Official: Canon EOS 7D Mark II

[RodS57]

Lee Jay I can't imagine having a cellphone for 7 years! so curious, what kind is it??

All of them I've ever had, several brands. I'm only 2 years into my Galaxy S3 at the moment. Haven't considered upgrading.

I live in Colorado too, the "big landscape state". I think I've taken about 5 landscapes in my life, and only one of them in Colorado. That was a big panorama taken with a state of the art camera, a Nikon Coolpix 950!

Although this is obviously not related to the subject of this thread I find it more interesting then the constant 'It has / It doesn't have.' posts related to the 7D2.

I think upgrading is more personal inclination than anything else. My cell is 2006 vintage as is my main computer. I still have a record player that I bought in 1974. Sort of the old adage: if it's not broke don't fix it. I used my 4meg P&S for 8 years and only picked up the T3i two years ago. I do have the 7D2 on pre-order as my renewed interest in photography has highlighted some of the deficiencies of the T3i.

I also think the purchase / upgrade cycle is affected by association as well. A year and a half ago a guy at work used to bring in new pictures to show people almost every day. All of a sudden there were people, who had shown no interest in photography, coming to work showing of the cameras they had just bought. Maybe it is the 'keep up with the neighbours' syndrome.

Rod

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Lee Jay I can't imagine having a cellphone for 7 years! so curious, what kind is it??

All of them I've ever had, several brands. I'm only 2 years into my Galaxy S3 at the moment. Haven't considered upgrading.

I live in Colorado too, the "big landscape state". I think I've taken about 5 landscapes in my life, and only one of them in Colorado. That was a big panorama taken with a state of the art camera, a Nikon Coolpix 950!

Different circles then. There are many well known landscape photographers who live in this state. One in particular is exceptionally well known, John Fielder. This IS a big landscape state, and people DO spend a lot of time taking landscape photos here. Go hiking up in the highlands above the Maroon Bells, or in the Uncomphagre wilderness, or San Juan range, and you'll see a ton of people with DSLRs.

I think your less a representative of "the norm" than you might think.

If "the norm" for dSLR owners in Colorado is landscape photography and obsession about DR, then you're right on target.

I suspect that once again, you're assuming your needs/wants/habits are those of the majority. They're not.

You seriously don't think that landscape photography is a big thing, in of all places, Colorado?

 

[Sporgon]

Lee Jay I can't imagine having a cellphone for 7 years! so curious, what kind is it??

All of them I've ever had, several brands. I'm only 2 years into my Galaxy S3 at the moment. Haven't considered upgrading.

I live in Colorado too, the "big landscape state". I think I've taken about 5 landscapes in my life, and only one of them in Colorado. That was a big panorama taken with a state of the art camera, a Nikon Coolpix 950!

Different circles then. There are many well known landscape photographers who live in this state. One in particular is exceptionally well known, John Fielder. This IS a big landscape state, and people DO spend a lot of time taking landscape photos here. Go hiking up in the highlands above the Maroon Bells, or in the Uncomphagre wilderness, or San Juan range, and you'll see a ton of people with DSLRs.

I think your less a representative of "the norm" than you might think.

You do realise that John Fielder uses Canon I presume ?

 

[Loswr]

Lee Jay I can't imagine having a cellphone for 7 years! so curious, what kind is it??

All of them I've ever had, several brands. I'm only 2 years into my Galaxy S3 at the moment. Haven't considered upgrading.

I live in Colorado too, the "big landscape state". I think I've taken about 5 landscapes in my life, and only one of them in Colorado. That was a big panorama taken with a state of the art camera, a Nikon Coolpix 950!

Different circles then. There are many well known landscape photographers who live in this state. One in particular is exceptionally well known, John Fielder. This IS a big landscape state, and people DO spend a lot of time taking landscape photos here. Go hiking up in the highlands above the Maroon Bells, or in the Uncomphagre wilderness, or San Juan range, and you'll see a ton of people with DSLRs.

I think your less a representative of "the norm" than you might think.

If "the norm" for dSLR owners in Colorado is landscape photography and obsession about DR, then you're right on target.

I suspect that once again, you're assuming your needs/wants/habits are those of the majority. They're not.

You seriously don't think that landscape photography is a big thing, in of all places, Colorado?

I'm sure landscape photography is popular in Colorado. There's a difference between 'popular' and 'the norm'. What fraction of dSLRs sold in Colorado are bought for landscape photography compared to, for example, Devner parents wanting to take pictures of their kids?

