Photos of Canon Smartphone with Integrated APS-C Sensor, Phone, Internet!

This is from an Internet source of mine in Europe who said he/she originally passed the following text and images onto Northlight Images UK (i've gotten rumor confirmations from that website before but this was sent directly to me!).

It purports to be a Canon Smartphone that is combined with a 4K video resolution APS-C sensor from the 7D mark2 and Android OS. The language is a bit flowery but again I am pretty sure the original source is from Germany and the UK as I see tells in the text that shows me the LIKELY TWO writers are English and German.

I have attached the two photos that came with the text and have perused the photos and in my opinion they look like testbed prototypes rather than finished products. They look a little too dinged up to be 3D rendered and there are some OTHER tells (I see two...can you find them too?) which make me believe they actually MIGHT BE REAL! The way they misspelled APS-C as AP-C on a consistent basis and some really flowery language shows me that at least one is not a native English-speaker. They ADMIT in the text that they have PURPOSEFULLY DISTORTED THE PHOTOS to ensure their anonymous nature.


Take a read and comment away:


Canon P5 AP-C Sensor Smartphone
Field Report from Camera Gruppe-CCHQ in Tokyo
2018-01-28

Written by Agents "Felicity" and "Uwe"

(Must unzip attached ZIP file containing two JPEG photos)
______________________________________

While in Tokyo, our review team met an industrious and very nervous technician "Innichi-san" whom we had invited to one of the many tiny and private sushi booths in this effervescent but chaotic metropolis.

He had an insane secret for us that proved beyond any rational doubt that Canon had the "Next Big Thing" in camera technology.

Skittish and watchful, our guest took out of what we saw to be a wooden teabox, a silver grey item wrapped in a simple cobalt blue hand-towel that initially looked rather similar to an oversized Powershot G9 series camera missing a number of vital parts.

Upon a closer look, with the four of us stuffed so uncomfortably close within this private booth, we suddenly realized we had something very special in our hands as no dials were present. No popup flash was present. No portruding lens element was present. But a very large plastic-film covered display indicating the primary function of a smartphone was most definitely present and accounted for!

Upon turning over the item over, the surprised looks within our group gave way to a most palpable "Shock And Awe" as we realized the implications of what lay present before us. The very obvious lens mount of either a Canon M5 or Canon 7D camera and a rather shallow inset box containing a large AP-C sensor but lacking any obvious mirror assembly made it immediately clear to us all that Canon has now (finally?) given us that insanely great "One More Thing..." moment.

A Silver Grey smooth finish with what we are told is a plastic prototype body containing all the elements of a 7D Mark II in a large form factor smartphone with a full-size touchscreen. By no mere coincidence, we did happen to have a Canon 7D Mark II with us as an immediate item of comparison which told us as much or more than what our nervous companion previously conveyed to us before our late lunch.

The sensor within the item was indeed the same physical size as our Canon 7D Mark II. The lens box was definitely shallower and most definitely had no mirror assembly!
And indeed, the mount itself was absolutely identical to our 7D except that the two screws that normally sit above the mount were not to be seen!

To the right of the lens mount, to the upper right corner were four inset LED lights which we assumed to be part of the on-board flash and light system for this smartphone. Our guest confirmed that it is both a camera flash and a continuously-lit flashlight similar to many current smartphone systems.

The lower right consisted of a rather large Canon "EOS" logo printed in black but otherwise identical to those present in other lower-end Canon point-and-shoot systems. Within the lower-middle edge of the smartphone was a tripod screwmount socket surrounded by four screws nearly identical in configuration to the Powershoot G9 series and with a grooved and vacant inset that also seemed identical in size and layout to the G9's electrical and power information stickers. We saw no battery insert and when pressed, our guest informed us the Lithium-Ion battery was sealed permanently inside the smartphone, but could be factory-replaced by sending in the phone to one of as-of-yet unnamed series of specialised Canon service centres.

There was a removeable clear sticker attached to the lower-left edge in landscape mode, that contained the words EOS P5 which we were told is to be the series name of this particular combined camera and smartphone device. Other versions in higher and lower price brackets are to be forthcoming. The device case and the display's plastic film covering seemed to be well used and were rather scratched and nicked which is due to the extensive in-field testing by Canon as told to us by our guest. This device shown to us is one of up to 30 such devices in current real-world testing. The final case is to be smooth metal and will not be the somewhat unfinished looking plastic case we were presented with.

