Recommend first slr
- Thread starter Synkka
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Marsu42 said:
"Glass first" mantra doesn't work for everyone. I regret that I didn't start with a FF and 50/1.8, although my budget wasn't $800. If I had to start now, with a crop, I would get the one and only Sigma 18-35/1.8 ART, but it alone costs $800 new. So, sometimes it's not "glass first", but "how much can you justify spending on it".
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Marsu42 said:
I like the 50mm more than you, but when I first got it I was ignorant and a little stupid. I shot everything at f1.8 and I didn't know it was soft until you get to f2.8 or so. I think having someone to tell the newb the limitations of their gear will help a ton.
The 50 @f2.8 was my favorite lens over the kit and the 55-250mm. The image quality and the thinner dof was huge in comparison... But for a crop, 35mm is more manageable.
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Keep it simple.
I suggest a Canon T3i or a Pentax K-3 or K-5 IIs, a single prime lens in the so called 'standard' range of 35, 40 or 50mm. No need for a beginner to use faster than f1.8.
Both brands include a pop up flash, with a little experience, upgrade to off camera flash.
Just looked at B&H prices, yikes, Pentax lenses are higher than I expected. Pentax 40mm pancake is ~ USD $550, Canon's is only USD $200.
I suggest a Canon T3i or a Pentax K-3 or K-5 IIs, a single prime lens in the so called 'standard' range of 35, 40 or 50mm. No need for a beginner to use faster than f1.8.
Both brands include a pop up flash, with a little experience, upgrade to off camera flash.
Just looked at B&H prices, yikes, Pentax lenses are higher than I expected. Pentax 40mm pancake is ~ USD $550, Canon's is only USD $200.
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Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mirrorless Micro Four Thirds Digital Camera with 14-42mm Lens. $749.00 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1026114-REG/olympus_v207021su000_om_d_e_m10_mirrorless_micro.html
Here's Pekka Potka's preview http://www.pekkapotka.com/journal/2014/1/29/olympus-om-d-e-m10-hands-on-preview.html
Here's Pekka Potka's preview http://www.pekkapotka.com/journal/2014/1/29/olympus-om-d-e-m10-hands-on-preview.html
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Thank you everyone for some great advice. It's interesting dealing with someone new to slr cameras. Their first thoughts are one lens with a big zoom range, because they don't want to change lenses. It's hard to impress on them that changing the lenses is where the fun really begins with an slr!
I am leaning towards the 600d or 700d (t3, t5i) and kit 18-55 and a prime. I think a prime is very important to learn photography.
I am very interested in the d3300 too, the image quality looks very good I will need to do some comparisons.
I will look at the Pentax, Olympus, sony models but I am not as comfortable with those brands compared to canon and Nikon.
I am leaning towards the 600d or 700d (t3, t5i) and kit 18-55 and a prime. I think a prime is very important to learn photography.
I am very interested in the d3300 too, the image quality looks very good I will need to do some comparisons.
I will look at the Pentax, Olympus, sony models but I am not as comfortable with those brands compared to canon and Nikon.
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tolusina said:
My only issue with the pop up flash is that we all agree that flash directly over the lens without any kind of diffuser (and even with a diffuser) looks pretty awful.
so the cheaper the body, but with a decent ettl speedlite (while bouncing) is a significant improvement... or using a wide aperture prime.
Using an SLR is to get away from images that resemble point and shoot or camera phone images.
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Synkka said:
Agreed... tonight I'm going to go and shoot a high school hockey game for shits and gigs...
I'm taking an 85L mkii, a 70-200mm f/2.8L is mkii, and a 24-105mm f/4L is... and I imagine each and every lens will serve it's purpose tonight.
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Synkka said:
Why's that? Because it has low light capability and thinner dof? Or because it limits your options and forces you to zoom with your feet? If the latter, a bit of superglue on the kit zoom ring will do the same job.
With primes, imho it's important to be sure the actual person in question enjoys it. It's all to easy to prescribe it to beginners with good intentions and a view out of hindsight, while most of us started with zooms which are one of the main benefits of modern photography like IS.
