R.I.P Metz Speedlites.

[awinphoto]

I wonder if this means I will be able to pick up a 70 series flash for cheap soon... I had one back in the film days and it still out-powers todays top canon and nikon flashes... Had to sell it because it wasn't digital compatible... Would pick one up now if they didn't jack up the prices to what they are...

 

[awinphoto]

I do hope that their flash business will survive. I have a Metz macroflash and an AF 58-2 which is quite good (besides its old fashioned interface)...

Maybe it's time to buy a new Metz flash to strenghen their business

Only if one wants to live with the uncertainty re. warranty and future availability of service/repairs, spare parts etc.

I never bought third party strobes for Canon. Price difference for Metz strobes vs. Canon speedlites was not good enough for me to take any compatibility risks with reverse engineered third party gear. ETTL II in itself is complicated and finicky enough to avoid any additional source of problems.

Had Metz come out with Canon RT-compatible strobes and transmitters (!) at half price compared to Canon, then I would have considered. But either their engineers did not see fit to build them and/or German and EU laws did not provide any possiblity to work around Canon patents and protected designs. This is not China. The playing field is not level, but heavily tilted due to these types "imperfections of globalization".

As it is, I do not see a viable future for Metz. Mahogany furnished TV sets and simple hammerhead flashes are somewhat out of style. And lower-end "commodity" products cannot be produced at competitive costs in Germany.

I've had many metz flashes... extremely solid products... never once had to even think about the warranty... like apple, they just work.

 

[Marsu42]

I've had many metz flashes... extremely solid products... never once had to even think about the warranty... like apple, they just work.

Which would be the very reason why Metz is broke - how can you expect a company to make some profit if their products simply keep on working!? Decent business practice dictates to implement planned obsolescence by some kind of suicide device or forced upgrades to retain compatibility with other products :-o

 

[awinphoto]

I've had many metz flashes... extremely solid products... never once had to even think about the warranty... like apple, they just work.

Which would be the very reason why Metz is broke - how can you expect a company to make some profit if their products simply keep on working!? Decent business practice dictates to implement planned obsolescence by some kind of suicide device or forced upgrades to retain compatibility with other products :-o

Well Canon and Nikon has sure learned not to make that mistake lol. The only reason i stopped using Metz was when the 7d came out and i wanted to be able to use the commander... I made a profit from what i originally spent on the metz flash to what i was able to resell them (thanks to inflation and price increases during that time)...

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I've had many metz flashes... extremely solid products... never once had to even think about the warranty... like apple, they just work.

Which would be the very reason why Metz is broke - how can you expect a company to make some profit if their products simply keep on working!? Decent business practice dictates to implement planned obsolescence by some kind of suicide device or forced upgrades to retain compatibility with other products :-o

That is a very good point! ;D

It is more difficult to get your customer to buy more of your product than it is to get your customer to re-buy your product.

 

[Quackator]

I have almost two dozen shoe mount flashes.
Used to have tons of Metz.

In 2006 I suggested they build a flash with manual
power settings exceeding their dated full/W/M range.

They answered that they don't see a market there.

Enter strobist.

Bang.

Today about EVERY flash has manual settings at
least in full stops from 1/1 down to 1/64, some
down to 1/128 or even 1/256.

Every flash except most Metz devices.


Then I told them the world was ready for a ringflash
meant to fill in at very close range for wedding/event
shooters. made very clear that this ringflash must
work on the most frequently used lenses in these
genres, all with 77mm filter thread.

Took them two years, and then they produced the
MS-15 light. With 72mm filter thread.

You lose when you go to a gunfight with a toothpick.

German wages were not the problem, their product
portfolio failed big time.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I've had many metz flashes... never once had to even think about the warranty...

That to me is a sign of a really good product.. when you don't really think about the warranty.

 

[awinphoto]

I have almost two dozen shoe mount flashes.
Used to have tons of Metz.

In 2006 I suggested they build a flash with manual
power settings exceeding their dated full/W/M range.

They answered that they don't see a market there.

Enter strobist.

Bang.

Today about EVERY flash has manual settings at
least in full stops from 1/1 down to 1/64, some
down to 1/128 or even 1/256.

Every flash except most Metz devices.


Then I told them the world was ready for a ringflash
meant to fill in at very close range for wedding/event
shooters. made very clear that this ringflash must
work on the most frequently used lenses in these
genres, all with 77mm filter thread.

Took them two years, and then they produced the
MS-15 light. With 72mm filter thread.

You lose when you go to a gunfight with a toothpick.

German wages were not the problem, their product
portfolio failed big time.

What flash do you have (other than their old handlemounts do you have?) I've had the 50 series flashes, 70 series flashes, etc and they all had manual power settings just like Canon flashes... Even the cheaper 54mz went from 1/1 to 1/256

 

[Marsu42]

You lose when you go to a gunfight with a toothpick. German wages were not the problem, their product
portfolio failed big time.

