you show me your portfolio"


Never is a bit extreme. How about never take advice from people who speak in absolutes regarding a mixed format which fuses art and science.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:
Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.

"Stop. Don't say a word until you show me your portfolio"
Never is a bit extreme. How about never take advice from people who speak in absolutes regarding a mixed format which fuses art and science.

I agree with both statements. The first statement is blunt and abrasive but it is based in truth.

I think it's important to consider what style you prefer and what your own goals are. This can only be learned with experience and it evolves over time. Look at a lot of images everywhere and consider what you like about them. With that knowledge you can seek out advice or inspiration from the creators of your preferred styles which are in line with your own goals. For example, starting out I loved the ultra wide angle work that Nevada Wier did. She's been all over the world for over 30 years and her beautiful images told stories and conveyed a lot of information about the scene. Her style matched my goals of capturing our scout troop's activities and events with the scouts as the focus. She teaches classes and has a few books out. She even sold me my first 16-35 f/2.8 lens.

OTOH, if you run across someone with a big Canon camera and lens anonymously and they start telling you how to take "better" pictures, take that advice with a grain of salt in case the person is more clueless than you are. Some folks have more ego than experience. There are a lot of "experts" out there with nice equipment and lots of enthusiasm but they have no patience for actually learning the craft and building their skill set as photographers. For them it's just about the gear. It happens... a lot. And some even get paid for it.

Once you know more, you'll begin to see this situation fairly often (esp on the Internet) and recognize it pretty quickly. This is why the more experienced photographers typically love to share their knowledge. No one wants a person struggling to improve have to suffer if sharing their hard earned knowledge can help someone else enjoy a common journey. And it is a journey.

 

[slclick]

There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:
Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.

"Stop. Don't say a word until you show me your portfolio"
Never is a bit extreme. How about never take advice from people who speak in absolutes regarding a mixed format which fuses art and science.

I agree with both statements. The first statement is blunt and abrasive but it is based in truth.

I think it's important to consider what style you prefer and what your own goals are. This can only be learned with experience and it evolves over time. Look at a lot of images everywhere and consider what you like about them. With that knowledge you can seek out advice or inspiration from the creators of your preferred styles which are in line with your own goals. For example, starting out I loved the ultra wide angle work that Nevada Wier did. She's been all over the world for over 30 years and her beautiful images told stories and conveyed a lot of information about the scene. Her style matched my goals of capturing our scout troop's activities and events with the scouts as the focus. She teaches classes and has a few books out. She even sold me my first 16-35 f/2.8 lens.

OTOH, if you run across someone with a big Canon camera and lens anonymously and they start telling you how to take "better" pictures, take that advice with a grain of salt in case the person is more clueless than you are. Some folks have more ego than experience. There are a lot of "experts" out there with nice equipment and lots of enthusiasm but they have no patience for actually learning the craft and building their skill set as photographers. For them it's just about the gear. It happens... a lot. And some even get paid for it.

Once you know more, you'll begin to see this situation fairly often (esp on the Internet) and recognize it pretty quickly. This is why the more experienced photographers typically love to share their knowledge. No one wants a person struggling to improve have to suffer if sharing their hard earned knowledge can help someone else enjoy a common journey. And it is a journey.

A journey. That is a very succinct way to put it. Thanks.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Remember... a camera is to a photographer what pots and pans are to a cook. When was the last time you complimented a cook on how good their food was only after seeing their pots and pans? The photographer makes the images, not the camera. A good photographer can make great images with any gear he has if he understands photography. The best gear in the world won't help a poor photographer.

When you see a breathtaking image anywhere, does it matter what gear was used to make it? Does anyone really care? Do you hear folks saying, "Gee, I love that image! It's so captivating and amazing! I wonder if the camera was any good?"

It's the photographer that makes the image, not the camera. And what camera is best? The one you have with you. (The one you can afford and know how to use.)

 

[Pookie]

So I bought my first DSLR Canon 600D/T3i in 2013. My main reason to buying it was to make movies ( passion was filmmaking )( Now focusing on photography )

I bought it with 18-55mm lens
Later on I bought 50mm f/1.8 II lens
I also have a tripod.