Also, note what I stated..."landscape photography and obsession about DR." I think the number of people who frequent Internet forums writing post upon post lamenting Canon's supposed lack of DR and extolling the virtues of Exmor (despite not having actually used one), who download pictures someone else took of Diet Coke boxes and re-process them to prove a point, etc., is an insignificant fraction of dSLR owners, in Colorado or anywhere else.

As Sporgon points out, the 'exceptionally well known' landscape photographer John Fielder mentioned by jrista shoots Canon. He has this to say: "I recommend Canon over any other brand."

John Fielder is pretty well known, and creates very impressive images. Gotta feel bad for him though, since according to jrista he's wasting an inordinate amount of time struggling to overcome the severe limitations and liabilities of Canon sensors. I wonder...is Fielder a glutton for punishment and too stubborn to move to a much better system? Is he too ignorant to be cognizant of and comprehend how he's suffering and how easy it would be to change his life and photography for the better if only he'd switch to Exmor? Or perhaps, just perhaps, is jrista's opinion about how poor Canon sensors are for landscape photography not such 'the norm' as he apparently believes?

 

[DominoDude]

The daily dictionary offers these two words for the day:

Forward - a direction, a movement that leads somewhere
Iterate - see Iterate

 

[Eldar]

You guys are so vehemently against anyone saying anything negative about Canon that you readily stoop to twisting peoples words, or handily assuming they said something other than they did, then repeating those assumptions as though they are fact. I'm a Canon fan myself, I'm just sick and tired of their nasty crappy read noise. I literally cannot wait for Canon to produce a better sensor (something I believe they are more than capable of doing)...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.

jrista, for what it´s worth, I totally agree! Canon is behind and they should take us more seriously. I have never understood the enormous urge some have to defend Canon for their sensor quality. We should stand shoulder to shoulder and make sure Canon is aware of what we think.

It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon, because it is flat where I live and fuel is cheap and I don´t want to be caught speeding and the roads are pretty straight and it never gets really hot ...

IF Canon had delivered the D800 sensor performance and not Nikon. I am confident that we would have seen loads of posts here, praising Canon for the sensor performance and ridiculing the poor sods in the Nikon camp.

I was inches away from getting the Pentax 645z this summer. I didn´t, for three reasons. I was (unrealistically) hoping for a d810 basher at Photokina, I am a bit skeptical to the Pentax lens lineup and I don´t want to carry more equipment on a trip. But my patience is running thin.

I have been a very good Canon customer. Edward (eml58) is an even better Canon customer, whom I understand is even more impatient than me. I give advice to lots of people about camera systems, which I am sure lots of you others are doing also. In the past I have faithfully recommended Canon. In some cases I still do, depending on what they need, but very often I now recommend other brands.

Yes, I know I am only one and yes I know some will say that I am not typical. But I shoot people, landscape, wildlife, macro, events, sports and pretty much anything I come across. So I am not in an obscure corner of the photographic world. I want my portfolio to cover everything. If we all were offered a Canon camera with 40MP, with 14 stop DR and fps and ISO performance in line with what we have, Where you could do 20MP MRAW when you didn´t need the full resolution, or have an APS-C mode with full resolution, I don´t believe a single soul on this forum would say no and continue to defend the current Canon sensor performance.

This is very simple; If you want something in life, make your position heard. So instead of bashing jrista for his views and his sometimes not 100% thought through points (how could they be at that writing speed ), you should agree on the substance and help push Canon to deliver what we want.

 

[9VIII]

...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.

I know everyone uses hyperbole sometimes, but after that speech, your next post had better show a receipt for a D810.

 

[Eldar]

...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.

I know everyone uses hyperbole sometimes, but after that speech, your next post had better show a receipt for a D810.

Impressive! You really got the point ... :

 

[Sporgon]

You guys are so vehemently against anyone saying anything negative about Canon that you readily stoop to twisting peoples words, or handily assuming they said something other than they did, then repeating those assumptions as though they are fact. I'm a Canon fan myself, I'm just sick and tired of their nasty crappy read noise. I literally cannot wait for Canon to produce a better sensor (something I believe they are more than capable of doing)...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.

jrista, for what it´s worth, I totally agree! Canon is behind and they should take us more seriously. I have never understood the enormous urge some have to defend Canon for their sensor quality. We should stand shoulder to shoulder and make sure Canon is aware of what we think.

