Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

lecoupdejarnac

I'm New Here
Jul 22, 2011
15
0
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I'm definitely going to buy an A7r, but not right away. Probably in about a year I'll sell my 5DII and get one of these, after the metabones AF adapter is tested with more Canon lenses and the firmware is updated.

Canon is either too hesitant to do anything that might cannibalize their own DSLR sales, or perhaps they're just not very innovative anymore. Either way, I wouldn't expect them to come out with a small, lightweight FF camera like this for several years.
 

zlatko

EOS RP
Aug 27, 2013
617
0
www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

CanonPekka said:
zlatko said:
Ricku said:
sdsr said:
The EOS M I bought from B&H during the sale came with the new firmware and it still had a maddening lag; for that reason, along with the unreliable focusing and lack of a viewfinder, I recently sold it. Yes, it can take excellent photos, and yes, in that sense it was an amazing bargain, but for me it wasn't worth the annoyance; compared to my Olympus E-M5 the whole experience was an irritating joke. Surely Canon can do better; perhaps they will.
Of course Canon can do better. But tbh, I think they are somewhat terrified of the mirrorless market. The EOS M is a living proof of that.

I think it's all about desperately trying to protect and stick to their current market segmentation.

But dear Canon, now Sony (and soon others) is going to take a bite of your lunch.

Canon is actually making money on electronics, even while the camera market is shrinking. Sony, on the other hand, is losing money. Lots of it. Sony's electronics division has lost $8.5 billion. The reason they are still in business is that they make money on insurance (mostly) and movies and music. Otherwise they would be in a deep hole.

Canon isn't desperate or terrified about anything. They are doing quite well with a wide range of popular products. Nearly every videographer I see is shooting Canon and has 2 or 3 Canon bodies and a bag full of Canon lenses. The EOS M is proof of nothing more than a first effort.

I hope the A7/A7r is a huge success as it is a great idea. The size, features and pricing look just right.

Sony sensor division are making good money
Sony mobile phones are going well if you look at the last figures

Canons sensor division are leaning on 1 old line and 1 newer one , high internal costs and not effectiv compared to others as Sony with 5-7lines , Panasonic, Toshiba all with new 65nm sensor lines and high tech sensors.

If it is cameras we are discussing I think you should be more worry about Canons old sensor tech and there are no signs that something is happening with theirs sensors regarding resolution, dynamic range, color resolution.
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech. It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution. No problems with it at all. I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.
 

drjlo

EOS R
Mar 27, 2012
805
7
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

JohnDizzo15 said:
my feeling is that the people that are heavily invested in the Canon or Nikon ecosystem will not be quick to jump ship as most of us aren't looking to manually focus (for all intents and purposes) all of our glass. This is not to say there are not some people that would be completely fine with this.

Regardless, if the price comes down a bit, I may not be able to resist just picking one up to have that oh so sweet 36 mp sensor in my bag as I could still put that to good use in some instances.

While I agree not too many would "jump ship," I can see many people having both Canon and Sony bodies for their L glass collection, e.g. myself.

Sure, AF will be slow via Metabones and L glass, but if I'm shooting landscape with L glass on that 36 MP D800e sensor, who cares. The fact is Nikon bodies can't take L glass, adapter or not. I for one would love to see the results from my Canon TS-E 24 MM II on that 36 MP sensor. The other thing is, if Canon had come out with something like A7 or A7r, the price would be way higher than what Sony is charging. I figure, I will wait a year or so, buy the A7r after price comes down and while on some Holiday sale ;D
 

Ricku

EOS RP
May 20, 2011
493
0
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

zlatko said:
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech. It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution. No problems with it at all. I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.
You need to add more :-* :p ::) :eek: :D ;D -faces when you tell a joke.
 

zlatko

EOS RP
Aug 27, 2013
617
0
www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Ricku said:
zlatko said:
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech. It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution. No problems with it at all. I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.
Aah! I almost couldn't tell if you were joking or being serious.

Please use some ::) :eek: :-* :p ;D faces when telling a joke.
100% serious. I'm making great photos with Canon. Their sensor technology proves itself week after week. Also, Canon service is phenomenal. I broke 2 lenses in an accident last week and received them fixed by Canon in just 7 days door to door; that includes shipping time and a 3-day holiday weekend.
 

