I post too Much on Here!!
- Jul 21, 2010
The difference is that developing software is really expensive.
As much as my instinctive reaction is to be unimpressed by the distortion before software correction, I take your point. And I suspect Canon would say it is just using computation photography and ask why people are criticsing it for that when people tend to praise mobile phone manufactureres for what mobile phone cameras can achieve these days using computational photography,Why do I get the feeling that people on this forum would rather have a non-corrected and very distorted image in the EVF, and a non-corrected and very distorted photo rather than a non-distorted, sharp, excellent quality photo that this lens delivers with auto corrections turned on. I have been using a similarly auto-corrected pro level 12-100 Olympus lens for years and I never give the auto-corrections a second thought. I probably have other new mirrorless lenses that have the same auto-corrections and I don't even know about it. Apparently the final image isn't as important to many forum users compared to how you get there.
Adobe and Canon have very much had an on/off relationship for years. It seems that is the norm for Adobe and their corporate fellows.I don't buy that for a second. Adobe is the 800lb gorilla of software and I'm sure Canon has a close and positive working relationship with Adobe. Canon has much more to lose by not cooperating with Adobe than Adobe has. Canon knows that DPP is just a gnat on the windshield of processing software and has no interest or financial reason to jeopardize their relationship with Adobe for the sake of DPP.
As much as my instinctive reaction is to be unimpressed by the distortion before software correction, I take your point. And I suspect Canon would say it is just using computation photography and ask why people are criticsing it for that when people tend to praise mobile phone manufactureres for what mobile phone cameras can achieve these days using computational photography,
As I think someone else has already said, perhaps the real issue may not be that Canon is using software to work around limitations of its gear, or (at least arguably) to achive its gear (eg by making it smaller and lighter than it would be otherwise, or enabliing it to go to a wider angle than it would otherwise), but the prices Canon is charging. Then again, if enough people buy the gear at Canon's asking price, you can't really criticise Canon for not pricing lower (they are in it for the money, after all!). Personally I do struggle with why people are willing to pay Canon's asking price for a lot of the R system gear, but it seems quite a few people are.
Understandable viewpoints jd7. For years, I waited long periods for reviews on new products and the price to come down to a level I thought justified a purchase. Yes, in other words, I was a tightwad and had plenty of time, IMO, to wait it out. Many things in life are a matter of personal belief, opinions, budget constraints, wants, needs, timing, motivation, influences, etc. Now, at age 76, as long as I can afford it, I overlook my prior purchasing hang ups. I do agree that almost all new Canon gear is overpriced when first released, not just the RF 14-35mm F4L lens and think that it should have been priced around $13-1400.00. In the meantime, I no longer own any wide angle EF zoom lenses, such as the EF 16-35 F4 L is and am in need of some form of wide angle zoom. Now preferring native mount lenses, whenever possible, I buy RF, knowing that's where most of Canon's R&D is going. If people waited to buy new gear until the reviews were mostly positive and prices were in bargain territory, hardly anyone would have initially bought R5's and R6's, in the face of all the vitriol surrounding both cameras. Thank goodness, most overlooked the overwhelming negative publicity and decided to find out for themselves, paying MSRP and happy to get their new gear. Now, most everyone will agree, even the naysayers, that both bodies provide an outstanding photographic experience, even up against Sony's A1 body. So, bucking all the ongoing neg commentary on the new RF 14-35, I can afford its overpricing and have it on pre-order and will make my own decisions after hands on experience with it. If that is enabling Canon to overcharge for future gear, then so be it. How else does anyone expect Mfgs to recover their start up costs, both R&D, as well as Mfg costs and continue to develop new products. If the lens provides me with greater positive photo experiences, then I will not care what I paid for it. If all the naysayers are correct and the lens just sucks, I'll just sell it and move on to something else. Generally, it's pretty easy to re-sell new Canon gear. Just look at how many people have sold their much maligned R5's, R6's, RF28-70's, etc., shortly after being released, for more than MSRP. Thank goodness for early adopters. It took me a few years to realize they are the direct reason we see new gear coming down the pipe. Personally, I thank them rather than questioning why they bought it and/or paid too much.Then again, if enough people buy the gear at Canon's asking price, you can't really criticise Canon for not pricing lower (they are in it for the money, after all!). Personally I do struggle with why people are willing to pay Canon's asking price for a lot of the R system gear, but it seems quite a few people are.
Canon do actually produce a small but expanding range of budget lenses in RF mount, e.g. 35mm F1.8 macro, 50mm F1.8, 85mm F2 macro, 24-105mm F4-7.1, 600mm F11, 800mm F11, 24-240mm F4-6.3. All of these have had good reviews. I own the 800mm F11 and a friend has the 600mm F11, which both open up new fields of photography for those on a tight budget.Personally I do struggle with why people are willing to pay Canon's asking price for a lot of the R system gear, but it seems quite a few people are.
I see this complaint a lot. It makes me wonder if you’ve used an RF lens or not. There is no mistaking what the zoom ring is on any of these lenses because it’s nicely contoured. However, the manual focus ring is VERY hard to find and I will occasionally have to take my eye off the EVF to make sure I’m holding the right spot.I really wish Canon hadn't put the zoom and focus rings so close together on this and some other RF lenses - it's so easy to accidentally grab hold of the wrong one when the camera is at the eye, especially as the rubber rings are so similar in texture and feel.
Of course, Canon can't just go back to the drawing board and redesign them now - it's too late for that. But a small step in the right direction would be to radically change the texture/ribbing of the zoom ring, to make it easier to distinguish it by feel, from the focus ring...
