Newsflash on 5D mark III price: It's cheaper than the 5D II intro price

[Radiating]

I keep seeing people posting about how they are dissatisfied with the 5D III price. Lets just look at the numbers:

Canon 5D Mark II intro price: 300,000 Yen
Canon 5D Mark III intro price: 270,000 Yen

Canon has always been a very rigid company with it's introductory pricing and has always priced successive products at the exact same price as previous generations, adjusted for inflation for the last 20 years. Their pricing has been so extremely consistent it deviates from the inflation rate in Japan less than a fraction of a percent. Their pricing is very similar to what Apple does in this way. The 5D Mark III marks the first time in history that Canon has ever priced a new generation of a product lower than the last generation.

If you have issues with the dollar amount complain about the devaluing of the US dollar, not about Canon.

I think the 5D III is a monumental upgrade, and the fact it's being offered for less than the last version was at introduction is all the more amazing.

Hope that helps clear up the pricing issue. If history is any indication the price will be cut in half over the next few years too

 

[V8Beast]

Waawaaa. You gotta pay to play. Just looking at the high ISO sample images of the MKIII, I'm happy to pay a $500 premium for it over the D800. This thing is a low-light monster.

 

[Radiating]

Waawaaa. You gotta pay to play. Just looking at the high ISO sample images of the MKIII, I'm happy to pay a $500 premium for it over the D800. This thing is a low-light monster.

Agreed not to mention the dynamic range improvements. Canon released a Nikon D3S with nearly twice the megapixels for nearly half the money. It's really an astonishing camera.

 

[jrista]

Not really sure where your getting your inflation data. According to this page: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/, based on CPI inflation, $2999 in 2007 is about the same as $3278 today, due to a change in inflation of 9.3%.

You could try to factor in commodities inflation, however those are fairly volatile markets, and month-by-month inflation or deflation in commodities (which can indeed be extreme over the short term) are not nearly as severe over the long term.

I think the 5D III is a bit over priced regardless. Based on CPI inflation, its about $300 more than it should be if we just accounted for inflation. It certainly has a major boost to some key features, like AF, but I'm not sure that really matters in the face of highly competitive pricing from Nikon on their D800, placing it at $3000. Inflation of the D700 starting price of $2999 would indicate that an equivalent pricing today of about $3157. (So Nikon is underselling the D800 on an inflation-normalized price curve.)

Either Canon really thinks they have a whopper of a camera housed in the 5D III and it will sell like hotcakes regardless the price, or they will be dropping some huge rebates in a few months when sales don't pick up like they expect it to. (Personally, with the Olympics just around the corner, I think the 5D III will sell like hotcakes for a while, and rebates will drop a few months after.) Once sales drop off, Canon will have to get competitive on price, and I figure it will settle around $2999...in line with the D800 (and most peoples expectations of a fair price.)

(BTW, if $2999 in 2007 equaled $4200 today, that would mean we had 40% inflation in about four years. There is NO WAY we've had that much inflation in four years. Its been about 1/4 that much on a normalized basis.)

 

[Radiating]

You're missing the point of the thread inflation + exchange rate. Canon is a Japanese company their price is 20% lower in Yen. They have always priced their products for the US market based on inflation adjusted Yen at introduction. I've researched this extensively and this practice goes back 20 years. They have always priced their products based on what the past version cost at introduction, adjusted for inflation and exchange rate. This goes back to the 20D the first EOS lenses, the 5D etc. So Canon really did break tradition for the first time in history to introduce this camera at a reduced price of $3500.

 

[XanuFoto]

I suspect Nikon is not even making money on the D800. They are a small company who went through turmoil and think they can get some market share with the D800. I hope they succeed. Because go healthy compitation is good for all. i.e. customers.

 

[Kernuak]

Something else to bear in mind. I was reading through the specs earlier and it states in the CPN Europe article, that they have made the anti-aliasing filter thinner. Nikon are charging extra for the removal in the D800E. Of course, I don't know how the filter in the D800 compares.

 

[jwong]

You're missing the point of the thread inflation + exchange rate. Canon is a Japanese company their price is 20% lower in Yen. They have always priced their products for the US market based on inflation adjusted Yen at introduction. I've researched this extensively and this practice goes back 20 years. They have always priced their products based on what the past version cost at introduction, adjusted for inflation and exchange rate. This goes back to the 20D the first EOS lenses, the 5D etc. So Canon really did break tradition for the first time in history to introduce this camera at a reduced price of $3500.

