Nikon #1 for FF DSLRs(Dec)

[tron]

I would welcome a 5DsR mkII (with same mpixel count which is more than enough) with improved sensor in both low and high iso (using the on-chip converter like 5D4) a couple of fps more, touch screen, GPS and a significantly better buffer. It doesn't need anything else (Yes I know the 4K trolls will protest but I do not care I just mentioned what I would personally like to see as minimum).

 

[ahsanford]

It isn't really surprising that the D850 is the best-selling FF camera. This is the release window, and it's a major release, so it had better be, or Nikon would be in serious trouble.

+1. There is pent up demand from the D810 users, a big marketing push and Nikon just offered a comprehensive upgrade. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a big tick up in sales.

And monthly numbers don't wind up Canon. Change a noticeable percentage of market share by end of year, however, and it's a completely different story.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

It also tells us what an exceptionally good camera the D850 is and if anything is ever going to lure me away from my Canon 5D mk4 it would be this product. Canon really do need to respond to this with something rather special.

+0.5

It appears to be a FF supercamera a la the A7R3 or A99-II... but this one is made by a company that actually understands photographers' ergonomic, handing, menu, interface needs. That means Nikon has a far greater likelihood of fulfilling the potential of that formidable spec sheet.

...but the 0.5 is just for the D850 looking like a strong product. I don't think Canon "needs to respond" to it, however.

Right now, (for stills users) the gripless D850 appears to be a 5D4 + 15 MP - DPAF for about the same price. To step up to 9 fps, you need to invest the better part of $1000. So for those salivating over this new camera really being more like the speed of the 1-series and the resolution of the 5DS, it comes at an A9 sort of price point, somewhere between a 5D4 and 1DX2.

(I still think the 5D4 is spec-wise in no man's land and could be categorically leap-frogged in resolution *and* framerate with the next 5DS... but it's still going to sell well because Canon knows how to move units.)

- A

 

[ahsanford]

I would welcome a 5DsR mkII (with same mpixel count which is more than enough) with improved sensor in both low and high iso (using the on-chip converter like 5D4) a couple of fps more, touch screen, GPS and a significantly better buffer. It doesn't need anything else (Yes I know the 4K trolls will protest but I do not care I just mentioned what I would personally like to see as minimum).

I think the next-gen of Canon FF bodies will need to step up in throughput.

Current throughput possible in 2018:

A99-II = 42x12 = 504
A9 = 24x20 = 480
A7R3 = 42x10 = 420
D850 = 45x9 = 405 (with the grip)

Meanwhile:

1DX2 = 16 x 20 = 320
5DS = 50 x 5 = 250
5D4 = 30 x 7 = 210

...and you see my prior point. There are three Sony bodies moving 2x the data that the 5D4 does.

And this isn't just a competitive problem -- it's a problem for Canon portfolio-wise as well. The 5D4's identity in the portfolio as the 'all-arounder' (i.e. slightly less detail / faster fps than the 5DS) will likely just become 'second class to the 5DS2' as that product line's next offering might be 60 x 7 or something like that.

I still contend that Canon should have put another chip on the 5D4 and had it come in at 9 fps or so. That would have been a logical sweet spot to not threaten 1DX sales while still future-proofing it from being outperformed by a future 5DS2.

- A

 

[tron]

I would welcome a 5DsR mkII (with same mpixel count which is more than enough) with improved sensor in both low and high iso (using the on-chip converter like 5D4) a couple of fps more, touch screen, GPS and a significantly better buffer. It doesn't need anything else (Yes I know the 4K trolls will protest but I do not care I just mentioned what I would personally like to see as minimum).

I think the next-gen of Canon FF bodies will need to step up in throughput.

Current throughput possible in 2018:

A99-II = 42x12 = 504
A9 = 24x20 = 480
A7R3 = 42x10 = 420
D850 = 45x9 = 405 (with the grip)

Meanwhile:

1DX2 = 16 x 20 = 320
5DS = 50 x 5 = 250
5D4 = 30 x 7 = 210

...and you see my prior point. There are three Sony bodies moving 2x the data that the 5D4 does.

And this isn't just a competitive problem -- it's a problem for Canon portfolio-wise as well. The 5D4's identity in the portfolio as the 'all-arounder' (i.e. slightly less detail / faster fps than the 5DS) will likely just become 'second class to the 5DS2' as that product line's next offering might be 60 x 7 or something like that.

I still contend that Canon should have put another chip on the 5D4 and had it come in at 9 fps or so. That would have been a logical sweet spot to not threaten 1DX sales while still future-proofing it from being outperformed by a future 5DS2.