It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon, because it is flat where I live and fuel is cheap and I don´t want to be caught speeding and the roads are pretty straight and it never gets really hot ...

IF Canon had delivered the D800 sensor performance and not Nikon. I am confident that we would have seen loads of posts here, praising Canon for the sensor performance and ridiculing the poor sods in the Nikon camp.

I was inches away from getting the Pentax 645z this summer. I didn´t, for three reasons. I was (unrealistically) hoping for a d810 basher at Photokina, I am a bit skeptical to the Pentax lens lineup and I don´t want to carry more equipment on a trip. But my patience is running thin.

That is not an appropriate analogy. The 'defence' of the current Canon sensors only begins when someone claims that the Exmor has basically made the Canon redundant overnight, and that the Canon is 'only suitable for landscapes up to 10x8', or 'posting on Facebook', or 'noise / banding is so bad I can't use the camera'.

In normal use, at low ISO, there is simply no difference. In the scheme of things very few people want to lift shadows by three stops. In fact I would go so far as the say the tonal graduation on the 1Dx is probably better. Certainly within the professional business of photography in which I deal the general concessus was that in the days of the D3x Nikon had the edge on pure 'IQ'. Opinion has generally changed since the arrival of the 1Dx.

If you are looking to realise more image quality than can be produced by your 1Dx I would strongly advise looking at the Pentax 645z rather than a D810. I wouldn't worry too much on the lenses because once you own the camera you will establish when and where you use it and I think you will find the lenses are OK. Also you could adapt the many Pentax 67 lenses, though don't expect ultra sharp images.

 

[StudentOfLight]

[CR-0]
I can't wait for Nikon to announce their D810-C, . i.e Nikon D810 with Canon EF mount.

 

[Loswr]

It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon...

Interesting that your analogy includes not just the engine, but the transmission, handling, drive train, and ergonomics. It almost sounds like you're talking about system performance... ???

If you believe another brand offers better overall system performance, and you can afford to switch, you should switch. It's that simple.

Now...if you prefer the overall system performance of your system, but prefer one particular aspect of another brand's system, then you're in something of a pickle. Now, instead of being able to take independent action, you are asking a major corporation to make a particular change – and the spend associated with that change – for you. If you happen to be one of a majority of their customers clamoring for that change, you'll likely get it (much like the 5DIII getting a massive AF improvement over the 5DII). But if you're part of a small minority asking for that change, be prepared for disappointment.

I'm not saying more MP or more DR are bad things. I'm not saying they're not useful. I'm saying if you want something, and the majority of a company of a company's customers/market don't see that as a need, you're probably not going to get what you want. That's reality, and shooting the messenger won't change it.

 

[zim]

Wouldn't this whole sensor read noise debate not be better served over at http://forums.usa.canon.com
They do actually have Canon people participating in those forums, ineffective? Certainly no less so than here!

 

[Eldar]

It is like someone defending his old, slow, unstable, back wheel drive, 3 speed, monster V8, with 10 miles/gallon, no sound proofing and a rotten air-condition, against a fast, 4-wheel drive, 8 speed, hybrid, quiet car, with climate zones and 60 miles/gallon...

Interesting that your analogy includes not just the engine, but the transmission, handling, drive train, and ergonomics. It almost sounds like you're talking about system performance... ???

If you believe another brand offers better overall system performance, and you can afford to switch, you should switch. It's that simple.

Now...if you prefer the overall system performance of your system, but prefer one particular aspect of another brand's system, then you're in something of a pickle. Now, instead of being able to take independent action, you are asking a major corporation to make a particular change – and the spend associated with that change – for you. If you happen to be one of a majority of their customers clamoring for that change, you'll likely get it (much like the 5DIII getting a massive AF improvement over the 5DII). But if you're part of a small minority asking for that change, be prepared for disappointment.

I'm not saying more MP or more DR are bad things. I'm not saying they're not useful. I'm saying if you want something, and the majority of a company of a company's customers/market don't see that as a need, you're probably not going to get what you want. That's reality, and shooting the messenger won't change it.

The only thing Nikon/Sony (and a few other) have that I want is the sensor. The car analogy was poor, because I should have made a less broad metaphor. I don't want a D810. i don't want a 645z either. I want a 1DX body with a 40MP (or thereabout) sensor, with significant DR improvement. If I could get a MRAW around 20MP and an APS-C mode with full resolution and +8 fps I promis to be a good boy for a very long time.

