? on why Canon ignored...

[EYEONE]

The 7D is NOT a small 1D. It is a clearly inferior camera aimed at a very different market.

There are so many arguments against what you just said...

But anyway, I believe a qualification of an L-Series lens is that it has to work on every EOS camera. An L-Series EF-S lens would not mount on a EOS film camera. Case closed.

I wanted sooo much to bite my tongue on this comment however I cant... AFTERALL, Clearly, the 7d is an inferior camera... ummmm yep... sounds right to me... <Sarcasm> The 5d2 was always seen as a baby 1ds and the 7d has had a reputation of a baby 1d. This is the point the original poster was referring to... Does the 7D have the quantity of AF points of a 1D, no. Does the 7D have the built in grip and imposing size? no. Does it have audio recording or the 1.3 sensor? No. That being said, it's smaller and more versatile and may get into venues up probably couldn't get into with the 1d without a press credential. The 7D is weathersealed and tough... It has an overall AF system that leaves 5d2 only owner envious, or even nikon D300 owners... From a pro who's used both, both are fine cameras and both have their rightful place in the lineup and markets... To dismiss the 7d so flippantly hints at your ignorance. Once again professional photographers are able to make the most out of their gear to meet their clients needs.

You got a lot of mis information about that one sentance. See my signature? I shoot with a 7D. I love the 7D, it's an amazing camera. It's my one and only body at the moment. I've used it for weddings, engagements, portraits and concerts. Where in my post did you see "the 7D sucks"?

What I said was (and it's a fact that I find hard to argue against) is that the 7D is not a 1D. It's just not. It is not as feature packed or capable as the 1D Mark IV. That's not to say that it doesn't take incredible pictures and video. I still hold that it's a better camera than the D7000 and the A77 after 2 years. As I said it is the camera I use right now. And I'll keep it as a secondary camera when the time to upgrade comes. That should show you what I think of the 7D.

I do not see why you chose to attack my post and call me ignorant for something that I did not even say.

 

[Loswr]

...the 7D is not a 1D. It's just not. It is not as feature packed or capable as the 1D Mark IV.

Exactly my point as well. No one is saying the 7D isn't good. I have one, too, and even after I get a 1D X, I'll still use the 7D when appropriate. But saying it's as good as a 1D just isn't true. Period. That's not the same as saying the pictures you get from the 7D can't equal or exceed those from a 1D IV. I do understand that it's the result that matters. But tools matter, too. There are certainly situations where the better AI Servo tracking, the extra 2 fps, or the ISO capabilities of the 1D IV will enable a shot that wouldn't come from a 7D.

I suspect we're saying all the same thing. An Estwing hammer is 'better' than a Stanley. Estwing is the preferred hammer among construction professionals, but sure, you'll see lots of Stanleys in their hands, too. Why is Estwing preferred? Because it's a better hammer, and the Stanley is inferior. But both of them can pound in a nail...or, in the hands of someone with less skill, they can both bend that nail.

 

[unfocused]

There is a complicating factor here that needs to be acknowledged: with Canon abandoning the APS-H sensor, no one knows what direction they will go in the future to meet the demands of photographers who relied on the extra reach of the 1.3 crop factor of the 1D.

For now, Canon seems to be playing some games with that customer base (promoting "up sampling" for example as a viable alternative to greater resolution). I think they will be watching that market very closely to see if some of these photographers migrate to the 7D, possibly as a second body.

The 7D might not be as indestructible as the 1D series, but it is does have a robust build and could certainly hold its own under most conditions. My own sense is that there may not be enough room in the marketplace for a APS-C body significantly above the 7D. However, I am not privy to Canon's manufacturing costs, so I don't know if it would be cost effective to offer a bombproof, one-piece gripped 7D X version. At a minimum, a 7DII that inherits enough key features of the 1DX to make it attractive to professionals, while still affordable for enthusiasts is plausible.

If there is anything we've learned from Canon over the past two months, it is that past behavior is not an accurate predictor of future behavior. Canon has demonstrated that they are unafraid to take new and unpredictable paths.

 

[awinphoto]

I do not see why you chose to attack my post and call me ignorant for something that I did not even say.