Inquiring further about battery life, we were informed that 800 shots over five hours in addition to another full hour of phone calls for a total of six hours was the currently tested typical battery life. A quick charge mode of up to 80% of full charge within 2 hours was available. We were delighted to hear such impressive numbers
and even more impressed that these numbers were expected to actually improve by the time of product release.

Make no mistake, this is a very large mobile being what we measured to be about 27mm in thickness. The screen size which we did not measure, we are told in Imperial Measurement terms as being a "5.7 Inch" phone. The phone was in fact turned on in our presence and Android Nougat became the operating system version that was presented after a reasonable boot-up period. We were most impressed by the sheer clarity and brightness of the display itself. Told to us by our guest that
it is a 1920 by 1200 pixel OLED for battery life reasons, we were a tiny bit disappointed at its rather low and unusual resolution.

Abutted on the right side, when held in landscape mode, was nearly the same "joystick" button-set as on the M5 camera. In addition to the usual record button above and the menu button below, we were pleased to see and feel the ergonomic presence of the very familiar Canon M5 camera control system.

Entertaining us mightily, our guest further impressed us with a demonstration of the newer "Dark Mode" menu system that is much larger than the M5's and is fully-touchscreen. After the popup menu system hiccupped and displayed its displeasure at not having a lens attached, our guest astonished us by taking out of the tea box yet another device which we were gobsmacked to find out was the smartphone-specific detachable lens system which allowed the phone to take wideview images without any other lens. He simply twisted it onto the EF-S mount in a single motion
and by George, the viewscreen presented itself in its full clarity, it's sheer brilliance and absolutely no lag time!

While the menu system was familar, new items such as a luminance waveform monitor and RGB vectorscope overlay and a menu for zebra stripes was most evident and well-received by us.

When our guest switched over the lens while in live-view display mode to a 50 mm kit lens, we were astonished at the sheer technical brilliance of being able to instantly switch to an EF-S mount lens that is qualitatively far beyond what is on any other mobile on Earth!

A touch-moveable auto-focus box then showed us just how well DPAF works in its as-yet-unmatched wonder. Move the box overlay anywhere onscreen and the camera focuses very fast and very well indeed! Press the large silver-black button on the upper-right edge of the mobile and the usual half-press down and full press down functionality satisfied even more our already heightened senses. It was placed
perfectly and is of the optimum size to offer the excellent feedback for typical point-and-shoot operation.

We inquired as to whether video output was possible and after turning the phone to it's rightside short edge, a USB3.1 Universal plug was evident in addition to recessed and flip-tabbed dual-SIM card slots and a what were were told is a 128 Gigabyte capacity UHS-II Card Slot that is able to record up to 4K 4096 by 2160 pixels at a 1.3x crop at 60 fps into MOV container files. The recording segment time
is now fully unlimited going beyond 30 minutes. We were informed that a HDMI 2.1 port may be added by the final production date which also would offer truly clean video output at up to 60 fps 4k and 120 fps 1080p resolutions!

The truly impressive part I must say, is that the video file itself is now fully 10-bit using 4:2:2 colour samples H.264 (Not H.265?) which finally puts Canon on par with the Panasonic G5 camera series and we were able to confirm this via on-screen record settings which are brought up to the state-of-the-art at 4096x2160 at 60 fps
and 3840x2160 at 60 fps using 1.3x crop and full-sensor sampled 2048x1080 and 1920x1080 at 120 fps, and 1280x720 at 120 fps or 180 fps and the very new high frame rate (highly-cropped) 960x540 at 480 fps and 640x480 at 600 fps recording modes which should make you action-sports fanatics utterly ecstatic. These specifications bode very very well for Canon video shooters!

Most definitely not left out are the still shooters which we are pleased to inform that this mobile has specifications nearly identical to the Canon 7D Mark II with its 20.2 megapixels (5472x3648) and 22.50mm x 15.00 mm sensor size using the more-than-adequate 4.11 micron pixel pitch. ISO is Native 100 up to 16000 and is otherwise identical to the 7D MkII with its 25600 and 51200 extensions.