JohnDizzo15

EOS RP
Aug 23, 2013
524
0
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

drjlo said:
JohnDizzo15 said:
my feeling is that the people that are heavily invested in the Canon or Nikon ecosystem will not be quick to jump ship as most of us aren't looking to manually focus (for all intents and purposes) all of our glass. This is not to say there are not some people that would be completely fine with this.

Regardless, if the price comes down a bit, I may not be able to resist just picking one up to have that oh so sweet 36 mp sensor in my bag as I could still put that to good use in some instances.

While I agree not too many would "jump ship," I can see many people having both Canon and Sony bodies for their L glass collection, e.g. myself.

Sure, AF will be slow via Metabones and L glass, but if I'm shooting landscape with L glass on that 36 MP D800e sensor, who cares. The fact is Nikon bodies can't take L glass, adapter or not. I for one would love to see the results from my Canon TS-E 24 MM II on that 36 MP sensor. The other thing is, if Canon had come out with something like A7 or A7r, the price would be way higher than what Sony is charging. I figure, I will wait a year or so, buy the A7r after price comes down and while on some Holiday sale ;D

Agreed on all points.

I too am very enthused about the thought of using all three of my TSEs, the Zeiss 50/2, and a ton of legacy lenses that would work insanely well on a Sony body of this type (focus peaking, etc). Only problem is, I don't want to pay 2300 to use just those lenses for very specific instances as I would still prefer my 5D3 for everything else. As such, the A7r would be very limited in scope for the types of work I would be doing with it which wouldn't justify the initial price tag. Much like you, I will wait to see what type of price drops occur in a year before I would seriously consider it.

Also, if Canon announces their big megapixel body between now and then, I would be more than willing to shell out at least 2-3 times the price of the A7r to be able to have something native for all my glass that has all of the ergonomics I am accustomed to. So a few things have to occur before I am willing to consider having the Canon and Sony bodies running side by side.
 

SpaceGhost

Canon is the Strawberry Jam!
Jul 19, 2012
24
19
Texas
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I am also a big Canon guy but my loyalty extends only as far as Canon gives back. I do feel that lately Canon has been moving much slower. I have been much more excited about Sony's developments. However, I feel better equiped with my pro gear (what I rely on) coming from Canon, but my secondary camera stuff (like my travel stuff) HAS moved to Sony, particularly the NEX-7 with the Sigma 19mm lens.

My only disappointment is the lack of quality lens from Sony for the NEX line without adapters (or doesn't cost way too much for a secondary body).

I have to say, that the Sony a7R looks very intriguing and the launch lens all look great too, much better (and more expensive) than the NEX launch but seems to be a better match. I currently plan on buying a7R as a holiday gift to myself, because I of course earned it! Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Ironically, I like the retro look, I may get less looks from thieves hopefully. :)
 

Ricku

EOS RP
May 20, 2011
493
0
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

zlatko said:
Ricku said:
zlatko said:
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech. It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution. No problems with it at all. I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.
Aah! I almost couldn't tell if you were joking or being serious.

Please use some ::) :eek: :-* :p ;D faces when telling a joke.
100% serious. I'm making great photos with Canon. Their sensor technology proves itself week after week. Also, Canon service is phenomenal. I broke 2 lenses in an accident last week and received them fixed by Canon in just 7 days door to door; that includes shipping time and a 3-day holiday weekend.
Ah. Well, opinions doesn't change facts. The fact is that Canon is way behind in both resolution and DR.

Dynamic range is the worst. Canon haven't improved on base ISO since the 5D2, and they haven't even figured out a way to get rid of the shadow banding.

But It's cool that you are cool with that. I guess it depends on personal standards really.. I mean, some people thinks that the output from a Powetshot camera is fantastic. :) Good for them! Good for you.
 

baervan

EOS M50
Mar 16, 2013
36
0
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

excuse me for the perhaps stupid question, but why Sony produced these cameras with the E mount, don't they have already full frame lenses on the A mount? wouldn't it make more sense to give it a native A with already available lenses instead a mount for which they still have to come out with some? I mean the current E mount line is only crop isnt it?
 