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Marsu42 said:
I agree. Most people starting out are not pixel peepers, they want something that they can use and have fun with. Learning the fundamentals of photography can come later, when people realise photography is even more fun if they really understand what they are doing.
I started out with a 500D and (I whisper this quietly) a Canon 17 - 200 mm. It was a versatile combination and helped me to have a go at photographing lots of different things and learning about how to use different focal lengths for different effects. I would have become very frustrated very quickly with a single prime, and zooming with one's feet is not always a sensible option (I have photographed in situations where a zoom was a lot safer than stepping off a cliff edge). I added a 50 mm f1.8 because it was cheap and good for low light (I still have it and use it).
Now I have a 5D Mk III and L lenses, but I am glad I started out as I did.
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I think a Canon T3i/EOS 600D with EF-S 17-55 as a first DSLR/lens combo with family photos in mind would be a good option. I've actually had this combo up until a month ago but sold the T3i in anticipation of getting a 7D Mark II. Might put your friend a little over budget just depends on if they buy new or refurbished.
Synkka said:
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slclick said:
I loved my 50mm f/1.8... and I wanted to love the 50mm f/1.4... but I didn't... it was as good... maybe better... but I didn't like it that much especially with the 80mm crop field of view.
I think a 30 or 35 is more tolerable... I think having a prime is worth having initially... it helps to figure out whether you like think dof, bokeh, and image quality... and low light...
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If I had to start with photography again I would buy a 650D/700D or 100D because of the price and ease of use and a good manual focus lens. I think it's the best way to learn the art of photography. However I guess not many would do that.
He can't go wrong with the canon 50 1.8 because of the low price, wide aperture and I guess the optical quality is pretty good as well. 50mm on a crop is very good for portraits. Since he wants to take family photos it seams to me to be a very good choice.
To make sure that he spends his money on the right lenses you could lend him one for some time. This way he could figure out what focal lengths he likes the most.
He can't go wrong with the canon 50 1.8 because of the low price, wide aperture and I guess the optical quality is pretty good as well. 50mm on a crop is very good for portraits. Since he wants to take family photos it seams to me to be a very good choice.
To make sure that he spends his money on the right lenses you could lend him one for some time. This way he could figure out what focal lengths he likes the most.
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AcutancePhotography said:
I have considered a Pentax weather sealed system several times over the last couple years.
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jdramirez said:
Ditto. That is why I like my EF 28mm f/1.8 USM prime so much. It works great on both crop and full frame.
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RustyTheGeek said:
I am still not totally convinced that I did not make a mistake not getting the K3 when I was able to rebuild my system.
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AcutancePhotography said:
I was in the same situation, and the only thing that kept me with Canon is Magic Lantern - now I can really tell my camera what to do. But if you don't want to get into C coding for DryOS, Pentax has excellent value and the good build quality surely make them a lot of fun and maximum bang for the buck.
jdramirez said:
I'm probably more verbal about the 50/1.8 than it deserves. However, I feel with this old-school af motor and the fact that it basically consists of two pieces of glass actually makes it overpriced. If at all, this should be produced by Yongnuo or the like, but even they have the good sense at least to copy the 50/1.4.
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I bought a SL-1 just for my new "pole-cam" and was stunned with it's image quality. It's not a "perfect" body, but it's feather weight and image performance shouldn't be ignored. It is not a good high speed action camera, but really good for anything else where you have good lighting.
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If you are starting out in Digital photography I would not buy a Rebel series camera. A Canon 60D refurbished body can be had very cheap at times and gives you a larger and more solid platform with larger controls. I bought a Canon 60D from Canon for $431 a few months ago. They were selling for $450 just a week ago. The alloy frame and moderate weather sealing will keep the dust out better than a Rebel series body. My next advice is to avoid the kit lenses and jump into a prime lens. Kit lenses are only good for one thing, to teach you to not buy a kit lens again. If you want a zoom then save up for an “L” grade Canon Zoom. The 50mm 1.4 or the 35mm 2.0 with IS are good first choices for a Canon prime. If you buy good glass from the beginning you will have it forever. Kit lenses are a dime a dozen on EBay from people who learned the hard way about lens speed and quality. Remember, the quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten. Good equipment will keep your satisfaction high and a camera in your hand instead of in a closet.
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