Yes! It most definitely has DPAF and outputs user-selectable 14-bit RAW, MRAW, SRAW, JPEG and the new-to-Canon JPEG-2000 wavelet-based files.

Continuous shooting mode is much improved over the 7D Mark II at an impressively snappy 11 fps allowing four full seconds of stills that are buffered to the storage media. Our guest indicated it is otherwise the same sensor as the 7D Mark II but uses a process that makes it considerably cheaper to manufacture. We received the impression from our guest that a Canon DIGIC series processor is not onboard and that all video and stills are processed by the Qualcomm 835 processor that is currently on the mobile device.

While we were allowed to take no photos with the mobile device itself, but we were allowed to take two photos of the camera using our own mobile. Just the lens-mount and the display sides were photographed so as to not overly cause unintended identification of our guest. We were also asked to distort the view of the phones so as to not overly cause major identifying marks or personal information to be accidentally presented. We are most happy to accommodate his requests for both anonymity and obfuscation!

After a further session of sake and sashimi, we were able to obtain and then discern the follow answers to our questions:

1. Who is this camera for?

- Enthusiast Videographers and Film Students who need a
budget 4K video camera at a less than full frame price point

- Enthusiast Stills photographers who cannot carry both a separate DSLR and Smartphone system

- Vacationers and Caravaners who want mobile phone features but with enthusiast camera capability

2. Who makes this camera?

- The mobile phone components are purported to be Original Designed and Manufactured under contract by HTC

- The display is Canon designed but manufactured elsewhere

- The imaging and onboard processing software is fully Canon's

- The AP-C sensor is essentially a 7D Mark II's but cheaper to manufacture

3. When is this camera to be announced or retailed?

- The stated announcement scenario is February 2019

4. What is its Retail Cost?

- The only price we received was in U.S. Dollars starting at $1400 U.S. or about 1100 Euros but may be higher

5. Does this Replace the Canon 7D Mark II or the Canon M5 cameras?

- No! These cameras are to be soon updated in-themselves for their
respective market segments but at higher than current specifications.

- This is an entirely new market segment directly competing with
flagship Samsung and Apple mobile telephony products.

6. What other Mirrorless Cameras or Smartphones are coming and When?

- A cheaper version of the above mobile but with a Canon "One Inch" sensor
and optical zoom but no external lens mount at a price point of 600 to 800 U.S. Dollars
announced in early to mid 2019

- A new high-end medium format sensor Cinema EOS video camera with
switchable 4k/8k video capability and larger photosites announced before NAB 2019

- Two stills-oriented Mirrorless EOS 1M series products with
medium format sensors and a newer, more robust EF-style lens mount.
One Camera is to have a greater-than 44 megapixel sensor and the second is to have
a 120 megapixels resolution announced in mid to late 2019. New larger lenses will
all have onboard night-readable LED screen for advanced metadata functionality

- The 44 megapixel camera is to have a global shutter and continuous mode shooting
of 24 or more fps and the 120 megapixel version is to have up to 8 fps in continuous mode
but no global shutter. Both will have improved DPAF and 4K video recording modes.
Low-light image gathering and low-light auto-focus capability is to be much improved
over the 1D/5D series cameras.


The new combined mobile telephony and camera device at a glance:

- Canon P5-series Smartphone with AP-C sensor

- Mirrorless with a mount for EF-S lenses.

- Resolution 20.2 Megapixels with a maximum resolution of 5472 x 3648 pixels

- 4.1 microns pixel pitch

- 27 mm body thickness

- 5.7 Inch OLED touchscreen display at 1920 by 1200 pixels resolution
No Lag during Live View.
Nearly identical imaging specifications shared with
Canon EOS 7D Mark II but has DCI 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 video!

- Currently Android Nougat Operating System and is upgradable in-field

- Selfie front camera is 1920x1080p 15/25/30 fps sensor looking much higher image quality than many we have seen

- Removable metal ring with Optical Quality Glass Cover for rear camera allowing
widescreen video and stills photo taking with no other external lens required.
Field of view is currently unknown when glass cover is attached.
5 mm lens bump when glass cover adapter is attached.

- All Canon EF-S lenses attachable when Glass cover is removed.

