Nikon D850 - sensor no better than D810. EEEK!

[Fatalv]

This entire thread is laughable. Did no one even read the notes?

"Notes:
(e) indcates estimated values that are not based on the normal test protocol. For example, the Nikon D850."

This is the same kind of garbage ppl complained about with the 6DMK2 tests, but apparently as long as it's used to blast Nikon it's ok. Seems like the fanboys/trolling on both sides has gotten out of hand recently.

 

[privatebydesign]

This entire thread is laughable. Did no one even read the notes?

"Notes:
(e) indcates estimated values that are not based on the normal test protocol. For example, the Nikon D850."

This is the same kind of garbage ppl complained about with the 6DMK2 tests, but apparently as long as it's used to blast Nikon it's ok. Seems like the fanboys/trolling on both sides has gotten out of hand recently.

Yes and how did that garbage turn out? It was truthful. The "estimated" moniker comes from the point that the files are normally from beta cameras without official release. This rarely seems to make any practical difference.

On the other hand I would point out that technical data, like the PDR constantly referred to, doesn't necessarily equate to noticeable differences in real world images. There is more than one 6D MkII owner put there pointing out they are getting 'better' results with their MkII's.

 

[Fatalv]

This entire thread is laughable. Did no one even read the notes?

"Notes:
(e) indcates estimated values that are not based on the normal test protocol. For example, the Nikon D850."

This is the same kind of garbage ppl complained about with the 6DMK2 tests, but apparently as long as it's used to blast Nikon it's ok. Seems like the fanboys/trolling on both sides has gotten out of hand recently.

Yes and how did that garbage turn out? It was truthful. The "estimated" moniker comes from the point that the files are normally from beta cameras without official release. This rarely seems to make any practical difference.

On the other hand I would point out that technical data, like the PDR constantly referred to, doesn't necessarily equate to noticeable differences in real world images. There is more than one 6D MkII owner put there pointing out they are getting 'better' results with their MkII's.

Sure, in the end there was truth to some of the analysis. For the 6DMK2 there were also sample photos, I see nothing of the sort on this site along with the clearly label note saying 'estimate' and further stating not based on the 'normal test protocols'. I wouldn't have pegged 'estimate' to mean what you note above. If so, it's a poor choice or words.

But regardless if you test every other camera/sensor with the 'normal test protocol' and another body with a different one how can you possibly compare them especially without knowing the differences?

By 'garbage' I was also alluding to the massive uprising and dismissal of the results until the camera was released. I find it funny and hypocritical that the same people defending the 6DMK2 are now using the same tests to dismiss the Nikon D850.

As always, I'll wait for real world results, just like with the 6DMK2. I welcome the competition from Nikon, since it will hopefully make my next Canon purchase that much better

 

[Mikehit]

This entire thread is laughable. Did no one even read the notes?

"Notes:
(e) indcates estimated values that are not based on the normal test protocol. For example, the Nikon D850."

This is the same kind of garbage ppl complained about with the 6DMK2 tests, but apparently as long as it's used to blast Nikon it's ok. Seems like the fanboys/trolling on both sides has gotten out of hand recently.

It didn't stop people criticising the 6D2 based on Bill's values though, did it?
As for 'those who defended the OP are now criticising the D850', I guess you missed the irony in my OP and the comments from those who responded to critics (I hesitate to calling them 'people who defended the 6D2')

 

[Fatalv]

This entire thread is laughable. Did no one even read the notes?

"Notes:
(e) indcates estimated values that are not based on the normal test protocol. For example, the Nikon D850."

This is the same kind of garbage ppl complained about with the 6DMK2 tests, but apparently as long as it's used to blast Nikon it's ok. Seems like the fanboys/trolling on both sides has gotten out of hand recently.

It didn't stop people criticising the 6D2 based on Bill's values though, did it?
As for 'those who defended the OP are now criticising the D850', I guess you missed the irony in my OP and the comments from those who responded to critics (I hesitate to calling them 'people who defended the 6D2')

That was my point. Why stoop to the same level of the trolls by bashing a camera before real world tests happen?