Nikon is a Japanese company too and they chose to price the D800 for 3000. Does the exchange rate + inflation argument not apply to Nikon as well?

 

[Radiating]

You're missing the point of the thread inflation + exchange rate. Canon is a Japanese company their price is 20% lower in Yen. They have always priced their products for the US market based on inflation adjusted Yen at introduction. I've researched this extensively and this practice goes back 20 years. They have always priced their products based on what the past version cost at introduction, adjusted for inflation and exchange rate. This goes back to the 20D the first EOS lenses, the 5D etc. So Canon really did break tradition for the first time in history to introduce this camera at a reduced price of $3500.

Nikon is a Japanese company too and they chose to price the D800 for 3000. Does the exchange rate + inflation argument not apply to Nikon as well?

I was addressing the perception of money versus the historical record.

You're addressing the problem of perception of money versus the current camera market.

The 5D III I think is even more of a bargain when you consider the market. The D800 is a high megapixel pro camera that is otherwise unremarkable. The 5DIII has 2 stops of improved low light performance, which is astounding to say the least, and it features 1 series build quality. Both of those are very expensive features to put in a camera. More megapixels are not an expensive feature. The 5D III is really like combining a D3X and the D3S into one body and charging half as much which is great, though not everyone wants the features.

 

[randplaty]

I keep seeing people posting about how they are dissatisfied with the 5D III price. I really have no idea where these posts are coming from. When you correct for inflation and exchange rate the 5D Mark II was introduced at $4200 in today's dollars. $3500 is noticeably cheaper than $4200 the last time I checked. So if the past is any indication the good news is 5D III intro price will be cut in half in the next few years. Hope that helps clear up the pricing issue.

Good post. People are just mad that they can't afford this camera. They only had 3k saved, and if they had 3500 they would pay it... but they don't. Sucks for them.

 

[crasher7]

Nothing but groundless rationalization. You can't pay, let alone feel better about high prices with historical BS.

Whip out your Amex and deal. Or keep shooting with your old body, it still can take great photographs.

 

[EchoLocation]

I keep seeing people posting about how they are dissatisfied with the 5D III price. I really have no idea where these posts are coming from. When you correct for inflation and exchange rate the 5D Mark II was introduced at $4200 in today's dollars. $3500 is noticeably cheaper than $4200 the last time I checked. So if the past is any indication the good news is 5D III intro price will be cut in half in the next few years. Hope that helps clear up the pricing issue.

Good post. People are just mad that they can't afford this camera. They only had 3k saved, and if they had 3500 they would pay it... but they don't. Sucks for them.

 

[jrista]

You're missing the point of the thread inflation + exchange rate. Canon is a Japanese company their price is 20% lower in Yen. They have always priced their products for the US market based on inflation adjusted Yen at introduction. I've researched this extensively and this practice goes back 20 years. They have always priced their products based on what the past version cost at introduction, adjusted for inflation and exchange rate. This goes back to the 20D the first EOS lenses, the 5D etc. So Canon really did break tradition for the first time in history to introduce this camera at a reduced price of $3500.

First off, I'd like a more detailed explanation or a source of record that verifies Canon uses the model your claiming they do to set price. (I'm not sure "exchange rate" was stated in your original unedited post.) Even assuming they do set US price on the basis of inflation and exchange rate, it doesn't actually change the fact that in the world reserve currency, US DOLLARS, the introduction price of the 5D II was quite literally $2999.

Exchange rate doesn't play a factor into the equation when you state "in today's dollars". We have had just over 9% inflation since 2007 (and actually, probably a bit less than that since September 2007), so if we are talking on an inflation-normalized basis...US Dollars are the only thing that matter when comparing the original USD price to the current USD price. The difference in price based on inflation is about $3200 today, or about $300 less than the $3500 it currently lists for.

I find that stating the original price of the 5D II was $4200 in USD to be very misleading. If you want to get the point across that I think you want to get, you might be better off doing it in Yen, and comparing the 5D II introductory yen price to the 5D III introductory yen price.

Nikon is a Japanese company too and they chose to price the D800 for 3000. Does the exchange rate + inflation argument not apply to Nikon as well?

I was addressing the perception of money versus the historical record.

You're addressing the problem of perception of money versus the current camera market.