Yes, for 95% of my shooting, a 1DX is perfect and for those 95% I love that camera. But I want the remaining 5% also.

The majority of Canon's SLR customers, pros and enthusiasts excluded, buys into a brand and does not have a clue about these issues. Canon is well aware of that.

Having read some of these threads, I wonder which messenger you refer to.

 

[East Wind Photography]

I kind of agree with you. If people are ready to jump ship to someone other than Canon due to read noise they are blindly ignoring the other aspects of Canon cameras that makes them far better than the competition.

I for one wont invest in Nikon due to their consistent unreliability. They are fine for consumers who use them for fun but when your livelihood and reputation are on the line you want equipment that will not break down in the harshest of conditions.

If the shots you are taking as so specialized that read noise is deal breaker then maybe you should be looking at some other technology that involves chip cooling and other technologies specifically designed for low light, high gain, photography.

No one likes noise in their images but don't ignore the other aspects that make Canon a better choice.

Those that speak for others on this forum are completely out of line. Some of the images that are posted are better than top of the class and to say they are "impatient" with Canons noise progress is pretty ridiculous and invalidates most of their points and consideration here.

Wouldn't this whole sensor read noise debate not be better served over at http://forums.usa.canon.com
They do actually have Canon people participating in those forums, ineffective? Certainly no less so than here!

 

[9VIII]

...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.

I know everyone uses hyperbole sometimes, but after that speech, your next post had better show a receipt for a D810.

Impressive! You really got the point ... :

8) I've got my blinders on and I don't believe anything you say.
I'm just not done waiting.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Canon never makes another sensor it'll still be a long time before Nikon has a system that I want to switch to.
Maybe when they have a 64MP sensor, or come out with a good budget 400mm lens (their latest 80-400 is still a hunk of junk at the long end).
I don't want Jrista to go away, I want him to get that camera and enjoy it.

 

[Eldar]

...I really want them to improve their sensor IQ, but I'm done waiting.

I know everyone uses hyperbole sometimes, but after that speech, your next post had better show a receipt for a D810.

Impressive! You really got the point ... :

8) I've got my blinders on and I don't believe anything you say.
I'm just not done waiting.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If Canon never makes another sensor it'll still be a long time before Nikon has a system that I want to switch to.
Maybe when they have a 64MP sensor, or come out with a good budget 400mm lens (their latest 80-400 is still a hunk of junk at the long end).
I don't want Jrista to go away, I want him to get that camera and enjoy it.

He he, if we skip the "don't believe" bit, we seem to agree
(i'll stay a long time also, but I'll stop buying new Canon gear)

 

[marinien]

And just like Neuro, this was one of my most frequently used mode

Zone AF was your most frequently used mode? What types of photography are you doing? For my wildlife stuff, I use spot AF / AI servo with my 7D almost exclusively. I have trouble enough getting the focus I want with that and can't see how zone AF would work.

No no, not Zone AF . Zone AF doesn't let you choose the initial AF point. The mode that Neuro and I were talking about is Automatic AF Point Selection (yes, the one for people who don't really care about what should be in focus). And when you are in Automatic AF Point Selection AND AI Servo, you can select the initial AF point for tracking (I know, it is not really intuitive, and may be that's why the feature's been there for 5 years and still is ignored by some). The advantage of this mode is that all the AF points are used for tracking, so when the subject quits the initial AF point, the other points will take care of it.

YMMV, but I'd avoid using Spot AF combined with AI Servo. Spot AF uses a narrower area for acquiring focus, so it is slower to acquire focus, and it is more difficult to keep the subject within that (narrower) area.

Here are some photos I took with my 7D and my 100mm L Macro, I wish I had the 1D X/5D III and the 70-200mm f/2.8 II L IS for these situations, but that was all I could afford

 

[unfocused]

I also do believe it is a fact that Canon sensors are at the back of the pack these days. I believe their noise quality sucks, and that they should do something about it...

You guys are so vehemently against anyone saying anything negative about Canon that you readily stoop to twisting peoples words, or handily assuming they said something other than they did, then repeating those assumptions as though they are fact...

...Your not going to let some wackjob voice his dissenting opinon on Canon Rumors forums...

I believe Canon has fallen behind...

THIS IS MY OPINION. It's not going to change because a bunch of guys on a forum try to bully it out of me. You guys are a pretty sad bunch, stooping to any low level possible to either disprove, debase, emberass or run out of town anyone who has a dissenting opinion...

