Opinion: AI Subscriptions are coming, and it shouldn’t surprise us

Canon Rumors Guy

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Craig received a rumor that Canon is considering adding an AI subscription to our future Canon cameras. The thought of this stirs mental images of people heading to Canon HQ with pitchforks. Maybe not so fast with the fire though. But do keep it handy if we disagree. Our cameras in the past even in

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kaihp

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Regarding power consumption: it is sn often overlooked fact that cooling is more than 50% of the total power consumption of a data center, simply because it's not 100% efficient.

I read yesterday that there are rumors that Microsoft is planning to build a data center that need power from no less than 3 nuclear power plants :oops:
Yes, for A.I.
 
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Richard CR

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Regarding power consumption: it is sn often overlooked fact that cooling is more than 50% of the total power consumption of a data center, simply because it's not 100% efficient.

I read yesterday that there are rumors that Microsoft is planning to build a data center that need power from no less than 3 nuclear power plants :oops:
Yes, for A.I.

it's a lot for sure. a company that i work for has patents on tackling the issue. However, it's one thing to invent it.. it's another to convince Microsoft and others that this is a viable technology.

the waste heat from AI is going to be absolutely bonkers.
 
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Richard CR

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Omg given the usual level of ill-informed emotion-driven fearmongering in this forum I can't even imagine what hell this thread is about to descend into.

that's always my hope on opinion pieces ;) it makes my cold dead heart warm again.
 
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I could see off-camera processing being a thing in 5-10 years, but I really don’t see this working with current 5G technology. The latency is too high. Think about how oftentimes events at large venues result in crowded networks and slow internet. The last thing any of us want is shutter lag due to network conditions. I’m sure they’d build a fallback to built-in autofocus, but if it's significantly worse than the subscription version I’d be livid.

Yes, it takes a lot of money to build and train models, but it doesn’t necessarily take as much power as folks would think to RUN models. Various image recognition models run quite well on economy hardware like Raspberry Pis. I’ve also got an LLM running locally on my MacBook Pro, and it performs quite well without consuming too much battery power.

If Canon turns “AI” autofocus into a subscription, it will be out of greed and not necessity. Unfortunately, it seems that major manufacturers are hellbent on eroding ownership of products you “buy.”

Edited: For grammar, because I can't proofread.
 
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Canon Rumors Guy

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Good conversation so far, I trust it'll stay that way.

My hot take....

I look at Atomos, and when I bought my Ninja V a few years ago. I was quite ignorant about recorders. You hit the Atomos Dashboard, check for the firmware updates and whatever.. and then I discovered there were a bunch of pay to play feature options. Initial reaction? You can imagine :cool:

However, a few of them I didn't need, want or honestly, even know what the hell they were.. Then the H.265 came and that was something I did want. I was quite happy to pay for it. They had spent time and resources adding a feature that probably came from customer feedback. I don't believe it's a super popular codec, but I actually I like it.

I checked for firmware updates a couple of weeks ago and the OS version 11 had hit, it's a paid upgrade. I looked at the features added and I didn't need any of them. They'll continue with any bug fixes on OS version 10. I could go buy the latest Ninja for OS11, There's just nothing at this time I need/want from the latest line. I think a Shogun is for me in the future anyway.... aging eyes!

The biggest challenge for companies will probably be releasing a fully featured product and no perceived "cripple hammer", people won't respond well to removing things and putting them behind a paywall.. New products still need to be innovative and push the envelope on features and capabilities out of the box.

Take the R3, fully featured AF system. If they came up with a way to say target sports photographer with "AI" updates, based on feedback and provide a feature set that is fully developed, I think that would be worth the price of admission if it's something you want. The wedding photographer won't care and won't buy it.

There can also be a lot of external influences that change the viability of a product.. trends, other new tech.. etc. Being able to adapt and provide a way for an existing product to meet these news demands.. that's great, but it will have to come at a cost, but that cost will be significantly less than buying a new camera.

However, if they tried to charge for say that pixel shift 400mp thing, that would not be cool. I don't think it was very well done, but there could have obviously been technical limitations with the hardware that prevented it from being better. If they go this route, they will have to develop hardware with the future in mind.