- A

Having a 5D4 I would really like that! I hope that at least 5D5 will run at this speed...

 

[ahsanford]

I still contend that Canon should have put another chip on the 5D4 and had it come in at 9 fps or so. That would have been a logical sweet spot to not threaten 1DX sales while still future-proofing it from being outperformed by a future 5DS2.

- A

Having a 5D4 I would really like that! I hope that at least 5D5 will run at this speed...

But this is where timing (and Canon being a creature of habit with product lifecycles) hurts Canon. If a 5DS2 drops at 60 x 7 in a year or so and 5D4 folks have to wait another 3 years for at (say) 36 x 9 in a future 5D5, the 5D4 camp may get happy feet and consider getting resolution and speed right now.

- A

 

[tron]

I still contend that Canon should have put another chip on the 5D4 and had it come in at 9 fps or so. That would have been a logical sweet spot to not threaten 1DX sales while still future-proofing it from being outperformed by a future 5DS2.

- A

Having a 5D4 I would really like that! I hope that at least 5D5 will run at this speed...

But this is where timing (and Canon being a creature of habit with product lifecycles) hurts Canon. If a 5DS2 drops at 60 x 7 in a year or so and 5D4 folks have to wait another 3 years for at (say) 36 x 9 in a future 5D5, the 5D4 camp may get happy feet and consider getting resolution and speed right now.

- A

True, still 5D4 seems like a major upgrade to 5D3 mainly due to sensor improvements.

 

[Random Orbits]

I still contend that Canon should have put another chip on the 5D4 and had it come in at 9 fps or so. That would have been a logical sweet spot to not threaten 1DX sales while still future-proofing it from being outperformed by a future 5DS2.

- A

Having a 5D4 I would really like that! I hope that at least 5D5 will run at this speed...

But this is where timing (and Canon being a creature of habit with product lifecycles) hurts Canon. If a 5DS2 drops at 60 x 7 in a year or so and 5D4 folks have to wait another 3 years for at (say) 36 x 9 in a future 5D5, the 5D4 camp may get happy feet and consider getting resolution and speed right now.

- A

And Canon would be happy to have 5D4 users switch to a higher-priced 5DS2.

 

[ahsanford]

And Canon would be happy to have 5D4 users switch to a higher-priced 5DS2.

^^ Give the man a cigar. ^^ It would appear that at least in the 1-2 years after the 5DS2 is out and the 5D4 has not yet been refreshed, Canon will in effect be operating in a good-better-best (6D2/5D4/5DS2) FF portfolio just like Nikon.

I just think a 9 fps call on the 5D4 would have lessened the blow of the release of the 5DS2 and possibly could have had the 5D4 remain viable as a $3k camera for a longer period of time.

Anyway, I'm way OT on this, we should get back to this thread's point of YAPODFC.

- A

 

[Mikehit]

And Canon would be happy to have 5D4 users switch to a higher-priced 5DS2.

^^ Give the man a cigar. ^^ It would appear that at least in the 1-2 years after the 5DS2 is out and the 5D4 has not yet been refreshed, Canon will in effect be operating in a good-better-best (6D2/5D4/5DS2) FF portfolio just like Nikon.

I just think a 9 fps call on the 5D4 would have lessened the blow of the release of the 5DS2 and possibly could have had the 5D4 remain viable as a $3k camera for a longer period of time.

Anyway, I'm way OT on this, we should get back to this thread's point of YAPODFC.

- A

But don't forget the 9fps on Nikon comes at a hefty price! Despite that I quite like the almost-modular upgrade path that the D850 offers - keep portrait/landscape at 3,000 bucks but upgrade the fps if you need the speed without the ultimate rugged build of the flagship

 

[scyrene]

It isn't really surprising that the D850 is the best-selling FF camera. This is the release window, and it's a major release, so it had better be, or Nikon would be in serious trouble.

+1. There is pent up demand from the D810 users, a big marketing push and Nikon just offered a comprehensive upgrade. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a big tick up in sales.

And monthly numbers don't wind up Canon. Change a noticeable percentage of market share by end of year, however, and it's a completely different story.

- A

And even if it did upset Canon, there's no way they could respond in a few months. They aren't holding on to world beating models (with ready stock) they can just release at the drop of a hat.

 

[ahsanford]

And even if it did upset Canon, there's no way they could respond in a few months. They aren't holding on to world beating models (with ready stock) they can just release at the drop of a hat.

Or can they? 8)

- A