I'm no expert on Metz flashes, but looking at former german companies that were driven out of the market by foreign competition this sounds reasonable. Germany engineers pride(d) themselves to build sturdy, high quality products - but tend(ed) to ignore customer's wishes if they didn't square with their ideas.

One example is that german car companies refused to add conveniences like cup holders to their cars for the simple reason that such a gadget isn't worthy of being included. Only after having severe issues selling their cars in the US they changed their policy.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Very sad day for a strobist. One of the best makers of alternative speedlites is going under.

All demise reports on German online news only referred to them as a manufacturer of tv sets. Since Metz obviously didn't even manage to promote what they're manufacturing at all, the bankruptcy is no surprise :-\

For those who aren't intimate with German law: The current state of affairs doesn't mean the end of Metz, but simply states that they cannot pay their bills. Now an appointed expert will have a look what can be salvaged - so the flashes might very well be continued if they are expected to be profitable sooner or later (again).

Yes, its a lot like US Chapter 11, the company will re-organize and emerge again to have another try at it. This is just another example of the pains that photo equipment companies are having.

 

[Hannes]

I never bought third party strobes for Canon. Price difference for Metz strobes vs. Canon speedlites was not good enough for me to take any compatibility risks with reverse engineered third party gear. ETTL II in itself is complicated and finicky enough to avoid any additional source of problems.

Actually, afaik metz (and nissin) don't reverse engineer but licence the ettl protocol from canon which would be a reason they are more expensive as well.

As for Chinese labour, it is now getting expensive to produce over there. I know of several smaller manufacturers in the outdoor industry that are thinking of moving their production back to Europe. It would cost virtually the same but cut lead time by months. In the coming years I expect a lot of production to start shifting to south America and the stable bits of Africa like SA.

 

[Bennymiata]

My Dad used Metz's in the 50's and 60's, but I've never owned one.
They'll probably close the TV division and keep the rest of the business going, hopefully.

 

[Maximilian]

I never bought third party strobes for Canon. Price difference for Metz strobes vs. Canon speedlites was not good enough for me to take any compatibility risks with reverse engineered third party gear. ETTL II in itself is complicated and finicky enough to avoid any additional source of problems.

Actually, afaik metz (and nissin) don't reverse engineer but licence the ettl protocol from canon which would be a reason they are more expensive as well.

As for Chinese labour, it is now getting expensive to produce over there. I know of several smaller manufacturers in the outdoor industry that are thinking of moving their production back to Europe. It would cost virtually the same but cut lead time by months. In the coming years I expect a lot of production to start shifting to south America and the stable bits of Africa like SA.

Hello Hannes!

Please be a little bit more careful when inserting a quote.
Surely not on purpose, but you made a quote from AvTvM and by erasing the wrong lines made it a statement said by me, which is definetly wrong and in other cases can cause trouble for me and others.

Thank you very much, hannes, to be aware of this in the future.

Yours,
Maximilian

PS.: It'll be best to use the preview function to check, if it's okay.

 

[Bernd Stuht]

My Dad an me myself used Metz Flashes in the 80s - this Flashes still work´s perfekt.
Because i was much younger, and not that much Headroom in spending Money - i´ve got only an
32CT3 with SCA311 Adapter for A-TTL with the T90 ( and an 300TL for sure 8) ) .

I am still using the Flash on my Powershot G2 - M-Mode and Sensor from the Metz ( 3 Levels ) .

Also it is still useable on DSLR for general Purposes - but no Adapter for E-TTL.

If Metz would have an Speedlite included the Slavemode via Canon´s RT System it would be
interessting for me - i search for an small Speedlite for walkaround and also for additional "Lightpoint´s"
in Multiflashsetup´s - but an 3rd 600RT ist on the Way to me ;D .

Metz was used often as a Flash in Germany, TV´s really not often seen .

But as written above, if we want to support Metz, we have to buy new one´s - but i don´t see an Metz
that matches my Wishes ?

An Hotshoeflash with E-TTL, small, aviable to bounce, any Kind of second small direct Light - or any Kind of CatchLight.
Included RT - Nice...

Second wish could be - an real powerfull Flash like the Old CT60 - the actual Flashes does not have that much Power.
An 600 EX-RT does not have 60 as a Guide Number, the Guide Number is definded as Reach using ISO100 an
Areal lighted for an 35mm Lens @ f1.0 - not for 200mm Focal : . Ok, i am old Scool ;D .

Just my 2ct´s .

OOT: German Taxes are an real Problem, actually some German Companys dont pay that much Attention on Quality because of the Cost´s, but this is the wrong Way - i suggest .

Greetings

Bernd

 

[Marsu42]

Please be a little bit more careful when inserting a quote. Surely not on purpose, but you made a quote from AvTvM and by erasing the wrong lines made it a statement said by me, which is definetly wrong and in other cases can cause trouble for me and others.

With that kind of sensitive attitude, make sure to never look at any dynamic range or camera rumor thread ... no, really, I'm happy at least some people around here try to have a civilized conversation.

Metz was used often as a Flash in Germany, TV´s really not often seen .