I hardly touched the camera since 2014. I even forgot how to use it's menu and buttons.

My friend who happens to be photographer helped me today to remember what ISO, Aperture, Shutter speed are used for. My main goal is to just enjoy my time photographing whatever is in my mind. I like photographing animals, landscapes, astrophotography, nature and black & white photos.

My questions are:-
Are photography schools/courses worth it or should I just learn online and self teach myself ?
Should I improve my equipment or should I stick to my current equipment till I teach myself more and improve ?
Should I atleast buy better lens ? I'm not good in knowing differences of lenses buy I'm teaching myself and Googling.

My budget is 2000 USD however soon as I get a job ( that's in Oct 2016 ) my budget will be much higher.

There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:

Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.

This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.

I've never meet a single professional or hobbyist photographer that refuses to show a portfolio. NEVER. Even if they keep a private personal port they always have secondary ports to show their work. This should be the litmus test for most here. There is a reason why having 10k posts earns you the name "CR Geek" not a photographer.

BTW. Loved your 5D3 AF article Cervantes... great read and images.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I wish I lived near Pookie. He would have to chase me off constantly to keep me from lurking around trying to be his assistant. I like his work and it looks like he has a lot of fun doing it! I suspect I could learn a thing or two from him except that I would be pretty distracted by some of his beautiful (or handsome) subjects.

In short, any photographer could do a lot worse than having Pookie's portfolio. Very nice to browse!

 

[takesome1]

This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.

I've never meet a single professional or hobbyist photographer that refuses to show a portfolio. NEVER. Even if they keep a private personal port they always have secondary ports to show their work. This should be the litmus test for most here. There is a reason why having 10k posts earns you the name "CR Geek" not a photographer.

Showing your portfolio is great and I do it on other sites.
But this is a tough group that are often hostile.
Showing it to this crowd is just opening yourself up to abuse.
Even if you demonstrate the point you are making your picture will be picked and torn apart for every other reason the group can find.

 

[slclick]

This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.

I've never meet a single professional or hobbyist photographer that refuses to show a portfolio. NEVER. Even if they keep a private personal port they always have secondary ports to show their work. This should be the litmus test for most here. There is a reason why having 10k posts earns you the name "CR Geek" not a photographer.

Showing your portfolio is great and I do it on other sites.
But this is a tough group that are often hostile.
Showing it to this crowd is just opening yourself up to abuse.
Even if you demonstrate the point you are making your picture will be picked and torn apart for every other reason the group can find.

It would be nice if the criticism were constructive but it usually is just plain harsh. Why people find it easier to be a prick than a mentor is beyond me. Now, here comes the 'If you can't handle the heat....' or other derivatives. Something I like about this site is the wide range of shooters we have here which COULD make a thread like this incredibly valuable to those just joining both us and the art form.

 

[takesome1]

'If you can't handle the heat....'

I would expect that response eventually to this line of conversation.

But then we posted this in a thread entitled "New to photography"

Lesson #1, Newcomers beware. Your work can easily become the fodder of fire and flame.

 

[Pookie]

I wish I lived near Pookie. He would have to chase me off constantly to keep me from lurking around trying to be his assistant. I like his work and it looks like he has a lot of fun doing it! I suspect I could learn a thing or two from him except that I would be pretty distracted by some of his beautiful (or handsome) subjects.

In short, any photographer could do a lot worse than having Pookie's portfolio. Very nice to browse!

Thanks, anytime you're in the bay area hit me up... first beer is on me

It would be nice if the criticism were constructive but it usually is just plain harsh. Why people find it easier to be a prick than a mentor is beyond me. Now, here comes the 'If you can't handle the heat....' or other derivatives. Something I like about this site is the wide range of shooters we have here which COULD make a thread like this incredibly valuable to those just joining both us and the art form.