If you feel I wrongly targeted you regarding your posts, then I do appologise, however within this forum I've had several heated discussions with those whom have the opinion that anything less than a 1d camera is not worthy, and they couldn't get good images with anything else BUT a 1d body... This was a similar impression I gathered from your dismissal of the 7d that it was inferior, case closed...

I've always had/have the POV that if someone cannot get a certain image because you do not have a 1D series camera, then there's more to it than just the camera... That being said, Just me, personally, because I live and die by my cameras and equipment, I dont even spend time looking at the 1d cameras because it does me no good... I prefer to hone my skills more and make sure I can get the shots I need with what I have then obsessing about cameras I dont need to get my job done.

 

[EYEONE]

I do not see why you chose to attack my post and call me ignorant for something that I did not even say.

If you feel I wrongly targeted you regarding your posts, then I do appologise, however within this forum I've had several heated discussions with those whom have the opinion that anything less than a 1d camera is not worthy, and they couldn't get good images with anything else BUT a 1d body... This was a similar impression I gathered from your dismissal of the 7d that it was inferior, case closed...

I've always had/have the POV that if someone cannot get a certain image because you do not have a 1D series camera, then there's more to it than just the camera... That being said, Just me, personally, because I live and die by my cameras and equipment, I dont even spend time looking at the 1d cameras because it does me no good... I prefer to hone my skills more and make sure I can get the shots I need with what I have then obsessing about cameras I dont need to get my job done.

No worries.
I would agree with that. Incorrect composition is incorrect on a Rebel and on a 1Ds. A screw up on a Rebel is a screw up on a 1Ds.

 

[Neeneko]

While I do not know if it is true or not, the criteria I was once told had to do with the weather sealing, similar to the level of sealing on the 1Ds thus making a matched pair.

 

[Caps18]

Just last night I bit the bullet and ordered a 16-35 f/2.8L to replace my EF-S 15-85. I want/need weather sealing and a constant aperture. Now I need to save up to for another lens to fill the FL gap. Probably either the 24-105 4L or 24-70 2.8L

Play around with the 16-35mm for a while. It is a good lens. I went with the 85mm f1.8 prime, and you might want to think about something like that if you are going to be changing lenses anyway. I would like to try the 50mm in a head to head contest with it though (on my FF camera) to see if it would have worked better.


I think the reason they don't make EF-S L lenses is because the EF L lenses will work on a 50D or a 5D.

 

[wockawocka]

It wouldn't make much sense to stick a 2k piece of glass on a $300 body.

Really? Which would give you a better result - a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II on a T3, or a 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III on a 5DII? There's a reason for the 'glass before body' maxim.

Anyone who can buy an L lens should be able to afford a decent semi pro body, even if that's a used 5DC. The EF-S lenses are aimed at the Canon amateur range and are cheaper to reflect this. Canon doesn't need to make L series EF-S lenses as they fit all their cameras regardless. Sure, perhaps a L series 10-22mm would make sense but then they'll be merging the distinct categories between amateur and pro kit.

There's also something to be said about the ability of a camera to make use of the light an L lens shines on the sensor. I don't think the T3 would be as good as a 5D2...

 

[psycho5]

@cetalis

I love knowing my camera and lens has a very good chance in maintaining performance in katrina-like weather. As a soldier, longevity and durability are equally important as performance. sure the lenses you mentioned are nice, but not after the first dust storm or heavy rain.

Not all L lenses are weather sealed; is it weather sealed EF-S lenses that you want?

yes, weather sealing and better build construction that are just as rugged as the L series is definately something Canon should be thinking about. As of this moment I would NEVER buy an efs lens because all of them are plastic fantastics that wont last a single day out in the field.

Another issue I would like to bring up is the fact that there is no excuse for any DSLR manufacturer to make cheap products anymore... leave the china-made s*** to the 4/3s market and finally focus on quality engineering for ALL DSLRs and their corresponding lenses (EF, EFS)

 

[psycho5]

I dido the original comment/complaint. I too want L grade lens for my 7D.