But my whole childhood, I was sitting in front of a Metz tv set, that certainly leaves you with some memories :-o ... of wasted time watching god knows how many mediocre u.s. series :->

Actually, afaik metz (and nissin) don't reverse engineer but licence the ettl protocol from canon which would be a reason they are more expensive as well.

It would be even more interesting to know how many € go to Canon from any sold flash (or lens with licensed protocol) ...

As for Chinese labour, it is now getting expensive to produce over there.

... and it's getting cheaper around Europe, global competition means the end of the decadent society or (quoting a former prominent German politician) . But I imagine the main lever would be indeed faster reaction to a changing market, I hear with 3d printing the same might happen to small plastic parts.

In the coming years I expect a lot of production to start shifting to south America and the stable bits of Africa like SA.

Interesting again, thanks for the information. Thing is that you never really know - as soon as the parts are assembled on location, there's no "made in Columbia" sticker on it. Its tough even sitting in a comfy armchair, but let's face it - us having access to all these latest, cheap electronics is no welfare program.

 

[Maximilian]

Please be a little bit more careful when inserting a quote. Surely not on purpose, but you made a quote from AvTvM and by erasing the wrong lines made it a statement said by me, which is definetly wrong and in other cases can cause trouble for me and others.

With that kind of sensitive attitude, make sure to never look at any dynamic range or camera rumor thread ... no, really, I'm happy at least some people around here try to have a civilized conversation.

Hi Marsu!
Maybe I get you wrong here because something got lost in translation (we could switch to German ), but I thought I was very polite and kind in correcting something I didn't say/post. (Maybe I'm too "German" on things like that)
To make it clear: I didn't want to accuse or expose Hannes! If he reads it this way, I apologize. But I think in other threads (as you pointed out) with other people this could lead to annoyance.

 

[Marsu42]

Please be a little bit more careful when inserting a quote. Surely not on purpose, but you made a quote from AvTvM and by erasing the wrong lines made it a statement said by me, which is definetly wrong and in other cases can cause trouble for me and others.

With that kind of sensitive attitude, make sure to never look at any dynamic range or camera rumor thread ... no, really, I'm happy at least some people around here try to have a civilized conversation.

Hi Marsu!
Maybe I get you wrong here because something got lost in translation (we could switch to German ), but I thought I was very polite and kind in correcting something I didn't say/post. (Maybe I'm too "German" on things like that)
To make it clear: I didn't want to accuse or expose Hannes! If he reads it this way, I apologize. But I think in other threads (as you pointed out) with other people this could lead to annoyance.

No, now you mis-understood me - I think it's great you pointed out the problem in a very polite way. Its a nice difference to neighboring threads going along the line of "You're too stupid to use your camera" :-o

As for German: Being a bit lost in translation can result in a nicer conversation as people don't weigh words that much as with a native speaker, but ask if you've got it right as you just did. And I'd take a global English-writing community over a limited native photog forum any day.

 

[Maximilian]

No, now you mis-understood me - I think it's great you pointed out the problem in a very polite way.

Herzlichen Dank für die Klarstellung.

Gruß nach Berlin,
Maximilian

 

[Bernd Stuht]

Grüße aus Lübeck ;D

But we are in an international Forum : .

I´ve took a look on the Metz WebPage - found the 75er Flash - but only SCA and no HSS-Sync ?

Also found that SCA is still alive @ Metz, but the E-TTL Adapter seems not work with my 32CT3 :'( .

Nothing about RT-Controls - but i like RT with Flashes.

Slightly out of Topic - anyone knews an Remote Trigger for Canons RT - System, not on Cam, for any
Slave Flash - so i can use a Flash as a Slave triggered by 600 EX-RT / ST-E3RT ?


Greetings

Bernd

 

[justaCanonuser]

I have almost two dozen shoe mount flashes.
Used to have tons of Metz.

In 2006 I suggested they build a flash with manual
power settings exceeding their dated full/W/M range.

They answered that they don't see a market there.

Enter strobist.

Bang.

Today about EVERY flash has manual settings at
least in full stops from 1/1 down to 1/64, some
down to 1/128 or even 1/256.

Every flash except most Metz devices.

The Mecablitz AF 58-2 allows for those settings, so they seem to have changed that. There was another issue with their flagship flash (then, now their new AF 64 is a real gun) I once stressed in a German user review: I wrote that their old fashioned menu interfaces will blow them away from any market if they don't change it. Those old school menus really suck because you get lost if you don't use the flash everyday, want to switch into a special mode and forgot to take the manual with you. That's really bad if a flash offers so many modes and is so well customizable like this AF 58 - it's a really wonderfully performing flash. Interestingly, they modernized their interface with their recent models, so obviously they were really under pressure to move.

Btw the recent Metz flash models, at least the more powerful ones, are fully compatible with the current Canon system. In contrast to AF performance of 3rd party lenses, compatibility here is no problem (including wireless master-slave modes). At least, I never experienced any issue, maybe a hardcore strobist may discover a more exotic one.