I guess I missed the irony and saw more of another "lets bash a camera thread" that has seemingly become the norm around here.

 

[bholliman]

I hope its a good camera and that Nikon does well with it, but I'm not tempted.

+1

 

[ritholtz]

Compared to recent releases, Canon produced very competitive cameras with respect to DR. 1dx2 has better DR than D5. 5D4 seems to be on par with d850. I guess Bill is still chasing for ISO 64 file with d850. 80d, 77d, t7i and sl2 all of them are released with new Sensor which is very close to d7500. Canon actually become competitive in terms of sensor and still maintaining their live view advantage. It used to be very bad.

 

[scyrene]

This entire thread is laughable. Did no one even read the notes?

"Notes:
(e) indcates estimated values that are not based on the normal test protocol. For example, the Nikon D850."

This is the same kind of garbage ppl complained about with the 6DMK2 tests, but apparently as long as it's used to blast Nikon it's ok. Seems like the fanboys/trolling on both sides has gotten out of hand recently.

I think it's called a JOKE.

 

[raptor3x]

This entire thread is laughable. Did no one even read the notes?

"Notes:
(e) indcates estimated values that are not based on the normal test protocol. For example, the Nikon D850."

This is the same kind of garbage ppl complained about with the 6DMK2 tests, but apparently as long as it's used to blast Nikon it's ok. Seems like the fanboys/trolling on both sides has gotten out of hand recently.

They're still based on measurements taken from D850 RAW files. Like others have stated it's only estimated because it's not from a production camera and the images weren't taken with the normal protocol, but all that's really needed for a DR measurement is for some of the pixels to hit the saturation point and then to take readings from the masked pixels for the read noise. Historically, the initial estimated values are almost always the same or just very slightly lower than the final results. It's the same as when everyone here was ripping into cgarcia when he posted the first 6D2 measurements over on FredMiranda. People may not like the numbers but both cgarcia and bclaff have a history of being almost dead on with their early measurements.

 

[Jopa]

I bet a $1 it will hit a 100 @ DxO sensor score.

 

[SecureGSM]

I bet a $1 on Canon 5D IV street price hit US$2,600.00 by Christmas. Love it

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322657909819

price : US$2,729.99 /w free economy shipping.

I bet a $1 it will hit a 100 @ DxO sensor score.

 

[LonelyBoy]

To be fair, it's a bit different situation. The D810 sensor is already very good, while everybody agrees that the 6D/6D2 low-ISO DR isn't optimal and the fact that really adds insult to injury is that all other newest-gen Canon sensors have better DR. The D750 sensor remains the king of Nikon FF sensors though.

"Fair" would be temper tantrums about "buhbuhbuh where's the innovation! after four years!" You know, the way people treat Canon when they improve anything but DR for a few years. But no, "innovation" is defined as "anything Sonikon do and nothing Canon does, no matter what".

 

[OSOK]

I bet a $1 on Canon 5D IV street price hit US$2,600.00 by Christmas. Love it

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322657909819

price : US$2,729.99 /w free economy shipping.

I bet a $1 it will hit a 100 @ DxO sensor score.

The way the D850 is specced out, the 5D4 will need to be $2,400 or $2,500 to be a reasonable value comparison. I'd want around $1,000 discount for the loss of 2fps, 15 megapixels, less AF performance, tilt screen, the AA filter, likely less DR, 4K and more.

5D4 will cease being an option for new buyers into mid-level semi-Pro FF. New buyers will go Nikon or Sony (mostly Sony). It's really only for heavily invested Canon users. We're talking people with huge arsenals of L glass.

But rest assured, going forward - there won't be a single 5D4 or 5DSR buyer who doesn't feel a little ripped off as they open their wallet for one of these...that is, if they are being honest.

 

[SecureGSM]

I do not feel it that way. Rather D850 price needs to be $500 more than price at the announcement.

Can you please also explain why should I be feeling ripped off as I am just About to spend $2850 on 5D IV body?

 

[Talys]

5D4 will cease being an option for new buyers into mid-level semi-Pro FF. New buyers will go Nikon or Sony (mostly Sony). It's really only for heavily invested Canon users. We're talking people with huge arsenals of L glass.