My post from a few days ago:

Re: Realistic wish lens « on: November 09, 2011, 05:54:59 PM »

I don't think it is asking too much for an APS-C version of the 24-105 f/4L. There are plenty of serious crop shooters out here who want HQ lens. Yes, someday I'll get a 5D3 but I'm not getting rid of my 7D.

I want a 15-65 f/4L IS USM! I want IS, weather resistant, constant aperture, and for heck sakes Canon, include the hood and case. Excellent IQ goes without saying. I'm even OK with an EF-S version but prefer EF of course. If this was a 2.8 constant lens that would be even better but I'd be thrilled with a f/4. Furthermore, I think the price (for an f/4) should be about what the 24-105 f/4L is.

Am I missing something? Is this too difficult or pricey to build?

Just last night I bit the bullet and ordered a 16-35 f/2.8L to replace my EF-S 15-85. I want/need weather sealing and a constant aperture. Now I need to save up to for another lens to fill the FL gap. Probably either the 24-105 4L or 24-70 2.8L

You will love the 16-35 (my favorite lens on 7D) and the 24-70 is an amazing beast of a lens, I LOVE THEM! ;D the 70-200 is2 however sits at home more often than not

 

[AprilForever]

Why would anyone want the 7D to be a 1dmk4?

That's like trying to make your youngest son act like the oldest! Just not cool!

 

[psycho5]

There is a complicating factor here that needs to be acknowledged: with Canon abandoning the APS-H sensor, no one knows what direction they will go in the future to meet the demands of photographers who relied on the extra reach of the 1.3 crop factor of the 1D.

For now, Canon seems to be playing some games with that customer base (promoting "up sampling" for example as a viable alternative to greater resolution). I think they will be watching that market very closely to see if some of these photographers migrate to the 7D, possibly as a second body.

The 7D might not be as indestructible as the 1D series, but it is does have a robust build and could certainly hold its own under most conditions. My own sense is that there may not be enough room in the marketplace for a APS-C body significantly above the 7D. However, I am not privy to Canon's manufacturing costs, so I don't know if it would be cost effective to offer a bombproof, one-piece gripped 7D X version. At a minimum, a 7DII that inherits enough key features of the 1DX to make it attractive to professionals, while still affordable for enthusiasts is plausible.

If there is anything we've learned from Canon over the past two months, it is that past behavior is not an accurate predictor of future behavior. Canon has demonstrated that they are unafraid to take new and unpredictable paths.

THANK YOU, at least someone understands my point with the 7D! yes, its not labeled a 1D camera, but one doesnt have to look too far in the past to see how it outperforms the 1D series. The thing is a beast. it can definately hold its own.

Maybe the roadmap for the 7Dii contains the 1Dx sensor and the 60D becomes the successor to the 7D and the rebel becomes the new 70D... why not push everything up a notch and leave the sub-$1000 market to the 4/3 and point and shoot market? besides, the iphone is the number 1 most used camera reported on flickr... how many people are going to buy a cheap dslr over a free, highly capable point and shoot that comes with their iphone?

besides, I think several days ago CR posted a slide of Canon's roadmap and I didnt see any DSLR on the "consumer" side

what is "up sampling" anyways?

 

[AprilForever]

There is a complicating factor here that needs to be acknowledged: with Canon abandoning the APS-H sensor, no one knows what direction they will go in the future to meet the demands of photographers who relied on the extra reach of the 1.3 crop factor of the 1D.

For now, Canon seems to be playing some games with that customer base (promoting "up sampling" for example as a viable alternative to greater resolution). I think they will be watching that market very closely to see if some of these photographers migrate to the 7D, possibly as a second body.

The 7D might not be as indestructible as the 1D series, but it is does have a robust build and could certainly hold its own under most conditions. My own sense is that there may not be enough room in the marketplace for a APS-C body significantly above the 7D. However, I am not privy to Canon's manufacturing costs, so I don't know if it would be cost effective to offer a bombproof, one-piece gripped 7D X version. At a minimum, a 7DII that inherits enough key features of the 1DX to make it attractive to professionals, while still affordable for enthusiasts is plausible.