The 5D III I think is even more of a bargain when you consider the market. The D800 is a high megapixel pro camera that is otherwise unremarkable. The 5DIII has 2 stops of improved low light performance, which is astounding to say the least, and it features 1 series build quality. Both of those are very expensive features to put in a camera. More megapixels are not an expensive feature. The 5D III is really like combining a D3X and the D3S into one body and charging half as much which is great, though not everyone wants the features.

In this respect, I don't disagree with you at all. I too find both the D800 and D4 rather unremarkable outside of the surprising 36.3mp sensor of the D800. The 5D III, despite its unremarkable sensor resolution, is very remarkable in every other respect.

 

[MikeHunt]

You're missing the point of the thread inflation + exchange rate. Canon is a Japanese company their price is 20% lower in Yen. They have always priced their products for the US market based on inflation adjusted Yen at introduction. I've researched this extensively and this practice goes back 20 years. They have always priced their products based on what the past version cost at introduction, adjusted for inflation and exchange rate. This goes back to the 20D the first EOS lenses, the 5D etc. So Canon really did break tradition for the first time in history to introduce this camera at a reduced price of $3500.

The Canon EOS 5D Mark II was launched in September 2008 @ $2,699 for body only.

Using your logic, but substituting in 'real' money i.e. GOLD, it cost 3.25 ounces of Gold (as Gold was $830/oz.)

Now the new 5D3 is $3,499 for body only, is approximately just 2 ounces of Gold (as today old is $1710/oz.)

Thus according to your rationale, the newer model is actually cheaper!

Problem is, humans are irrational, they tend to look at the absolute amount, plus they go by experience that consumer electronics (computers/cameras/smartphones) become cheaper over time as the cost of the technology declines.

 

[TAF]

OK, it's really quite simple.

The Mk II was $2700 at introduction. The exchange rate at the time was 110 yen to the dollar. Thus the MkII was 297,000 yen.

The Mk III is $3500. The exchange rate today is 81 yen to the dollar. Thus the Mk III is 283,500 yen.

Therefore the Mk III is cheaper, in the currency of the manufacturer - which is what counts. Canon may announce the price in dollars, but they operate the business in yen.

Yes, it sucks that it is so expensive. Complain to your congressman about the intentional devaluation of the USD. But that isn't Canon's fault.

I'm hoping the price drops by mid-summer. I want one for my next vacation.

 

[jrista]

The Canon EOS 5D Mark II was launched in September 2008 @ $2,699 for body only.

Using your logic, but substituting in 'real' money i.e. GOLD, it cost 3.25 ounces of Gold (as Gold was $830/oz.)

Now the new 5D3 is $3,499 for body only, is approximately just 2 ounces of Gold (as today old is $1710/oz.)

Thus according to your rationale, the newer model is actually cheaper!

Problem is, humans are irrational, they tend to look at the absolute amount, plus they go by experience that consumer electronics (computers/cameras/smartphones) become cheaper over time as the cost of the technology declines.

Whas it introduced in 2007 or 2008? (I may have been using the wrong date for my inflation calculations if it was released 2008...)

 

[mjp]

Whas it introduced in 2007 or 2008? (I may have been using the wrong date for my inflation calculations if it was released 2008...)

September 17, 2008 was the 5DII announce date.

I wonder how many people are going to get into debt over this new camera?

 

[Meh]

US Dollars are the only thing that matter when comparing the original USD price to the current USD price. The difference in price based on inflation is about $3200 today, or about $300 less than the $3500 it currently lists for.

I don't know if the OP (before edit) included exchange rate (it was there by the time I first read it earlier today) but it is relevant nevertheless. I also don't know if Canon uses the model that is being suggested but in response to your point, if you're a executive at Canon Japan, the only thing that matters is Yen and it's very reasonable to believe that Canon Japan is setting the price in Yen, converting to USD at current exchange rates, and possibly consider whether that price in USD is too high for the market. But even in the case that they did think the USD price was a bit high, I think it more likely they would set the list price as is, see what happens, and offer a behind the scenes discount to wholesalers so that the street price would go down rather than having a significant disparity in the list pricing. I know not if any of this is true or what really happens at Canon HQ... just my idle speculation.

 

[jrista]

US Dollars are the only thing that matter when comparing the original USD price to the current USD price. The difference in price based on inflation is about $3200 today, or about $300 less than the $3500 it currently lists for.