- 12 gigabytes of operating system memory

- one storage card UHS-II MicroSD slot 128 gigabytes maximum

- Dual SIM card slots allowing two separate mobile service providers

- Unlocked World Phone with Asia, Europe and North America GSM and 3G/4G frequencies in one device

- MOV video container format 4:2:2 10 bit H.264 video to file with embedded GOP-periodic GPS and other metadata.

- Stills have GPS and other metadata embedded into EXIF area

- Stills can be set to 14-bit RAW, SRAW, MRAW, JPEG and JPEG2000

- Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processor (unknown processor speed but phone seemed snappy to use)

- Three colours available: Silver Grey, Solid White and Solid Black with smooth non-textured finish

- Has one USB-3.1 port with universal double rounded plug!
NO HDMI 2.1 PORT YET but may be added by final production!

- Has DPAF! Focus Box is Fully Moveable Onscreen

- Live View has no lag and has focus peaking, zebra stripes, and waveform/vectorscope overlay

- Clean 4K 4096x2160 60 fps 10-bit 4:2:2 Video Output via USB-3.1 port

- Portable multi-terabyte hard drive accessory coming after introduction
that plugs directly into USB 3.1 port for use as an external recorder
Camera/Mobile device will take care of all file and folder handling
and recording onboard the external drive using Plug and Play operation.





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AND.....I think the case is actually 3D printed because if you do some pixel peeps, the distortion in the upper left corner of the 1st photo is not consistent with the full curved corners of the 2nd photo with it's dings on both photos in the same area, which looks to me like an --engineering workaround-- rather than indicating a 3D CGI rendering...The JPEG compression artifacts are consistent throughout the photo, the luminance noise artifacts are too and the edges indicate real shadows and real lighting. That APS-C mount looks especially real and would be in the right place engineering-wise for a smartphone of this type. And the measurement of the shadows and lighting angle DOES SEEM to indicate a one inch thick (2.54cm) item which makes physical sense if you need to accommodate a lens mount like the 7Dmk2's!

And the mention that 30 such devices are already out there also makes sense from a technology testing point of view...so while I'm kind on the fence about this one, I'm still a bit excited in that we might be seeing a --test box-- of some kind.
 
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-1

Dec 18, 2014
187
2
A few days early, dude... Some folks have way to much time on their hands. That's an EF-S mount! :ppp

Canon_EF-S_camera_mount.jpg
 
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What would be the point of an interchangeable lens smartphone? A smartphone with an APS-C sensor and a 20-200mm f/4-5.6 lens would be interesting but I don't think it's can be done yet since the phone should be very large and heavy. A smartphone with shorter focal range and/or smaller apertures would not worth it as it could not be used for indoor photography and you can have the PowerShot G1 X Mark III (24-72mm f/2.8-5.6) for the task.
But take it seriously for a moment. What do you think the largest aperture and longest focal range could be for an APS-C sensor smartphone if we don't want it to be too large and heavy (250-300g max).
 
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djkraq said:
All those specs seem like BS. The news seems BS as well, but no way an APS-C camera phone is going to do 4k anything, let alone at 60p hahahahahahaha. Unless it was a phone that looks like its from 1980 then I'd be like, ok LOL

---

A^2 x B^2 = C^2 which tells us the phone size if it's 1920 by 1200 pixels at a 5.7 inch screen which when you add the Canon's M5 right side button setup should work out to be about 3.5 inches wide at about 6.75 inches long which is a REALLY BIG PHONE especially if it's one inch thick!

AND the fact that HTC was mentioned as the ODM (Original Design Manufacturer) that YES I believe it's gonna be a really BOXY-LOOKING PHONE! -- I HIGHLY DOUBT the case shown in these videos is what would come out at the retail level but I wouldn't be surprised to see some box-like combined camera/smartphone coming out from Canon. Regarding the EF-S mount, isn't that a GOOD THING? It obviously cannot be a 1D/5D mount but it will ABSOLUTELY BE LARGER than any other smartphone sensor on the market! At at a normal flange focal distance of 44mm the EF-S mount focal distance could PROBABLY be brought down to AROUND 20 to 25 mm if it was mirrorless which SEEMS about right for the stated text-specified 27mm thickness of the smartphone!