If there is anything we've learned from Canon over the past two months, it is that past behavior is not an accurate predictor of future behavior. Canon has demonstrated that they are unafraid to take new and unpredictable paths.

THANK YOU, at least someone understands my point with the 7D! yes, its not labeled a 1D camera, but one doesnt have to look too far in the past to see how it outperforms the 1D series of the past. The thing is a beast.

Maybe the roadmap for the 7Dii contains the 1Dx sensor and the 60D becomes the successor to the 7D and the rebel becomes the new 70D... why not push everything up a notch and leave the sub-$1000 market to the 4/3 and point and shoot market? besides, the iphone is the number 1 most used camera reported on flickr... how many people are going to buy a cheap dslr over a free, highly capable point and shoot that comes with their iphone?

besides, I think several days ago CR posted a slide of Canon's roadmap and I didnt see any DSLR on the "consumer" side

what is "up sampling" anyways?

They had better not switch the 7D sensor!!! I'll... I'll switch to Pentax!!! ;D

Hear me, Oh hear me, o ye Canon engineers: leave that ASP-C alone! Do not bloat it! I would be heartily enraged to have my glass shortened and my corners worsened...

 

[psycho5]

They had better not switch the 7D sensor!!! I'll... I'll switch to Pentax!!! ;D

Hear me, Oh hear me, o ye Canon engineers: leave that ASP-C alone! Do not bloat it! I would be heartily enraged to have my glass shortened and my corners worsened...

your 7D would not be going anywhere, it would just have a 70D name on it and the 7D mkii would be the perfect camera for everyone who doesnt give a s*** about a 36mp 5diii studio camera with inferior low light performance to the 1Dx sensor.

Hear me Canon... merge the 1Dx sensor with the 7D!

xD series - Full Frame pro
xxD series - 1.6 professional crop
xxxd series - 4/3, P&S, and consumer

 

[Cetalis]

Another issue I would like to bring up is the fact that there is no excuse for any DSLR manufacturer to make cheap products anymore... leave the china-made s*** to the 4/3s market and finally focus on quality engineering for ALL DSLRs and their corresponding lenses (EF, EFS)

But that'd be unprofitable. Every manufacturer, save Leica and some of the medium format people, does this. Every company except pentax sells unsealed kit plastic lenses, and the majority of people are fine with it. Also, Japan is somewhat prone to natural disasters, though the rest of Southeast Asia where they're outsourcing production isn't exactly safe either. I do agree there is a hole in the lineup though; the 7D's sealing begs for an equally sealed EF-S.

There is a complicating factor here that needs to be acknowledged: with Canon abandoning the APS-H sensor, no one knows what direction they will go in the future to meet the demands of photographers who relied on the extra reach of the 1.3 crop factor of the 1D.

For now, Canon seems to be playing some games with that customer base (promoting "up sampling" for example as a viable alternative to greater resolution). I think they will be watching that market very closely to see if some of these photographers migrate to the 7D, possibly as a second body.

The 7D might not be as indestructible as the 1D series, but it is does have a robust build and could certainly hold its own under most conditions. My own sense is that there may not be enough room in the marketplace for a APS-C body significantly above the 7D. However, I am not privy to Canon's manufacturing costs, so I don't know if it would be cost effective to offer a bombproof, one-piece gripped 7D X version. At a minimum, a 7DII that inherits enough key features of the 1DX to make it attractive to professionals, while still affordable for enthusiasts is plausible.

If there is anything we've learned from Canon over the past two months, it is that past behavior is not an accurate predictor of future behavior. Canon has demonstrated that they are unafraid to take new and unpredictable paths.

THANK YOU, at least someone understands my point with the 7D! yes, its not labeled a 1D camera, but one doesnt have to look too far in the past to see how it outperforms the 1D series. The thing is a beast. it can definately hold its own.

Maybe the roadmap for the 7Dii contains the 1Dx sensor and the 60D becomes the successor to the 7D and the rebel becomes the new 70D... why not push everything up a notch and leave the sub-$1000 market to the 4/3 and point and shoot market? besides, the iphone is the number 1 most used camera reported on flickr... how many people are going to buy a cheap dslr over a free, highly capable point and shoot that comes with their iphone?

besides, I think several days ago CR posted a slide of Canon's roadmap and I didnt see any DSLR on the "consumer" side

what is "up sampling" anyways?