I don't know if the OP (before edit) included exchange rate (it was there by the time I first read it earlier today) but it is relevant nevertheless. I also don't know if Canon uses the model that is being suggested but in response to your point, if you're a executive at Canon Japan, the only thing that matters is Yen and it's very reasonable to believe that Canon Japan is setting the price in Yen, converting to USD at current exchange rates, and possibly consider whether that price in USD is too high for the market. But even in the case that they did think the USD price was a bit high, I think it more likely they would set the list price as is, see what happens, and offer a behind the scenes discount to wholesalers so that the street price would go down rather than having a significant disparity in the list pricing. I know not if any of this is true or what really happens at Canon HQ... just my idle speculation.

Ok, valid points. Taking that into consideration:

Assuming an intro price of $2700 in late 2008, adjusted for inflation, that would be about $2850 today. If we account for the exchange rate, in Yen in 9/2008 (rate of about ¥106/$1) $2700 is about ¥286200...and in Yen in 3/2012 (rate of about ¥81/$1) $3500 is about ¥283500. As far as adjusting for inflation/exchange rate to the Yen is concerned, the difference in yen is about ¥2700, and in USD today that difference would be about $33.33.

As far as I can tell, Canon introduced both cameras at roughly the same price point in their own currency.

I got my exchange rates from here (really quick bing search): http://www.x-rates.com/d/JPY/USD/hist2012.html

 

[BobSanderson]

Although I understand the need to understand/justify the pricing for this new object of desire, this is a most difficult exercise.

We have no idea about the assumptions that are being made by Canon for the price point they are setting relative to the profit they feel is appropriate over the life of the product given the sunk development and marketing costs. Without knowing these assumptions we are left with an impenetrable veil to guess through.

Basing a current pricing analysis on past history does have its problems. First, it assumes a fixed pricing strategy by Canon and perhaps Nikon as the leaders... and a willingness by both to maintain stasis or relative position. Two, the comparison with past models assumes that past pricing extrapolated to the present will, despite changes in input costs and technological change, produce a margin that will be acceptable. Three, pricing is not only connected to currency changes but also to local markets. The world wide local pricing for this camera varies beyond currency explanations (we have heard the squeals of real pain from our fellow international Canon lovers) . Four, inflation is only one factor in this drama.

My take on Canon is that they have a battle on many fronts in imaging and the competitors are now more diverse and quicker than ever. The DSLRs are still the flagships but this market is relatively limited when all of photography is fully considered. Many people are satisfied with just taking snapshots of limited quality and then putting them quickly on social network sites (requiring limited IQ....). I think we have all seen people with digital cameras and phones hardly taking the time to stop as they tourist around taking tons of pictures. A few of these folks will migrate to a DLSR or even a 5D Mk III but not that many. Many people have found a love for photography and are posting on flickr and other sites but many are happy with the results they get from point and shoots and iPhones for recording their lives and the things they enjoy sharing. It is a complex equation.

The greatest garlands for excellence in all the areas of fine art, commercial, wildlife, sport and reporting photography will, for the foreseeable future, go to a handful of camera manufactures and a very limited number of products. Like what happened with the film SLR market, we may be seeing an inflection point as new technologies will begin to attract the cool peeps from the DSLR to new lighter cameras (hello mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras - MILCs). We might be seeing the last of a great dinosaur line. It has been a great ride that will continue for the foreseeable future but maybe there will better ways to do what we love.

My feeling is that the 5d Mk III is a wonderful and appropriately expensive piece of equipment. A few hundred dollars (which is what many are quibbling over) will not stop a real professional with a thriving business - especially if he/she feels the IQ difference will secure or maintain a competitive advantage. The real problem with this pricing comes for the advanced or advancing enthusiasts of limited means. They may be having a tough time justifying the added expense with no attendant revenue - but the human mind is a very creative organ. Buying this body will certainly crimp other purchases in their lives not only in their hobby. It wouldn't be so hard if the camera was not so great!

I want one but I just can't justify it given I haven't peaked yet with the equipment I own and the time I have to dedicate to this adventure. I might spring for the replacement 7D should that ever come our way. See, we can justify anything even in one paragraph.

In the end we can only decide if this product is, at this time, worth the cost to us for what we are receiving. Canon has put in a marker and depending on how it goes will maintain, lower or raise the price. Nikon has made their play and we are all potential actors in this drama.