R5+RF100-500 vs D850+500 PF

AlanF

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It is indeed, though I think foxes are far from extinction. They do have much smaller snouts and are less intelligent in cities now though.
I was replying to your last point that you might grow to like birds in the future - their numbers are decreasing badly so photo them while you can.
 

Joules

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I think it depends on the ISO. Wildlife photography I don't think I am ever at the ISO that gives a monkeys if it is 14bit RAW or 12bit RAW.
You can check it out if you want:


From ISO 800 and upwards there is no difference between the regular mechanical, High speed and electronic. Before that, you lose some DR, but are still above 10 stops at ISO 100.

I don't think foxes are typically photographed against a bright sky, so this is not the most important point. And one should keep in mind that it's kinda apples to oranges, comparing the R5 12 / 20 FPS to the D850's 7 or 9.
 
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Codebunny

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You can check it out if you want:


From ISO 800 and upwards there is no difference between the regular mechanical, High speed and electronic. Before that, you lose some DR, but are still above 10 stops at ISO 100.

I don't think foxes are typically photographed against a bright sky, so this is not the most important point. And one should keep in mind that it's kinda apples to oranges, comparing the R5 12 / 20 FPS to the D850's 7 or 9.
We are only interested in pure IQ. Something like the R5 with the 100-500mm f/7.1 at ISO 8000 vs the D850 with the 500mm f/5.6 at ISO 6400. Does is the Canon sensor good enough to make up for the 2/3 light loss and can the zoom even keep up with the IQ of that wee prime?

I already know the R5 has better AF and more FPS. Those aren’t part of my decision making, that’ll come into it in a couple years when the RF and Z super tele come out. The prize to me would be a RF 200-400mm f/4.

Before all this mirrorless nonsense I had my heart set on a EF 200-400 and a 1DXII/III, the RF equivalents are now on the agenda, so for lack of a bette word, this body and lens will be disposable. I am even considering the F 200-500mm f/5.6 as something to get me by and just pump all that money into the R1+200-400/4 day one fund.
 
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tron

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To get 14 bit you have to be at 8fps. So it is apples to apples but yes I understand that if we are at lower DR territory like high ISO it has no meaning and R5 has the advantage. But think 12 fps not 20fps for moving targets if you want to avoid possible distortion. Regarding the iso difference 6400 to 8000 is 1/3 stop. 2/3s of a stop are 5000 vs 8000 or 6400 vs 10000 ISO. I think the most important at these minor differences is which handling suits the photographer the best. Both combinations will be satisfactory.I got my D850/D500 and 500mm PF before the new Canons (half a year) and I didn't regretted since I took some pictures I could have missed otherwise. So no rush to change. If I hadn't gotten the Nikon setup and If Canon R5 was introduced faster (and cheaper) I might go otherwise. Who knows. The rest of my equipment is Canon (5DIV, 5DsR and some big whites up to 500II).
 
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AlanF

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To get 14 bit you have to be at 8fps. So it is apples to apples but yes I understand that if we are at lower DR territory like high ISO it has no meaning and R5 has the advantage. But think 12 fps not 20fps for moving targets if you want to avoid possible distortion. Regarding the iso difference 6400 to 8000 is 1/3 stop. 2/3s of a stop are 5000 vs 8000 or 6400 vs 10000 ISO. I think the most important at these minor differences is which handling suits the photographer the best. Both combinations will be satisfactory.I got my D850/D500 and 500mm PF before the new Canon's (half a year) and I didn't regretted since I took some pictures I could have missed otherwise. So no rush to change. If I hadn't gotten the Nikon setup and If Canon R5 was introduced faster (and cheaper) I might go otherwise. Who knows. The rest of my equipment is Canon (5DIV, 5DsR and some big whites up to 500II).
I have the same equipment as you (apart from the 500II) and have no regrets about buying any of my gear as I have got so much joy from it. The bird photography got me through the Covid lock down. And, I do not feel I am limited by my gear as I can get very sharp shots near and far and difficult BIF, and the AF varies from great to incredible. If the R5 is better, then I'll enjoy that as well.
 
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AlanF

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Here is a sequence I got with the D500 and 500PF. I don't think I could have done this with 5DSR, and might have got it with the 5DIV, but without the detail of the images, but I think the R5 with eyeAF should be able do this with ease.
DSC_1298-DxO_longtailed_tit_flying_with_insect_vvs.jpg
DSC_1299-DxO_longtailed_tit_flying_with_insect_vvs.jpg
DSC_1300-DxO_longtailed_tit_flying_with_insect-lsss.jpg
DSC_1301-DxO_longtailed_tit_flying_with_insect_vvs.jpg
 
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docsmith

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Do you have the reference for the 12 bit at HS? I noticed the difference on PtoP, but did not realize that H+ mode dropped to 12 bit.

All that said, the DR of HS mode of the R5 at low ISO is either very similar to or better than the 5DIV at low ISO. So, worse than the R5 at lower frame rates, sure. But is it really a problem?
 

tron

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Do you have the reference for the 12 bit at HS? I noticed the difference on PtoP, but did not realize that H+ mode dropped to 12 bit.