I also see a potential for it to help brand retention and to grab some revenue from people that use their cameras until they die. Product cycles are a lot longer now. Sure we're all camera dorks here, but I don't believe we're the majority.

This sort of thing could also help when a competitor launches something cool while your competing product is in the middle of its life cycle. If it's a software trick or whatever... well... here you go.. $50 and now your camera has it if you want it. I do think hardware evolution is going to move slower than software over the next 5 or whatever years.

Keep firmware updates going for minor features, bug fixes, compatibility. Put more resources into adding cool features. That comes at a cost for the company, and you should pay for it if you want it, but it has to be done well. How many times have you looked at a firmware update and installed a bunch of features you don't want, need, or care about? You install it for the bug fixes and those sorts of things. I don't think it's unreasonable to separate those things. It could also make those camera breaking firmware updates less of a thing?

It could also help Canon become better at software, there have been *cough* a few misses in the past.

Being verbose aside, if it adds value to a specific demographic of shooter and doesn't hinder the other demographics feature wise or cost wise. I think that could be a good thing. There is nothing wrong with finding new streams of revenue in a shrunken market if it's done right and makes your product better and your customers happier.

I don't believe this is coming any time soon, but I wouldn't be surprised if the new product lines are going to be capable of these sorts of future developments.

I will add.. no monthly BS... I think a lot of us are tired of that model.
 
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kaihp

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it's a lot for sure. a company that i work for has patents on tackling the issue. However, it's one thing to invent it.. it's another to convince Microsoft and others that this is a viable technology.

the waste heat from AI is going to be absolutely bonkers.
At least use some of the waste heat for district heating.
 
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Canon Rumors Guy

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At least use some of the waste heat for district heating.

Isn't that something they do in Denmark or somewhere in that part of the world?

First crypto/nft demands.. I hadn't even thought about AI data centres.

Down the rabbit hole I go.
 
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koenkooi

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I could see off-camera processing being a thing in 5-10 years, I really don’t see this working with current 5G technology. The latency is too high. Think about how oftentimes events at large venues result in crowded networks and slow internet. The last thing any of us want is shutter lag due to network conditions. I’m sure they’d build a fallback to built-in autofocus, but if its significantly worse than the subscription version I’d be livid. […]
There have been experiments where 5G was used in a huge warehouse where the loader equipment talked to a local, in-house gateway over 5G. So wifi like latency, while using 5G.

As someone who was hit by the ‘lightroom needs to refresh its token every 2 weeks or it stops working’ problem on vacation, I’m very sceptic about subscriptions for my camera.
I guess we’ll finally get internet time sync as a side effect
 
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I think cameras and AI face a huge headwind in the near future. First of all, phone cameras and phones in general are so much more ahead in that department, with the AI processing/software, it will take years for Canon or Sony even to catch up.

The workflows are also clunky with modern cameras, e.g. for HDR, and very computing intensive. I can't see how cameras can get out of the slump they are in right now. Getting a photo out of my cameras take so much more time and effort compared to just shooting with my phone, and with modern social media, any extra details the camera can produce is simply destroyed by low resolution uploads/compression. Sure - you can always have your own portfolio website, but the number of people you can reach will be greatly smaller just by default.

Even a basic connection to the camera from the phone app sometimes doesn't work for no reason, if they can't get that right, how can they get the other things which would naturally rely on these steps? In many ways the camera industry is way behind and the gap is only widening as far as I can see.
 
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Ongoing subscriptions for features that are performed on-camera would make a lot of people angry, including me. Screw that. Will financially support jailbreakers before I pay a subscription to use features built into something that I am supposed to own.

However, subscriptions for features that require remote processing in some far-away datacenter seem all but inevitable. DCs cost money. Electricity costs money. These are ongoing costs that require ongoing payments. I'm not sure how that would end up being implemented as in many cases (and many places) there won't be the connectivity available that such features would require.

My ultimate hope is that AI quickly evolves and we all end up in a post-scarcity world. If done properly, would be amazing.
 
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