Well, yes, there are some real winners here in this forum. But like much of life there will always be critics from all corners and none will ever be totally satisfied. Never fear criticism as it really is the only way to learn from mistakes you may not even know exist. I have no fear of others criticising my work, hell, I may even learn a new trick or two. I even seek out professional critiques. It's can be painful but also quite rewarding. I'm a firm believer in having a fresh point of view that I may have missed. The problem here are BS comments from forum "pros" that can't summon the courage to show their own portfolio... these individuals comments are as worthless as a 3 dollar bill and should be treated as such. This is what I think was meant by saying "Never take photography advice from people whose pictures you haven't seen".

Some could say I've been harsh with my critiques of some photos but harsh does not mean worthless or untrue. Harsh is only an interpretation. If it's an objective criticism like a "lack of focus" or missed compositional error they are meant as constructive even if it hurts your feelings. If it's subjective like crap subject or ugly model or... then take them for what they are, BS that has no bearing on your workflow.

CR is an unusual situation... utterly frustrating at times. I can't tell you how many threads I've read where the advice is just plain ridiculous. You can't use a 50mm for kids... or only use this lens for that... or this camera is worthless because... There is a plethora of ABSOLUTE advice that makes no senses in the real world. I work daily with a camera and I have to say not much of what is said here is ever talked about on the job. Photographers use cameras, they are merely tools and yes they may be concerned with DR or lenses but that doesn't stop them from doing their job or having fun taking photos. And it shouldn't stop you.

As for the OP... you've had a lot of good advice. I second the "use what you have" and then think about what's next. Find a local group or pro and follow them, learn from them and apply to your own work.

 

[AlanF]

This is my biggest peeves here on this site... there are quite a few here that are "forum" experts and when you ask to see an actual portfolio they claim privacy issues. Some even say they teach but can't show any work. It's a big reasons I will show you an image first before going into why a particular piece of equipment is good/bad/ok with real world examples. I am a working photographer and I do use the equipment I give advice on, I didn't just do a google search and spew technical info at you.

I've never meet a single professional or hobbyist photographer that refuses to show a portfolio. NEVER. Even if they keep a private personal port they always have secondary ports to show their work. This should be the litmus test for most here. There is a reason why having 10k posts earns you the name "CR Geek" not a photographer.

Showing your portfolio is great and I do it on other sites.
But this is a tough group that are often hostile.
Showing it to this crowd is just opening yourself up to abuse.
Even if you demonstrate the point you are making your picture will be picked and torn apart for every other reason the group can find.

Hey, all the guys on the bird photo threads are really friendly and never nasty.

 

[NancyP]

Personally, I consider it a bit extreme to avoid advice from someone who doesn't have a whole portfolio on line. I do not consider myself an expert at any photographic subject except "how I learn to take better photos". This will be different for different people, but really, there are probably a limited number of types of learners out there, and until you know what kind of learner you are, why not try a variety of learning strategies? \

I do post an occasional image in a subject thread - most recently here on spiders (the 8-legged, 8-eyed kind, not that thing in the middle of the tripod where the legs attach).

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Hey, all the guys on the bird photo threads are really friendly and never nasty.

That is, if you want to take the advice from someone who shoots Bird Photos! Bird Photos. : Yeesh. Gimme a break. What a waste of time!

Oh wait... Did I say that out loud??! Ooops! Don't mind me! Nothing to see here. Move along! :-[

(And just in case you're offended, I'm KIDDING!) I just wanted to mess with you friendly birders!! That last post was just so nice and friendly, I couldn't resist giving you a poke! LOL ;D 8)

 

[slclick]

Hey, all the guys on the bird photo threads are really friendly and never nasty.

That is, if you want to take the advice from someone who shoots Bird Photos! Bird Photos. : Yeesh. Gimme a break. What a waste of time!

Oh wait... Did I say that out loud??! Ooops! Don't mind me! Nothing to see here. Move along! :-[

(And just in case you're offended, I'm KIDDING!) I just wanted to mess with you friendly birders!! That last post was just so nice and friendly, I couldn't resist giving you a poke! LOL ;D 8)

They are a friendly bunch and I think it's because of their patience.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Hey, all the guys on the bird photo threads are really friendly and never nasty.

That is, if you want to take the advice from someone who shoots Bird Photos! Bird Photos. : Yeesh. Gimme a break. What a waste of time!

