POLL? How many are preordering the EOS R?

[3kramd5]

What a weird comment. Do Nikon and Sony make cameras for left-eye shooters?

Yet I still take better pictures than most, because instead of whining about what this manufacturer or that manufacturer didn't do for me, I just get on with it and learn to use the kit I buy, well.

There's a moral there for many on here...

Right?

I am left-eye dominant. I often shoot with my head tilted so my right eye sees the whole scene while my left is glued to the VF. Occasionally if my left gets fatigued I’ll switch. It feels weird but it’s no problem. Eye dominance has never gotten in my way.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

Yes I'm pretty sure the DIGIC 8 doesn't do anything to the RAW file, why is that a safe assumption? Because Canon only ever claim improvements on the OOC jpegs. I don't have a clue what criteria Canon have for setting the highest rating for the ISO, but 32000 - 40000 is 1/3 of a stop, hardly anything worth writing about.

Nevertheless I'd like to know where, exactly, people think they are seeing an improvement, because I have not seen anything that makes me think "a 5D MkIV couldn't do that". Not that I don't find may of the features of the R system interesting and improvements, just that IQ isn't one of them.

I very interesting comparison is going to be a 5D MkIV with EF 50 f1.2L and the R with the RF 50 f1.2L, as far as I can see Canon are saying the big IQ improvements are because of the optical freedom that extra 20mm gives them. Lenses are the difference, not the sensor or processor, for RAW files.

I don't think you're right in regard to this.

Firstly, the ISO setting in a camera obviously affects even the RAW file. So something within the camera is doing the boosting of the signal coming from the sensor, even when you shoot in RAW. If this weren't the case, the ISO setting you use wouldn't matter when you're shooting in RAW. But it still very much does.

Second, Canon does seem to call out that the processor in the camera plays into the image quality, even in relation to RAW. This is an old article, but still certainly relevant...

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/digic_processors.shtml

"What are the benefits? The combination of a 2-line 16-channel simultaneous signal readout from the CMOS sensor and the super-fast
14-bit analog-to-digital conversion (handled by four separate processing circuits, before the info reaches the Dual DIGIC 5+ processors) makes possible the following:

• Increase the sensor’s sensitivity by approximately two stops over previous models, meaning higher ISOs with the lowest noise of any EOS digital camera. The standard maximum ISO changes from ISO 12,800 on the previous EOS-1D Mark IV and ISO 1600 on the 1Ds Mark III up to ISO 51,200 on the EOS-1D X — without any ISO expansion applied."

So it seems that there's more going on upstream of the DIGIC processor that plays into RAW image quality. It doesn't seem like Canon fully specifies if it's upgraded from camera to camera. But if they're quoting a higher ISO range, I think something has changed.

 

[fentiger]

I think that I will preorder, but probably not for one of the more common reasons. I have a good friend who lent me his A7R3 with all of his lenses and accessories for close to two months, and really wants to have a good try at the R. After I take it for a spin, I'll return the favor.

For me, being already heavily invested in Canon lenses and accessories, the R is not a very risky investment even on preorder. The only real question for me is whether a more pro model will come out just a short while later, that I want more.

Rudy winston at Canon USA has stated that the EOSR is midrange camera, So i expect a lower and higher spec version to be announced in due course.

 

[Talys]

Rudy winston at Canon USA has stated that the EOSR is midrange camera, So i expect a lower and higher spec version to be announced in due course.

Yeah, the 5/8fps essentially sets it up there to leave space for a 7/10 or 8/11fps camera. And, the single card slot. While I would love UHS-II and more fps, I'm not entirely sure I'd care enough to spend an extra $1,000 for it. But with Canon, I would not be surprised that the R Pro will have something else on it that I think, "wow, I wish I had that".

 

[Mikehit]

Rudy winston at Canon USA has stated that the EOSR is midrange camera, So i expect a lower and higher spec version to be announced in due course.

I think he was using the term 'midrange' in context of existing cameras and where in that line-up the EOS-R is aimed.

 

[Timedog]

Will wait for Dynamic Range testing. I need ~14 stops. If they tweaked the 5DIV sensor a bit to squeeze a bit more dynamic range out of it, I'll buy it. I also kinda want to see what the "pro" mirrorless they're likely releasing next year has, and how much it costs over this. The R is good enough that I don't feel terrible about having a bunch of Canon lenses though, which is a change from 1 week ago.

 

[martti]

Except the Canon works better with more and superior lenses, has better support, and fastest AF currently available...And focuses in very low light, about a stop lower than the "competition."

And how exactly do you know all this?

 

[scipion]

And how exactly do you know all this?

indeed. from all we know, Sony is by far the first if the choice is between a ML Canon or Sony....

 

[martti]

If you ignore all the well-documented issues around Sony's colours; support; planned obsolescence on obscenely short timescales; ergonomic incompetence; dismally limited lens choices; and unproven reliability compared to Canon, you're right of course.

Meanwhile, back in the Real World, everyone still buys Canon.

I appreciate your opinion even though it is in conflict with the sales figures presented on this site.

If you are lazy to click, here is a screenshot. Oops. Your pants are on fire!

Source: The NPD Group, Inc., U.S. Retail Tracking Service, Detachable Lens Camera, Sensor Size: Full Frame, Based on Dollars Share, Jan.- Jun. 2018.

 

[Mikehit]

I appreciate your opinion even though it is in conflict with the sales figures presented on this site.

If you are lazy to click, here is a screenshot. Oops. Your pants are on fire!
View attachment 180303
Source: The NPD Group, Inc., U.S. Retail Tracking Service, Detachable Lens Camera, Sensor Size: Full Frame, Based on Dollars Share, Jan.- Jun. 2018.