Dylan777

EOS-1D X Mark III
Nov 17, 2011
5,514
10
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

baervan said:
excuse me for the perhaps stupid question, but why Sony produced these cameras with the E mount, don't they have already full frame lenses on the A mount? wouldn't it make more sense to give it a native A with already available lenses instead a mount for which they still have to come out with some? I mean the current E mount line is only crop isnt it?

SIZE is matter...in mirrorless world small body + small lens = win
 

zlatko

EOS RP
Aug 27, 2013
617
0
www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Ricku said:
zlatko said:
Ricku said:
zlatko said:
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech. It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution. No problems with it at all. I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.
Aah! I almost couldn't tell if you were joking or being serious.

Please use some ::) :eek: :-* :p ;D faces when telling a joke.
100% serious. I'm making great photos with Canon. Their sensor technology proves itself week after week. Also, Canon service is phenomenal. I broke 2 lenses in an accident last week and received them fixed by Canon in just 7 days door to door; that includes shipping time and a 3-day holiday weekend.
Ah. Well, opinions doesn't change facts. The fact is that Canon is way behind in both resolution and DR.

Dynamic range is the worst. Canon haven't improved on base ISO since the 5D2, and they haven't even figured out a way to get rid of the shadow banding.

But It's cool that you are cool with that. I guess it depends on personal standards really.. I mean, some people thinks that the output from a Powetshot camera is fantastic. :) Good for them! Good for you.
I really don't experience any of those issues. No shadow banding, etc. Base ISO has never been a problem. High ISO has steadily improved. And dynamic range is excellent. Canon may not meet the standards of some anonymous people, but it meets the standards of a long list of renowned photographers, and a much longer list of not-renowned but very good working photographers and videographers. I don't buy the arguments about dynamic range. As I remember, color slide film (Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Velvia, etc.) had the "worst" dynamic range, and yet it was used by some great photographers (with great results) and praised in publishing, advertising, fine art, etc. The quest for infinite dynamic range, infinite ISO, etc., is a worthy one, but sensors long ago met the technical threshold for high quality work. So it's really not a worry.
 
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
1
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

torger said:
For us landscape photographers the wait for a high megapixel body with state-of-the-art dynamic range to be used with lenses like the TS-E 24 II has been tough. But now it's possible at last, with a Sony!

It's pretty ridiculous that the company that had once been THE only player in the FF game will now be the last to offer a super high MP, high low ISO DR body (Nikon has had one for a long while and SONY now has one, Canon.... chirp chirp chirp). Many said this was coming, the fanboys called them trolls. Well who proved to be the real trolls in the end? Canon went from being all about engineers to being all about business majors and marketing types and milk, milk, milk. It's not like Canon couldn't have done things, they just decided they didn't have to, they told us they were a decade ahead and needn't bother doing anything....

And the thing is, there is an adapter for Canon glass for this new Sony so for static or relatively static work there is basically all but zero cost to play. You just buy and adapter and maybe a spare battery and you are set to go, using all of your current lenses with it. I suppose Canon might not care that much though since they probably make more off of glass than bodies (?).

Not sure I'd instantly jump on this since perhaps canon finally gets sensors with better DR next year?

Maybe this prompts them to give a development announcement very soon to prevent people from blowing their money on this Sony?

You could keep a 5D3 for movies and action stills and general stuff and all your Canon glass and then add a Sony with adapter for all your landscape and other such photography. I already see many Canon people putting in orders for the new Sony.
 
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
1
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

J.R. said:
all these new cameras are great. However, the breaking point will only arrive if and when Sony can come up with lenses as good as the 24-70 II, 70-200 II, etc.

For me there is no point buying a Ferrari chassis and pairing it with a Mazda engine.

As a second / travel kit probably it is great but the lens collection is too small to be a primary kit. I might consider it once the option for the lenses grow in time.

Cheers ... J.R.

But that's the whole point. You don't have to get rid of your Canon stuff or add new Sony lenses (at least for static stuff) just get the metabones adapter and all your lenses work on this body (even with AF, although it will be too slow for action and perhaps some, if not all, wildlife shooting).
 
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
1
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

torger said:
I could potentially buy it with a metabones adapter just to use it with my Canon lenses for landscape photography, and then sell the body when/if Canon comes up with something at the same level of performance. The big investment is in lenses.

I think Canon big megapixel is still quite far away, and I doubt that the first camera will be as good in the dynamic range department as Sony.