All that said, the DR of HS mode of the R5 at low ISO is either very similar to or better than the 5DIV at low ISO. So, worse than the R5 at lower frame rates, sure. But is it really a problem?

Still Image Type
JPEG: 2 compression options RAW: RAW, C-RAW 14 bit (14-bit with Mechanical shutter and Electronic 1st Curtain, 13-bit A/D conversion with H+ mode, 12-bit A/D conversion with Electronic shutter, Canon original RAW 3rd edition) HEIF: 10bit HEIF is available in HDR shooting with [HDR PQ] set to [Enable] Complies with Exif 2.31 and Design rule for Camera File system 2.0 Complies with Digital Print Order Format [DPOF] Version 1.1
 
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Codebunny

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Some crackers there AlanF, one of the reasons the 500mm PF appeals more than the RF 100-500 is that I can put it on a D500 with a 1.4x converter and get a boat out to the May Island from Crail(home) or Anstruther and photograph those bird things I don't care too much for, in this case the island has a good puffin population.
 
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AlanF

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Some crackers there AlanF, one of the reasons the 500mm PF appeals more than the RF 100-500 is that I can put it on a D500 with a 1.4x converter and get a boat out to the May Island from Crail(home) or Anstruther and photograph those bird things I don't care too much for, in this case the island has a good puffin population.
Don't mention Puffins - Covid cancelled my Puffin trip for this year, and it hurts - but Covid would have hurt more. The R5 gets more and more hypothetical: my local dealer's estimate of delivery has gone from the end of August, to some time in September to now "maybe" October. We have to live for the present as well as the future so TG I have good enough gear.
 
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Codebunny

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Don't mention Puffins - Covid cancelled my Puffin trip for this year, and it hurts - but Covid would have hurt more. The R5 gets more and more hypothetical: my local dealer's estimate of delivery has gone from the end of August, to some time in September to now "maybe" October. We have to live for the present as well as the future so TG I have good enough gear.
https://www.nature.scot/enjoying-ou...es/isle-may-nnr/isle-may-nnr-visiting-reserve perhaps next year, the Isle of May is a great place for it. Though I haven't been out since I was a kid, when you could take your rod down to the harbour as a 10 year old and ask pretty much any fishing boat if they have room for you.
 
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snappy604

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Don't wait too long - I've just been watching David Attenborough's new programme about extinction, and it's too scary.
the massive fires on the west coast, earlier in austrailia and other places really hit home on that. :(
 

Codebunny

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Sep 5, 2018
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Heres one off my first pictures testing the 500mm f/5.6 PF on my Nikon Z6. ISO 1400, 1/80. I mean it is a throw away image, but there is a lovey bit of detail. Bun friend here is usually about for test photos. I look forward to renting a R5 and 100-500 to see how it compares, but this lens feels really good. About as long as my 300 f/2.8 but not even close to the weight or girth.




image0.jpg
 
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Codebunny

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DSC_7432.jpg


Here is another from the 500mm. The images out of this lens and the Z6 are fab. Quite a few of my test shots have been ISO 10,000 or even 14,400 and not once have I wanted less focal length. So the RF 100-500 would be always extended and always giving me 2/3rd less light. I'll still need to try out a R5 and 100-500 but I think I am really wanting a prime lens in the f/5.6 or f/4 range. Basically it would just be spot on if Canon put out a RF 500 f/5.6.
 
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AlanF

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View attachment 192900

Here is another from the 500mm. The images out of this lens and the Z6 are fab. Quite a few of my test shots have been ISO 10,000 or even 14,400 and not once have I wanted less focus length. So the RF 100-500 would be always extended and always giving me 2/3rd less light. I'll still need to try out a R5 and 100-500 but I think I am really wanting a prime lens in the f/5.6 or f/4 range. Basically it would just be spot on if Canon put out a RF 500 f/5.6.
I have been managing very well indeed with just the prime - 500mm with an MFD of 3m is pretty versatile on FF. Just got the news from DPD that my R5 is on the way so I'll be able to post comparisons. Nikon has just reduced the price of the 500mm PF by £350!
 

Codebunny

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So a wee mid rental review: In the forest I miss f/2.8, in golden hour it is ISO 5000 to 10,000 and the Z6 treats this as nothing. Getting closer always helps, even offsetting higher ISO levels. I feel for many occasions I still want a f/4 and more focus length but never less. But I can make do with the f/5.6 and get some good subject isolation as long as I am getting a lot of animal in frame. The AF of the Z6 was fine for everything but super fast squirrel tracking. Never felt like I needed more pixels, just needed to get closer, more pixels don't isolate the subject more.

The R5 is not on the agenda until a f/5.6 or f/4 lens comes out. But I might buy one anyway for the 70-200 as my second body with this 500 on my Z6 until Canon has a lens I want. Eye AF would not have saved any of my missed pictures, I missed some shots because I was slow not the camera.