I don't lie. Check my gearlist. Furthermore the fact that you've noted that this is a common complaint adds weight to the points I made. Why would someone who owns one of these lenses complain, unless there was a genuine reason???I see this complaint a lot. It makes me wonder if you’ve used an RF lens or not. There is no mistaking what the zoom ring is on any of these lenses because it’s nicely contoured. However, the manual focus ring is VERY hard to find and I will occasionally have to take my eye off the EVF to make sure I’m holding the right spot.
Personally, I would not call the 35mm F1.8 macro or 85mm F2 macro "budget" lenses, even if they are much cheaper than an L series lens. The 35mm goes for over A$700, and the 85mm for over A$1,000. Further, I don't think they look good value when you put them up against lenses like the Sony 35mm f/1.8, Samyang 35mm f/1.8, Nikon Z 35mm f/1.8 S (although admittedly the Nikon is a higher price bracket), Sony 85mm f/1.8, Samyang 75mm f/1.8, Samyang 85mm f/1.4 and Nikon Z 85mm f/1.8 S, and I'd even throw in the old EF 85mm f/1.8). From everything I have seen and read, I would rate the two Canon RF lenses to be the weakest lenses of that group (optically and at the weak end for AF), with the possible exception of the EF 85mm f/1.8 although I still think it's possible I prefer the images it produces over the RF 85mm f/2 IS even if the RF lens is sharper. I also wouldn't call the RF 85mm f/2 IS small or light for what it is. I guess to be fair though, the Canon lenses are the only ones in that group with IS, and no doubt their close focus ability will be useful to some people.Canon do actually produce a small but expanding range of budget lenses in RF mount, e.g. 35mm F1.8 macro, 50mm F1.8, 85mm F2 macro, 24-105mm F4-7.1, 600mm F11, 800mm F11, 24-240mm F4-6.3. All of these have had good reviews. I own the 800mm F11 and a friend has the 600mm F11, which both open up new fields of photography for those on a tight budget.
Each lens purchase needs to be considered on its own merit. Sometimes it's better to splash out on the RF exotica, other times it's better to go for the budget RF optic, or to get an EF version and use it with the EF-RF adaptor. Ergonomically, the EF lenses are actually better designs, because their RF replacements have the focus and zoom rings too close together and use the same texture of rubber, making it difficult to distinguish between the zoom and focus rings by feel, when the camera is at the eye.
I currently own an EF 100mm F2.8L macro, and have considered the new RF version, but I don't think the 1.4x magnification or the aspherical control are worth the extra expense. My EF lens is now 10 years old, very heavily used and suffering from intermittent problems with AF and OIS, so it's due for replacement. But I'm more likely to buy the non-L 85mm macro, which is optically excellent, or to get another EF 100mm F2.8L macro, than to spend £1500 on the RF 100mm macro.
So I was reading through reviews of RF lenses from The Digital Picture and happened to come across one review where he quoted Canon technical advisor Rudy Winston...I'm sure Canon has a close and positive working relationship with Adobe...
Rudy Winston via The Digital Picture said:I’m told that Canon worked aggressively with Adobe to be sure to have the right profiles available to customers using Lightroom or ACR as soon as possible.
Ah, that must be why Adobe still has no Camera Matching profiles for anything newer than the original R.Not to beat a dead horse too much, but some questioned my assertion that Canon and Adobe work hand-in-hand.
So I was reading through reviews of RF lenses from The Digital Picture and happened to come across one review where he quoted Canon technical advisor Rudy Winston
Hi, I was using the term "budget" loosely, to indicate that they are much cheaper alternative to the Canon L series, but I agree that none of Canon's lenses are exactly cheap.Anyway, all of that to say that I struggle to see that Canon's "budget" RF lenses, and particularly the lenses which seem to me to be most likely to be useful to a large number of photographers, namely the 35mm F1.8 macro, 50mm F1.8, 85mm F2 macro, are great value. They are part of the reason that, personally, I don't see good value in the RF system.
End of it all it comes down to price. Close to 2k is steep… really steep. If this lens was priced closer to the original 16-35 then I think there would be less issues for people. when the price of A product goes as high as this one we inevitability start to ask ourselves why….1) Good job reenforcing Canon's customer-unfriendly design practices and rewarding them for their marketing rather than their actual products. You are why we're having to have these conversations at all. Stop giving companies money until you know that they've actually delivered.
2) Tamron's 17-35mm f/2.8-4 is lighter and smaller than this, also uses a 77mm filter thread, and at least going by Bryan's results of this 14-35, the Tamron is optically better in the center and only very slightly worse in the furthest corners. The f/2.8 wide end is a bit soft but you can consider that aperture to just be a bonus, since the Canon lenses don't have it at all; stop it down to f/4 or beyond and the Tamron sharpens up significantly. (Or at least my copy did.) I've owned the Tamron, it wasn't my favourite wide-zoom by any means, but if size is important to you then it is your winner and optically it's very good. I did prefer the optics of the Canon 16-35mm f/4 and that's ultimately what I stuck with, but I appreciate not everyone wants to carry something that size around (and it is only size, not weight; the EF lens is only 80G heavier than this RF and only 150g heavier than the Tamron!) and/or pay that much.
However you spin it, however you want to try to justify it to yourself, you know that you've paid a gigantic, arbitrary premium, twice, for the sake of saving 80g (180g, if we're including the adapter), about ~1.5cm in length, and a clearly-flawed extra 2mm which is being completed via software rather than the glass you've ostensibly paid for. This is the problem—you are part of it—and this is what manufacturers (it's not Canon alone) need to not be rewarded for.