Canon have some really great lenses though just waiting to be used with a great sensor. With Canon's own bodies it's like using a Ferrari engine (lens) on a Mazda chassis (camera)...

+1
 

zlatko

EOS RP
Aug 27, 2013
617
0
www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

baervan said:
excuse me for the perhaps stupid question, but why Sony produced these cameras with the E mount, don't they have already full frame lenses on the A mount? wouldn't it make more sense to give it a native A with already available lenses instead a mount for which they still have to come out with some? I mean the current E mount line is only crop isnt it?
The A mount is full-frame but the lenses are made for a greater distance from sensor to lens. E mount lenses are made for a shorter distance. I guess the E mount circle is big enough for full-frame, not just crop (?).
 
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
1
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Ricku said:
J.R. said:
Funny how many people want to jump ship in a few years because Sony is supposedly to be the next big thing. Everyone has expectations that Sony will have great glass to go with the mirrorless in the near future. Canon will simply stand still ... eh?

With such great expectations from a company that is not even making a profit on the electronics division, people around here tend to think that Canon, the largest Camera selling company for the past decade, won't come up with something comparable, if not better.
Jump ship? I guess you missed the part about this camera being able to use lenses from Nikon, Leica, Zeiss and Canon.

I am not jumping ship. I am simply not buying another body from Canon until they release a high resolution, high DR camera, in a light and affordable package.

The A7R will keep me entertained until then.

+1

5D3 handles action stuff fine, does movies (WITH ML RAW as well as anything)

A7R gives you super DR for landscape work

sure it would be much nicer to have it in one body (especially since it might be tough to take full advantage of the extra reach for wildlife due to the AF being slow with Canon lenses when used on the A7R) but in the meantime it at least gets your top quality landscape type stuff covered well and WITH Canon glass so it's not a big deal move

when Canon releases one then sell this (or, if Canon simply won't bother with better DR or decides to make it 1DsX $8000 type deal only, then just keep using this for the next few years and forget about buying another Canon body for at least five more years)
 
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
1
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

torger said:
I think this is the adapter: http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter

Focusing performance etc won't be great of course, but I would be using this camera for landscape and still life (for hand-held action and high ISO Canon is very competitive indeed already), ie manual focus via live-view off a tripod.

Say if it's 1 year until Canon releases it's first big megapixel, and it still lacks in DR (I think it will), and then 2 more years before they become competitive at that point. Having an A7R meanwhile at the same time as say a 5D mark III and use Canon glass via adapter seems like a quite good idea. Sure an extra body on the side only for landscape/still life is an expensive solution, but looking the pile of L glass the main cost is there, not in the bodies, and you would get some residual value off the Sony when selling it second hand when you can get a Canon of corresponding functionality.

Saying that this camera is slow and and focusing performance sucks is missing the point. What we should be excited about is that high resolution high DR sensor and the ability to use our excellent Canon glass with it. If you don't desire this resolution or DR then you don't need to look at it.

+1
 
Aug 6, 2012
1,464
0
www.flickr.com
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

This would be a perfect 2nd camera for me. My canon lenses wont be wasted, spectacular DR, compact, almost no effect on my workflow and can still switch back seamlessly to Canon if and when it offers a better option... What's not to like? Time to save some extras again...
 

Woody

EOS R
Jul 20, 2010
1,162
88
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Dylan777 said:
SIZE is matter...in mirrorless world small body + small lens = win

Only to some extent. Sony's upcoming E-mount 70-200 f/4 OSS and 70-200 f/2.8 zooms are not any lighter than Canon's counterpart.
 

wickidwombat

EOS R5
Oct 27, 2011
4,543
0
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

i'm pretty interested in the 7R and the 55 f1.8 as a combo since currently all 50mm lenses for canon stink IMO
and of course an adapter to use all my canon glass. I wont be getting rid of my canon stuff anytime soon though but something like this has potential! I have less than 0 interest in a canon high MP body if it is a 1D sized brick if it was 5Dmk3 size id be keen.

while this thread has been based entirely on specs of sensors AF tech details etc I havent seen any feedback on how the thing handles, ergonomics UI etc? anyone thats spent some time with one care to comment on the useability of this beast compared to say a 5Dmk3?