The 7D is a 7D because it is has a crop sensor; otherwise itd be between the 1D/1Dx and the 5D.
The whole point of a DSLR is that it's not a point and shoot, or at least to most people. To them it's the giant brick like camera that must do better than everything else cause the mirror makes a cool sound. Okay maybe its not that bad but still. Canon was the first to push DSLRs into the sub$1000 market, and they make an enormous profit from it: enough to justify producing at least 4 rebels (not sure if the XS is still being made) and the 60D.
Upsampling is making the picture larger, like magnifying it past 100%.

 

[psycho5]

@Cetalis

it is almost worth the effort to perform a market study to see how much the iphone has impacted the rebel series and to find out if the 4/3 could replace the rebel altogether. same how Apple has quite arguably the best products in the notebook/tablet market while acer, dell, and the rest still make plastic fantastics.

its just an idea, of course canon will not go this route... shipping junk is surely profitable when people buy cameras because the shutter makes a loud "film advance" sound.... how funny btw.

 

[RC]

Play around with the 16-35mm for a while. It is a good lens. I went with the 85mm f1.8 prime, and you might want to think about something like that if you are going to be changing lenses anyway. I would like to try the 50mm in a head to head contest with it though (on my FF camera) to see if it would have worked better.

Since I've now exhausted my camera money, I've got a good while to play with and learn what I have. Still need/want (is there a difference?) a normal or close to normal prime. The 35 1.4 and 50 1.4 are two that's been on my list. Everything I read about the 85 1.8 is extremely positive. However, this is probably a lower priority lens at this time since I have the 100 2.8 Macro and I'm shooting on a crop camera.

Good grief, I think I've got G.A.S. http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,2114.0.html

I don't want to be that guy. Time to enjoy and work with I already have.

 

[RC]

You will love the 16-35 (my favorite lens on 7D) and the 24-70 is an amazing beast of a lens, I LOVE THEM! ;D the 70-200 is2 however sits at home more often than not

That gets me even more excited hearing that! Lens is expected to arrive early next week giving me a long holiday weekend to enjoy. ;D

 

[wickidwombat]

I would like to see the 7d2 get the sensor from the 1D mk4 as a step up and keep the aps-h line alive
this would address the high iso noise nicely it wont touch canon sales of 1dx it will still be massive benfit to birders and wildlife shooters maybe they could even take the now old 45 point AF and stick it in there since the new top shelf model has a better one (Nikon have had 51 point sensors in their mid level cameras for a while now) The key would be it maintaining the more compact form factor as that is the thing that appeals to me the most for the 7D and the weather sealling of course. Price point? maybe a bit under 2k for that and it would sell like hot cakes. keep the battery the same to maintain compatability with the 5D2 and existing 7D. (I think you will see alot of 1D-X buyers will get one of these too)

 

[unfocused]

They had better not switch the 7D sensor!!! I'll... I'll switch to Pentax!!! ;D

Hear me, Oh hear me, o ye Canon engineers: leave that ASP-C alone! Do not bloat it! I would be heartily enraged to have my glass shortened and my corners worsened...

Although I thought I was pretty clear, perhaps not.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Canon would ever switch sensor size on the 7D. I was simply pointing out that for those who need longer reach, the death of the 1.3 crop leaves them with only two choices: tele-extenders or the 7D. Given that choice, an APS-C sensor is preferable for most applications.

My point was simply that Canon may choose to fill that need with a future 7D or with some variation of the same. I suggested two plausible paths: 1) enhance the 7D II by including some of the features of the 1DX into the new body (processor, autofocus, etc.) or 2) offer a souped-up version of the 7D II (7D X?) that is geared to professionals (bombproof and built with a one-piece gripped body, instead of a separate grip.

Finally, the central point was simply that Canon, in the past two months, has proven to be much more innovative than many people assumed. So, while it's fund to speculate, it's become much more difficult to do so with any degree of confidence.