In this case I am still on the fence a bit, but I do think SOMEONE has leaked something BIG coming from Canon in the prosumer Smartphone + Video + Stills Camera space. Even the $1400 starting price point seems about right for this type of product and the 7D's sensor is so old BUT STILL VERY GOOD that manufacturing costs could EASILY be brought down to less than $50 US per wafer. If I was Canon the 7D Mk2's sensor IS THE ONE to be using on a smartphone! All Canon needs to do is get one of HTC's 835 Snapdragon flagship phones, add a bigger sealed-in battery and an OLED screen and BOOM it would only cost $700 U.S. to manufacture and when you sell at a $1400 price range you STILL have a Gross Margin of $700 to work with for shipping, sales support, retail marketing and final net profit! My guess the net profit would be like $375 to $450 U.S. at least, in addition to any EXTERNAL LENSES and ACCESSORIES they would sell which have very high margin!
 
Upvote 0
Jul 21, 2010
31,099
12,863
HarryFilm said:
Regarding the EF-S mount, isn't that a GOOD THING?

...I do think SOMEONE has leaked something BIG coming from Canon in the prosumer Smartphone + Video + Stills Camera space

There is probably not much point in responding to this idiotic pile of drivel, but clearly whoever is responsible for the pathetic Photoshop mock up is a moron.

The EF-S mount has a flange focal distance of 44mm, meaning the device would need to be at least 2" thick, which is clearly not the case for the ridiculously lame mock up. Next time, the Photoshopping goofball, whoever that is, should try something that would make the device merely extraordinarily improbable (like the EF-M mount), instead of stupidly impossible.
 
Upvote 0

brad-man

Semi-Reactive Member
Jun 6, 2012
1,673
580
S Florida
neuroanatomist said:
HarryFilm said:
Regarding the EF-S mount, isn't that a GOOD THING?

...I do think SOMEONE has leaked something BIG coming from Canon in the prosumer Smartphone + Video + Stills Camera space

There is probably not much point in responding to this idiotic pile of drivel, but clearly whoever is responsible for the pathetic Photoshop mock up is a moron.

The EF-S mount has a flange focal distance of 44mm, meaning the device would need to be at least 2" thick, which is clearly not the case for the ridiculously lame mock up. Next time, the Photoshopping goofball, whoever that is, should try something that would make the device merely extraordinarily improbable (like the EF-M mount), instead of stupidly impossible.

It'll work. You just need to pick up the adapter!
 
Upvote 0
neuroanatomist said:
HarryFilm said:
Regarding the EF-S mount, isn't that a GOOD THING?

...I do think SOMEONE has leaked something BIG coming from Canon in the prosumer Smartphone + Video + Stills Camera space

There is probably not much point in responding to this idiotic pile of drivel, but clearly whoever is responsible for the pathetic Photoshop mock up is a moron.

The EF-S mount has a flange focal distance of 44mm, meaning the device would need to be at least 2" thick, which is clearly not the case for the ridiculously lame mock up. Next time, the Photoshopping goofball, whoever that is, should try something that would make the device merely extraordinarily improbable (like the EF-M mount), instead of stupidly impossible.

---

Hmmm....maybe my physics is more than a bit off, but is it not true that the internal focal distance could be brought down to around 20mm within the stated 27mm thickness and then the extra made up with an adapter...AND... is it also not true that the sensor type is actually able to allow for a 25 to 35mm focal distance? Maybe I'm reading Canon's documentation wrong but it SEEMS that all that is required is an extra 5 to 10mm --Lens Adapter Bump-- to make this all work!

And YES I do actually agree with you that I see some design inconsistencies especially in the upper left corner of the 1st photo...BUT....I do wonder if that was intentionally done by Canon. Who knows? I kinda believe more the substance of the text while discounting the photos a bit.

So in my opinion I am going to say that I believe that MUCH of the text description is probably correct in that Canon actually IS going to make a high-end combined large-sensor smartphone (it would be a wildly profitable market with 30% to 50% margins!).