So what is the deal? You guys cannot tolerate any dissenting opinion, so your just going to do everything in your power to run anyone who has a dissenting opinion out of town? By belittling them, insulting them, or otherwise debasing them? Regardless of how you have to ignore context or twist or ignore words or make unverified assumptions about what someone is saying, and then reformulate peoples claims in your own words? Really disgusting display, guys.

I'm sorry, but this just begs for a response.

No one has tried to stop you from posting your opinion. In fact if someone were to do a word count of all posts on this forum, I'd bet you would come in at number one.

But posting your opinion doesn't make you right and others have every right to disagree and point out where you are wrong.

The problem I see is that you cannot accept the validity of anyone else's opinion and insist that the problems you think exist with Canon sensors are critical and real, when many others feel strongly that the issues you raise are grossly exaggerated, insignificant, rely on faulty data, imaginary or simply not that important.

That doesn't make you smarter or more discerning than others and it certainly doesn't make you right and others wrong.

Lately as more and more people have disagreed with your rants (and many can only be described as rants) you've taken to playing the martyr. Which is amply demonstrated by the quotes above.

Frankly Neuro, Sporgon, DTaylor, Private and many others have been remarkably patient in responding and refuting your claims, as well as in presenting alternative views.

Yet your post shows that you can't seem to handle the criticism and lash out at those who disagree.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to think your opinion is a bunch of crap and to say so, because after all, no matter how much pseudo science you wrap it in, it is nothing more than your opinion.

 

[zlatko]

jrista, for what it´s worth, I totally agree! Canon is behind and they should take us more seriously. I have never understood the enormous urge some have to defend Canon for their sensor quality. We should stand shoulder to shoulder and make sure Canon is aware of what we think.

....

IF Canon had delivered the D800 sensor performance and not Nikon. I am confident that we would have seen loads of posts here, praising Canon for the sensor performance and ridiculing the poor sods in the Nikon camp.

Whenever I read "Canon has fallen behind" I start to wonder if there is something to that claim, but then I go and look at the latest photos I've made with Canon and all is good again. In fact, better than good. And when I look at raw files shot with Nikon sensors, I have to scratch my head and ask what the heck the fuss is about. The files aren't the slightest bit more appealing to me, and the color is often worse.

I don't have any "enormous urge" to defend Canon, but I do have a real self-interest in having cameras that do what I need from them. I tried Nikon in 2011 and was not impressed. If their sensors offered some special magic for me, I would switch and would not be reading Canon Rumors. Within 2 weeks, everything Canon would be sold on eBay and shipped to new owners, and a load of new Nikon gear would be at my door.

If Canon made a camera with the D800 / D810 sensor, I would be very happy for the photographers for whom it met a need, but I would not buy it myself. I simply don't need what it offers, and Canon is already delivering what I want. I don't shoot all of the subjects that you shoot, and I understand that different photographers have different needs. I don't understand someone sticking with Canon if it doesn't meet their needs.

 

[wickidwombat]

It's not that people disagree...it's how they disagree...well, how a few specific people disagree. I've been compared to Mikael a few times, in thinly veiled contempt...a guy who came here for no other reason than to spew anti-Canon hate about everything Canon. Yeah, that's a bit insulting, and I took offense to it. I've never spewed anti-Canon hate...just a distaste for their sensor IQ.

Whatever. You guys are sick and tired of hearing it, I'm sick and tired of debating it. I won't be bothering anyone anymore with my opinions. That should make a few of you ecstatic. :-X

You are nothing like that nutjob...

Also I don't think there is anyone here that believes canons sensor is better than sonikon in low iso DR either.

But I am one of many who are TOTALLY over seeing EVERY SINGLE thread get sidetracked and railroaded into these discussions / debates.

Personally I still prefer the canon system overall. Yeah the sensor could be better, but hey i'll keep bracketing while i wait for a 24 stop DR sensor to come out.

I have personally compared the EOS-M and the sony a6000 side by side since and overall i still prefer the EOS-M about the only aspect I saw the a6000 better the EOS-M was iso 100 shadow recovery, high iso was a wash, AF was not much different the a6000 seems to lock nice and quick but most shots were out of focus and i find with the right lens the EOS-M performs pretty well in servo mode. certainly better than the a6000 did anyway as far as sharp keepers go.

Anyway i certainly am one who is looking forward to less constant debating this as it is really boring.