But rest assured, going forward - there won't be a single 5D4 or 5DSR buyer who doesn't feel a little ripped off as they open their wallet for one of these...that is, if they are being honest.

Ahhhh.... thank you for a good laugh as I have my morning coffee.

People who buy Mercedes feel ripped off, because they could buy a Camry for way less and get better fuel economy! People who stay at the Four Seasons feel RIPPED OFF, when they find out the swimming pool at the Holiday Inn is bigger, doubly so when they see the sign for maximum seats at the restaurant is bigger!!

Rrrrrriiippped off, I tell you!

 

[Talys]

To be fair, it's a bit different situation. The D810 sensor is already very good, while everybody agrees that the 6D/6D2 low-ISO DR isn't optimal and the fact that really adds insult to injury is that all other newest-gen Canon sensors have better DR. The D750 sensor remains the king of Nikon FF sensors though.

I will admit that I would be impressed if Nikon drops a $2,000 camera with as good or better DR and IQ than their $3000 camera released less than a year prior.

Until then, 5DIV / 6DII equivalences are poor comparisons.

 

[Sharlin]

To be fair, it's a bit different situation. The D810 sensor is already very good, while everybody agrees that the 6D/6D2 low-ISO DR isn't optimal and the fact that really adds insult to injury is that all other newest-gen Canon sensors have better DR. The D750 sensor remains the king of Nikon FF sensors though.

I will admit that I would be impressed if Nikon drops a $2,000 camera with as good or better DR and IQ than their $3000 camera released less than a year prior.

Until then, 5DIV / 6DII equivalences are poor comparisons.

But what about a 6DII / 800D comparison?

 

[Loswr]

5D4 will cease being an option for new buyers into mid-level semi-Pro FF. New buyers will go Nikon or Sony (mostly Sony).

LOL. No one at that level cares about trifles like lens selection, reliability, and service availability… But you go on living the fantasy!

 

[scyrene]

But rest assured, going forward - there won't be a single 5D4 or 5DSR buyer who doesn't feel a little ripped off as they open their wallet for one of these...that is, if they are being honest.

This is a logical fallacy along the lines of 'no true Scotsman'. I am a 5Ds owner and I don't feel in the least bit ripped off, but you will no doubt say I'm not being honest, so your statement is irrefutable.

I don't feel ripped off because I bought the 5Ds (about TWO YEARS AGO) in good faith knowing all its abilities and faults, it has served me as well as I'd hoped.

 

[Talys]

But what about a 6DII / 800D comparison?

As someone who owns both, trying to compare them is terrible, because they fulfill different niches. You can't really use one to replace the other.

I spent the morning photographing great blue heron at a lake, and took both a 6DII with a 100-400 L II and an 80D with a Sigma 150-600 C, and brought along a 1.4TC, plus a gimbal on a tripod. They both have distinct uses, I got great shots out of both. Frankly, comparing their image quality becomes a game of apples to oranges. If you can't get amazing photos out of either a 6DII or an 80D, you need to read some books and spend time actually taking pictures, because buying a D850 or 5DIV isn't going to help.

At the end of the day, what you have on both other ends of the camera body is far more important than two thirds of an EV in DR or an extra frame a second. But if you really, really care about getting the best specs on that body, by all means, pick up every exciting, "ground-breaking" camera that pops. All the camera manufacturers will be very happy

But rest assured, going forward - there won't be a single 5D4 or 5DSR buyer who doesn't feel a little ripped off as they open their wallet for one of these...that is, if they are being honest.

This is a logical fallacy along the lines of 'no true Scotsman'. I am a 5Ds owner and I don't feel in the least bit ripped off, but you will no doubt say I'm not being honest, so your statement is irrefutable.

I don't feel ripped off because I bought the 5Ds (about TWO YEARS AGO) in good faith knowing all its abilities and faults, it has served me as well as I'd hoped.

Just keep in mind that in 1 month from now, your 5Ds will no longer be able to take amazing photos. If you're being honest, you will only be able to take amazing photos if you buy a D850! There's even a chart with green lines and blue lines that says so.