Oh wait... Did I say that out loud??! Ooops! Don't mind me! Nothing to see here. Move along! :-[

(And just in case you're offended, I'm KIDDING!) I just wanted to mess with you friendly birders!! That last post was just so nice and friendly, I couldn't resist giving you a poke! LOL ;D 8)

They are a friendly bunch and I think it's because of their patience.

Almost as patient as those MACRO Shooters! Ooops. There I go again! LOL

 

[dcm]

...

There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:

Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.

I remember some sage advice W. Edwards Deming gave during a seminar on quality. He's the guy they honored with a global quality award named after him. When pressed by someone in the audience why they should listen to him rather than all other other people offering quality seminars, he responded "Never learn from a quack." It was priceless.

Still following that advice today. When my twenty-something daughter decided she wanted me to teach her to fly fish on a visit home after unsuccessfully trying to learn from her friends, I hired a well regarded guide for the day. I told him his only goal was for her to catch fish and he should ignore me. Despite the lingering spring runoff she caught more than a dozen fish and managed a grand slam that day, catching brook, brown, cutthroat, and rainbow trout using different techniques on a few different rivers in and around Rocky Mountain National Park - something I've never even done. I think I chose well - now she confidently fishes on her own or with friends on the rivers around Missoula where she lives.

I wouldn't begin to teach her photography (or anyone else for that matter). My daughters both took a photography course while at the university to get them beyond point and shoot.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

...

There is just one thing I'd like to tell you:

Never take photography advice from people whos pictures you haven't seen.

I remember some sage advice W. Edwards Deming gave during a seminar on quality. He's the guy they honored with a global quality award named after him. When pressed by someone in the audience why they should listen to him rather than all other other people offering quality seminars, he responded "Never learn from a quack." It was priceless.

Still following that advance today. When my twenty-something daughter decided she wanted me to teach her to fly fish on a visit home after unsuccessfully trying to learn from her friends, I hired a well regarded guide for the day. I told him his only goal was for her to catch fish and he should ignore me. Despite the lingering spring runoff she caught more than a dozen fish and managed a grand slam that day, catching brook, brown, cutthroat, and rainbow trout using different techniques on a few different rivers in and around Rocky Mountain National Park - something I've never even done. I think I chose well - now she confidently fishes on her own or with friends on the rivers around Missoula where she lives.

I wouldn't begin to teach her photography (or anyone else for that matter). My daughters both took a photography course while at the university to get them beyond point and shoot.

That's an interesting and thought provoking story. Thanks for sharing. I agree.

Me, personally, I love to teach and I taught technical classes in technology for years. My wife teaches as well. Neither of us teach as our primary vocation but we are both good at it and have received a lot of praise and good evaluations.

With that said... teaching something isn't the same as knowing something. You can be the best expert on something AND be a good teacher and still suck at teaching it. The thing is, teaching is rarely something you can do well without adequate preparation and organized/effective class material. And even after prepping, the first teach of a new class is stressful and demanding.

Similar to your example... I didn't teach my boys to drive or firearms safety. I'm dad. I'm an idiot. My boys are well accustomed to tuning me and my lame advice out. But hey, those folks at the driving school are smart! And so was that firearms instructor! In both cases, the classes were established and proven as well as having teachers that have taught them many times. The kinks are ironed out and the classes are polished.

As Dirty Harry once said... "A man's got to know his limitations!"

 

[pwp]

.......My main goal is to just enjoy my time photographing whatever is in my mind. I like photographing animals, landscapes, astro-photography, nature and black & white photos.

Be totally obsessed. If you've got genuine passion there, the sky is the limit. Not a lot really happens without it. I'd be hanging out with as many photographers as is practical be they professionals, friends or club shooters. Always take your camera with you and become truly intimate and familiar with its controls and then push its potential along with your creative potential. Don't worry about making mistakes. Take risks.

Don't make the mistake of hanging out TOO much on lists like CR and risk being little more than a virtual photographer. Shoot everything. Make a picture story every day, even if that means doing it with your phone.

Shoot RAW and get good at processing to get the best from your files. Like cooking, playing guitar or getting good at a sport, practice makes perfect. You're going to have a ball.

-pw