One thing is MUST ABSOLUTELY HAVE THOUGH is I need to be able to take and send VOICE CALLS/TEXTS WHILE I'm shooting stills and/or 60 fps DCI 4K video (i.e. calls can be made via a Bluetooth headset) AND allow my photos/vidoes to be INSTANTLY UPLOADED to Facebook/Instragram/etc as soon as the photo/video is taken using the max speed of my 3G/4G wireless plan! AND the 6 hour battery life needs to be improved to more than 8 hours of combined shooting stills/video and voice call/texting!


NOW THAT WOULD BE A Canon Smartphone to BUY!
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,246
1,939
Canada
I would say that such a device would have the worst ergonomics EVER! for a camera, so bad that such a product must be an April fools joke...... but...... there is a real product, the Olympus AIR-01, that we should look at first....
The Air-01 is a four thirds camera that is operated through a phone. It clips on to the back of a lens and is about the size of a 2X teleconverter. As you can see from the attached picture, the ergonomics are pathetic.

Canon is a smart company who can learn from other's mistakes. The Air-01 probably holds the distinction of being the worst selling digital camera ever, and with that knowledge firmly in mind, there is no way that Canon, Nikon, or Sony (well... maybee Sony....) are going to come out with camera that is even worse!
 

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brad-man

Semi-Reactive Member
Jun 6, 2012
1,673
580
S Florida
HarryFilm said:
neuroanatomist said:
HarryFilm said:
Regarding the EF-S mount, isn't that a GOOD THING?

...I do think SOMEONE has leaked something BIG coming from Canon in the prosumer Smartphone + Video + Stills Camera space

There is probably not much point in responding to this idiotic pile of drivel, but clearly whoever is responsible for the pathetic Photoshop mock up is a moron.

The EF-S mount has a flange focal distance of 44mm, meaning the device would need to be at least 2" thick, which is clearly not the case for the ridiculously lame mock up. Next time, the Photoshopping goofball, whoever that is, should try something that would make the device merely extraordinarily improbable (like the EF-M mount), instead of stupidly impossible.

---

Hmmm....maybe my physics is more than a bit off, but is it not true that the internal focal distance could be brought down to around 20mm within the stated 27mm thickness and then the extra made up with an adapter...AND... is it also not true that the sensor type is actually able to allow for a 25 to 35mm focal distance? Maybe I'm reading Canon's documentation wrong but it SEEMS that all that is required is an extra 5 to 10mm --Lens Adapter Bump-- to make this all work!

And YES I do actually agree with you that I see some design inconsistencies especially in the upper left corner of the 1st photo...BUT....I do wonder if that was intentionally done by Canon. Who knows? I kinda believe more the substance of the text while discounting the photos a bit.

So in my opinion I am going to say that I believe that MUCH of the text description is probably correct in that Canon actually IS going to make a high-end combined large-sensor smartphone (it would be a wildly profitable market with 30% to 50% margins!).

One thing is MUST ABSOLUTELY HAVE THOUGH is I need to be able to take and send VOICE CALLS/TEXTS WHILE I'm shooting stills and/or 60 fps DCI 4K video (i.e. calls can be made via a Bluetooth headset) AND allow my photos/vidoes to be INSTANTLY UPLOADED to Facebook/Instragram/etc as soon as the photo/video is taken using the max speed of my 3G/4G wireless plan! AND the 6 hour battery life needs to be improved to more than 8 hours of combined shooting stills/video and voice call/texting!


NOW THAT WOULD BE A Canon Smartphone to BUY!

Hey Harry. Are you going to write the operating system?
 
Upvote 0

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,127
451
Vancouver, BC
neuroanatomist said:
HarryFilm said:
Regarding the EF-S mount, isn't that a GOOD THING?

...I do think SOMEONE has leaked something BIG coming from Canon in the prosumer Smartphone + Video + Stills Camera space

There is probably not much point in responding to this idiotic pile of drivel, but clearly whoever is responsible for the pathetic Photoshop mock up is a moron.

The EF-S mount has a flange focal distance of 44mm, meaning the device would need to be at least 2" thick, which is clearly not the case for the ridiculously lame mock up. Next time, the Photoshopping goofball, whoever that is, should try something that would make the device merely extraordinarily improbable (like the EF-M mount), instead of stupidly impossible.

Thank you.

I saw this post when it went up at midnight and decided that sleep was preferable than responding.
 
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