1st half of a year where Sony had new releases - and finally getting the camera anywhere near right after 5 years of trying, Canon had no releases and Nikon had the D850 that on-one can get hold of in the US. Do you remember the headline 2 years ago when Sony were #1....after a series of cashback offers and price reductions and look how long that lasted.
Now Canon and Nikon have announced their FF mirrorless let us wait to see end of year figures and 1st half of 2019.

I am not saying Sony will not stay #1, just that Sony are very selective of their research.

 

[privatebydesign]

I appreciate your opinion even though it is in conflict with the sales figures presented on this site.

If you are lazy to click, here is a screenshot. Oops. Your pants are on fire!
View attachment 180303
Source: The NPD Group, Inc., U.S. Retail Tracking Service, Detachable Lens Camera, Sensor Size: Full Frame, Based on Dollars Share, Jan.- Jun. 2018.

I thought we were talking numbers of units not value of units? Might be a technicality, it might be that you can manipulate figures to illustrate any point of view.

Meanwhile I'm taking pictures with my antiquated Canon DSLR and archaic lenses and enjoying life.

 

[martti]

76% of FF mirrorless camera buyers are buying something else than Canon.
Explain that away if you can.
I did not create these figures. I have no horse in this race. I have a Canon 5D3 and a 5D4.
I am innocent.

 

[3kramd5]

Will wait for Dynamic Range testing. I need ~14 stops. If they tweaked the 5DIV sensor a bit to squeeze a bit more dynamic range out of it, I'll buy it. I also kinda want to see what the "pro" mirrorless they're likely releasing next year has, and how much it costs over this. The R is good enough that I don't feel terrible about having a bunch of Canon lenses though, which is a change from 1 week ago.

I don’t know if any consumer camera with 14 stops. How are you getting by now if you need it?

 

[3kramd5]

76% of FF mirrorless camera buyers are buying something else than Canon.
Explain that away if you can.

Color me confused, but notwithstanding unfilled orders, aren’t 100% of FF mirrorless camera buyers buying something else than Canon?

 

[Mikehit]

76% of FF mirrorless camera buyers are buying something else than Canon.
Explain that away if you can.
I did not create these figures. I have no horse in this race. I have a Canon 5D3 and a 5D4.
I am innocent.

76%? I presume you mean 66%

In a market where there are three solid contenders then I would expect a fairly wide split, where each has its advantages, especially when one of them has a unique product.
One thing that has been Sony's weak point is a new pool of Sony devotees and that comes from having an entry level camera. For the last 5 years Sony has relied on poaching people from CaNikon and now that chain has been disrupted - how far only time will tell. And if Sony makes a new push to the APS-C/budget end of the range.

 

[martti]

Color me confused, but notwithstanding unfilled orders, aren’t 100% of FF mirrorless camera buyers buying something else than Canon?

You have a point there. The word 'mirrorless' was my bad. This is all the FF camera bodies.
I cannot even count. I need some coffee.

 

[privatebydesign]

76% of FF mirrorless camera buyers are buying something else than Canon.
Explain that away if you can.
I did not create these figures. I have no horse in this race. I have a Canon 5D3 and a 5D4.
I am innocent.

That is NOT what the figures you are posting say. They are talking about value of sales not sales numbers. Don't get me wrong, I'd like 1% of that amount, but you are misrepresenting what you are posting.

So if Canon sell 2 6D MkII's, $1,599, and Sony sell one A9, $4,098, Canon have sold twice as many FF cameras, Sony have come first for US dollar sales amount. Which is 'better'? You are saying Sony are, I am offering a counterpoint and pointing out what this figures actually tell us.

I think you mean 66% and they are for all FF cameras not just MILC.

 

[Mikehit]

That is NOT what the figures you are posting say. They are talking about value of sales not sales numbers. Don't get me wrong, I'd like 1% of that amount, but you are misrepresenting what you are posting.

So if Canon sell 2 6D MkII's, $1,599, and Sony sell one A9, $4,098, Canon have sold twice as many FF cameras, Sony have come first for US dollar sales amount. Which is 'better'? You are saying Sony are, I am offering a counterpoint and pointing out what this figures actually tell us.

I think you mean 66% and they are for all FF cameras not just MILC.

I think that also underlines why companies are moving to real development the higher-bracket cameras - you need sell fewer bodies for the same profit.

 

[JohanCruyff]

How many are preordering the EOS R?

I am not.
This new body and the new Mount just made me re-think my future "Investments" in lenses and bodies.

Now I use my M6 alone, but also as an optional backup in case my 6D fails during an expensive holiday (the kind of holiday you don't want to end without pictures due to a body failure).
What will happen in the future? RF is already compatible with APS-C Canon lenses: will the recent EF-M 32mm F/1.4 be the last "M" release? Will Canon introduce a crop "R" / RF to replace both the APS-C bodies and the "M System"?
I don't know but, in that case, I should sell my M body and lenses and adopt the crop "R" if I still want my APS-C mirrorless to be a backup for my (future) "R" (R1, R2, whatever) body.
Let's see.

And of course I don't know whether to replace my 6D with a 5D Mark IV or with a R... or to wait for the R2, R3 etc.

But, first of all, I don't buy a new model before trustworthy websites (like Dustin Abbott) or magazines write a comprehensive review.

 

[tron]

And what if the review is positive? (It will be). Will this mean that your 6D (or 5D4 or 6DII should you decide to upgrade) is not very good camera ?